Prox-N vs Generic Brand Prox-N

[Jacob]

The ingreds are exactly the same- in both NANO and Prox. I mean the generic and original of each product. See my previous posts on this. This "bargain" talk just seems to be another sales tactic. Maybe I'm more gullible..but if I was told one was a "lite" version, I'd be buying the more expensive product thinking it's more powerful. As I said before..this hair loss isn't an easy thing to treat.

See who can answer this question. Who posted this: "If Proxiphen really is "unquestionably more effective than Propecia alone", it would obviously be something the original poster could try. " in another forum just...w/out specifically being asked about it or anything?

 

[smitysmity]

The ingreds are exactly the same- in both NANO and Prox. I mean the generic and original of each product. See my previous posts on this. This "bargain" talk just seems to be another sales tactic. Maybe I'm more gullible..but if I was told one was a "lite" version, I'd be buying the more expensive product thinking it's more powerful. As I said before..this hair loss isn't an easy thing to treat.

See who can answer this question. Who posted this: "If Proxiphen really is "unquestionably more effective than Propecia alone", it would obviously be something the original poster could try. " in another forum just...w/out specifically being asked about it or anything?

I understand but would you end up spending more than double a year on a "full" version which hasn't given tremendous results to begin with even if it's not about money? The full version essentially would cost me the same price RU58841 would cost per year but I desperately need RU and I'm not so sure I need Prox-N.

I myself have dealt with a basic and premium version before and to be honest, the premium version to me is more of a "talk" to get people to buy something thinking it's better when it's not that much better if any at all. By creating a "lite" version his intentions are to show he has a good product to get people to continue to spend so he can control the market share. Having an expensive product only turns the majority away. However, if his lite version is so weak that it isn't effective, then nobody is going to buy his lite version or his expensive version because most people probably start off with the lite version.

 

[Jacob]

Well you kind of said it all at the end there. The stuff has been around for over a decade...

 

[Bryan]

Dr. Proctor himself has said that the generic version is probably a better deal for the money. I think that says a lot.

 

[Jacob]

It does. It says he's full of it. And a good salesman. But just look at the response smitysmity got from him..and what Dr. P wouldn't tell him. Hmmm..maybe he's a bit scared of the FDA after all.

BTW..that above quote was from Bryan.

 

[blaze]

There is a definite difference between the 2.

I have used both, here are my observations:

Proctors Prox-N - Always turns an amber color and has a stronger smell.

Prox-N Lite: Never turns amber and stays clear. Also at the bottom of both bottles there were rock like formations. Clearly ingredients had precipitated. When I shook the bottle I could hear rattling.

I would never use Prox-N lite again. Proctors Prox-N never had rocks at the bottom. I did ask proctor about it but I dont remember getting a very clear answer.

Either way if you want to use Prox-N I recommend Proctors stuff.

But I still think a 2.5% AHK-Cu the best SOD around with proven results. No one sells it though. You would have to buy powder and make your own. It is something I am considering doing.

 

[Bryan]

I have used both, here are my observations:

Proctors Prox-N - Always turns an amber color and has a stronger smell.

Prox-N Lite: Never turns amber and stays clear. Also at the bottom of both bottles there were rock like formations. Clearly ingredients had precipitated. When I shook the bottle I could hear rattling.

I would never use Prox-N lite again. Proctors Prox-N never had rocks at the bottom.

Huh??? You just got through saying that both bottles had rock-like formations! :dunno:

But I still think a 2.5% AHK-Cu the best SOD around with proven results. No one sells it though.

You mean, nobody besides Procyte? AHK-Cu is what's used in Tricomin.

By the way, AHK-Cu may well be the best copper-peptide SOD, but I think it's unlikely to be the best SOD in general. The "turbocharged" SODs that I've mentioned in the past probably have that distinction (TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN). Dr. Proctor appears to be more impressed with those, than he is with copper-peptides.

You would have to buy powder and make your own. It is something I am considering doing.

Good luck in finding someone else who could synthesize such a specific copper-peptide for you (besides Procyte).

 

[blaze]

I have used both, here are my observations:

Proctors Prox-N - Always turns an amber color and has a stronger smell.

Prox-N Lite: Never turns amber and stays clear. Also at the bottom of both bottles there were rock like formations. Clearly ingredients had precipitated. When I shook the bottle I could hear rattling.

I would never use Prox-N lite again. Proctors Prox-N never had rocks at the bottom.

Huh??? You just got through saying that both bottles had rock-like formations! :dunno:

But I still think a 2.5% AHK-Cu the best SOD around with proven results. No one sells it though.

You mean, nobody besides Procyte? AHK-Cu is what's used in Tricomin.

By the way, AHK-Cu may well be the best copper-peptide SOD, but I think it's unlikely to be the best SOD in general. The "turbocharged" SODs that I've mentioned in the past probably have that distinction (TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN). Dr. Proctor appears to be more impressed with those, than he is with copper-peptides.

You would have to buy powder and make your own. It is something I am considering doing.

Good luck in finding someone else who could synthesize such a specific copper-peptide for you (besides Procyte).

Where did I say both Prox-N's had rocks at the bottom? Read what I wrote again. I clearly said Prox-N lite did and Proctors version DID NOT.

(**edit: Sorry bryan I can now see why you may have thought I meant both bottles as in both versions. But thats why I put my reviews under separate headings. I meant both bottles of Prox-N Lite. I ordered 2. I said both because at first when I noticed rocks at the bottom I thought it may have been a dud bottle. But when I checked the second it was just the same. This NEVER happened with Procotrs version. And I have bought a few bottles of his over the years)

Yes, Tricomin does have AHK-Cu, I know this. But it doesnt even come close to having 2.5%, in fact I dont think it even has 0.5% hence the blue dye.

AHK-Cu at ~2% had better hair counts than minoxidil 2%. I have yet to see Prox-N even come close to that.

 

[smitysmity]

Everyone has different answers, it's crazy.

So many products out there, and yet none of them are clear #1 products.

 

[Jacob]

By the way, AHK-Cu may well be the best copper-peptide SOD, but I think it's unlikely to be the best SOD in general. The "turbocharged" SODs that I've mentioned in the past probably have that distinction (TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN). Dr. Proctor appears to be more impressed with those, than he is with copper-peptides.

Wow..he's more impressed with those? Do they happen to be in his products? :woot: Oh wait..smity couldn't get an answer on that.

 

[Bryan]

Yes, Tricomin does have AHK-Cu, I know this. But it doesnt even come close to having 2.5%, in fact I dont think it even has 0.5% hence the blue dye.

I think that's awfully speculative! I don't know why some people have been so obsessed with the "blue dye" in Tricomin over the years. :dunno:

The woman in the Procyte office said once a few years ago that the commercial product (Tricomin) was somewhere between the overall effectiveness of the 1.25% and 2.5% solutions used in the clinical trial, "but closer to the 2.5%".

 

[Bryan]

Wow..he's more impressed with those?

Yes.

Do they happen to be in his products? :woot: Oh wait..smity couldn't get an answer on that.

He's said in plain English that they're in both Prox-N and Proxiphen.

 

[Jacob]

Wow..he's more impressed with those?

Yes.

Do they happen to be in his products? :woot: Oh wait..smity couldn't get an answer on that.

He's said in plain English that they're in both Prox-N and Proxiphen.

He didn't say it to Smity. Nothing Dr. P says can be believed anymore anyway..although some of us have known for years that he's just been making up stuff. I think he's being a bit more careful what he says these days :whistle:

And again..wow..he's more impressed with something he supposedly has in his products. :woot:

 

[smitysmity]

I did e-mail him 2 days ago though asking for more information, no reply yet. We'll see but it seems like all types of solutions out there, no product is a clear #1 so you need to use a little bit of everything to see results but at the same time use it properly or it won't be efficient and may not even work.

 

[blaze]

Yes, Tricomin does have AHK-Cu, I know this. But it doesnt even come close to having 2.5%, in fact I dont think it even has 0.5% hence the blue dye.

I think that's awfully speculative! I don't know why some people have been so obsessed with the "blue dye" in Tricomin over the years. :dunno:

The woman in the Procyte office said once a few years ago that the commercial product (Tricomin) was somewhere between the overall effectiveness of the 1.25% and 2.5% solutions used in the clinical trial, "but closer to the 2.5%".

LMAO...I dont care what the woman told someone...she is lying. I heard you say you think Graftcyte Concentrated Spray has more copper peptides than Tricomin. Graftcyte has only 1% max GHK-Cu.

I used Tricomin for around a year and it did nothing. And my expectations were low.

I bet if I could get some AHK-Cu powder and make a 2.5% topical I would see a difference. I have NEVER seen anyone report regrowth in the neighbourhood of 2% minoxidil . I started off with minoxidil 2% and I got great results with it.

All I hear people saying is, yeah it makes my scalp feel cool and nice. Thats is just the menthol in the product.

 

[Jacob]

If the AHK-Cu powder is actually available..I'm sure a company such as Elsom Research could make a topical with it if enough are interested. Can't be cheap.

 

[Bryan]

LMAO...I dont care what the woman told someone...she is lying. I heard you say you think Graftcyte Concentrated Spray has more copper peptides than Tricomin. Graftcyte has only 1% max GHK-Cu.

How do you know that?

 

[blaze]

LMAO...I dont care what the woman told someone...she is lying. I heard you say you think Graftcyte Concentrated Spray has more copper peptides than Tricomin. Graftcyte has only 1% max GHK-Cu.

How do you know that?

Saline Solution Spray is used for post hair transplant care as Im sure you know. Standard Saline Solution is what is used and the concentraion of NaCI for that is 0.9%.

Saline Solution is just Sterile water with Sodium Chloride(0.9%). Its obvious what Graftcyte have done is use the standard Saline Solution which is used for post operative hair transplant care and added the proven wound healing Copper Tripeptide GHK-Cu. Which makes sense and should work better than just a standard saline solution alone.

Look at the ingredient list for Grafcytes Concentrated Spray:

Purified Water, Sodium Chloride, Prezatide Copper Acetate, Propylene Glycol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben

Again, as Im sure you know the order of ingredients is always most to least.

Sodium Chloride is second(which is 0.9%). Then comes GHK-Cu(Prezatide Copper Acetate). So at most the concentraion of GHK-Cu is 0.9%.

And even that amount is enough to make a nice stong natural blue without the aid of dyes. Dr Pickart has revealed that his GHK Serum uses 1%. The color of his serum is exactly the same as the Graftcyte Concentrated Spray.

I have looked around at various chemical companies that synthesize these Copper Tripeptides and the price for GHK-Cu and AHK-Cu is always very similar.

Tricomin has 6oz
Graftcyte has 6oz

Tricomin price: $47.90US(from right here at HairLossTalk.com)
Graftcyte price: $168.00US(pretty much as cheap as I could find)

Graftcyte costs roughly 3 times as much for ~1% GHK-Cu compared to Tricomin with *supposedly* ~2.5% AHK-Cu?!

Graftcyte: No blue dye
Tricomin: Blue dye

The evidence is pretty clear. Tricomin in the state that its in blows chunks.

PS. I also asked Dr Pickart, who is the inventor of the Copper Tripeptide, why blue dye would be used. He said, the only time someone would use blue dye when using the "blue copper peptides" was when so little of the peptide is being used, that it by itself cant create a nice, strong, natural blue color of its own.

 

[Bryan]

Its obvious what Graftcyte have done is...

Are you British?

Look at the ingredient list for Grafcytes Concentrated Spray:

Purified Water, Sodium Chloride, Prezatide Copper Acetate, Propylene Glycol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben

Again, as Im sure you know the order of ingredients is always most to least.

Sometimes (maybe usually), but not always. That's an issue that's been discussed on hairloss forums a number of times.

Sodium Chloride is second(which is 0.9%). Then comes GHK-Cu(Prezatide Copper Acetate). So at most the concentraion of GHK-Cu is 0.9%.

So you're also claiming that the amount of propylene glycol in Graftcyte is even LESS than 0.9%?

If that's the only way you're trying to make me believe that Graftcyte has less than 1% copper-peptide, I don't find it convincing. At all.

Graftcyte costs roughly 3 times as much for ~1% GHK-Cu compared to Tricomin with *supposedly* ~2.5% AHK-Cu?!

I don't believe your "~1% GHK-Cu" estimate for Graftcyte for a second, based on your previous argument. I imagine that the percentage of AHK-Cu in Tricomin is probably somewhere between 1% and 2%, based on what the Procyte person said (yeah, I know you think she was "lying"). Graftcyte is a lot more expensive that Tricomin because it's sold for a serious medical condition, and I'm pretty sure has undergone FDA approval for that condition. Major expenses do get passed-along to consumers, you know!

 

[blaze]

So you're also claiming that the amount of propylene glycol in Graftcyte is even LESS than 0.9%?

Yes bryan, I am. Because the propylene Glycol in Graftcyte is what the preservatives are dissolved in. I have bought preservative systems before and many of them come predissolved in propylene glycol. Like parabens, which are used in graftcyte.


What about this bryan:
Folligen Solution has 9.0 times more copper peptides per ounce than Concentrated Graftcyte® and 31.8 times more copper peptides per ounce than Tricomin® (Source - Evergreen Analytical Labs, Redmond, WA).

That would mean Folligen has 62% Copper Peptides, compared to tricomins ~2%(if it does contain that much)

Come on Bryan, you really think Folligen has 62% Copper Peptides? It would be thick and unusable. It already burns like hell.

Now if Graftcyte has 0.9% like I think it does, then do the math: 9*0.9 = 8.1%. That sounds a lot like what Folligen might have in regards to the strength of Copper Peptides used.

Lets do Tricomin now: 2%*31.8 = 63.6%!!! LMAO, no way does Folligen have 63.8% Copper Peptides.

Try this: 0.25% AHK-Cu in Trcomin * 31.8 = 7.95% Copper Peptides in Folligen. Again, sounds reasonable that Folligen would have around 8% CP's.

No way does Tricomin have 2-2.5% AHK-Cu.


***Again where are the results Bryan from real life users. Show me ONE person who can claim I got regrowth from tricomin like 2% minoxidil. I have perused these boards for years, and researched the posts since before my time here and never seen ONE. The reason is because tricomin doesnt even come close to containing the amount of AHK-Cu necessary to accomplish those results.

AHK-Cu is solid science with studies backing it. This isnt like rubbing vagina cream on your dome and hoping for the best. RESULTS ARE EXPECTED with 2.5% AHK-Cu. Unfortunately no one gets any from tricomin, and quite frankly it doesnt surprise me one bit.