Proof That Dht Is Only The Secondary Factor In male pattern baldness

[abcdefg]

How you know that testosterone does not contribute to male pattern baldness at all if both DHT and T are different strength androgens? Maybe im wrong but dont castrated men stop going bald completely?

 

[abcdefg]

I hope you guys figure it out, and I dont know enough to contribute anything of value here anyway. I just think your trying to put together a puzzle that is missing 3/4 of the pieces so I think your going to crash and burn to put it bluntly. I dont think anyone understands the immune system well enough to figure out hardly anything just a bunch of disjointed pieces.
GL though

 

[Killbaldness]

Thanks dude for this post,I respect the scientific thinking of yours,what you said really makes sense, I hope we can figure it out ASAP,and would you please tell me what did you use for your hairloss?because if the guy in the picture is you then this is tremendously amazing regrowth.

Thank you bro.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Furthermore, no matter how f*****g smart I am

Objective Fact: You overestimate your own intelligence.

 

[NewUser]

We report 20 prepubertal children with Androgenetic Alopecia, 12 girls and eight boys, age range 6-10 years, observed over the last 4 years. All had normal physical development. Clinical examination showed hair loss with thinning and widening of the central parting of the scalp, both in boys and girls. In eight cases frontal accentuation and breach of frontal hairline were also present. The clinical diagnosis was confirmed by pull test, trichogram and dermoscopy in all cases, and by scalp biopsy performed in six cases.

Hmm? Is the problem down to faulty hair follicles, or is Androgenetic Alopecia(and myriad other health disorders linked to it) more complex than "DHT sensitivity"?

 

[H]

Maybe the Tregs idea will be that last piece of the puzzle I really hope not though because it'll take them 30 years to confirm it 20 years to think about commercializing a product/therapy and another 20 to develope it. By then, I'll have called it a day.

 

[BTW]

hey OP you know that hormonal imbalances exist even in pre-pubescent kids, r-right?

 

[BTW]

"All had normal physical development" + "strong family predisposition to Androgenetic Alopecia"

6 year old girls pumping out enough testosterone to develop male pattern baldness, with out any other physical expression of testosterone or DHT??...

the study you quoted didn't check for androgen levels so we can't now
look I believe Androgenic Alopecia is an inherited immunological disorder in which sex hormones play a role in it, but you can't use the study you quoted to say sex hormones have no role in it because the study didn't measure them

Check
and
Mate!

 

[Jk1]

i

just on point 1, I have heard that despite what people say about the transplanted hair follicles, they too still miniturise.... have to find that quote..

also this would tie in with what I was saying about the horse shoe eventually miniturizing too, into a tiny little band, and eventually barely anything. A norwood 9. so it might not be that they are resistant, just more resistant.

i can tell after having 7000 fut in the frontal third and getting an amazing head of hair. that after 8 years of only using nizoral the transplanted hairs have drastically thinned ! maybe half as many or thick.. hence why i am back here ! so its the skin on the scalp thats the problem.. a toxic wasteland with inflammation and reduced blood and yes all head hair are susceptible. i think its definetly immune system related since those people got regrowth with some type of blood transfussion ! but also something to do with vitD and its receptor malfunctioning at top of head and reduceing growth and increasing inflammation.

 

[dr75]

In pattern baldness, the whole scalp is effected. Even the donor zone almost always thins out. It is just relatively more resistant to DHT. There was a study comparing back of the scalp hair of Androgenetic Alopecia patients to healthy controls. Donor hair has been found to be significantly thinner in balding men.

 

[NormanNorwood]

Come on maaan... "check mate" based on that rebuttal?? never...

I can't prove that point but I believe if you had too bet your life on it you would say "Those little 6 year old girls with androgenetic alopecia and otherwise normal physical develoment had ordinary endocrine status... Just like the women with male pattern baldness, and even the god damn men..."
Ok, Ok, I will give you STALE MATE on that one... (but stale mate is even generous for you, it was their predisposition not to regenerate the follicle clearly.)

what about all the other examples you TOTALLY IGNORED before you declared check mate??

balding guys who get castrated, or loaded with Dutasteride, not only don't regenerate, they lose hair progressively as well after initial cessation?

the babies with male pattern baldness in the other thread?

and all the other examples, scattered in these two threads?

But it doesn't even matter what you respond with now, you've already proven that you are in an absolute hurry to "close the case", because you had a single objection to one of my arguements... imagine that in court, "objection your honor"... "Sustained, case closed"... lol

the model of hairloss out there is based entirely on the eunuch observations from many, many decades ago now... and that theory is an oversimplified logical conclusion with many, many, flaws...

the model of hairloss I propose is based on is a simple logical construct as well, yet it accounts for all these anomalies in the original theory:

"The person predisposed to balding has a compromised ability to regenerate the hair follicle, combined with an inflammatory response to an otherwise essential hormone, possibly amongst other molecules and stresses.
This failure to regenerate accumulates over time resulting in the eventual male pattern baldness.
It is likely that there is one driver of this phenomenon which is responsible for the pervasive and distinct phenotype.
A probable candidate for the dual dysfunction listed prior is the immune system, based on a series of studies which genetically identify Jagged1 gene specifically in those predisposed to early onset alopecia, another study which identifies T-regs as follicle stem cell signalers, the immuno-deficient mouse study which regenerates the male pattern baldness follicle 400% in the presence of DHT, and a series of molecular studies identifiying the role of the immune system in generating Key growth factors such as IGF-1."

I like your theory, I found it very interesting to read. I'm not 100% sold but i'm also not 100% sold on the DHT theory either. My hairloss started the same time I kept getting very very sick. Kind of like my immune system went a bit awol. I'm still losing hair but at a slightly slower pace than before.

Giving the information you have provided though, what can we do? How can we up-regulate or down-regulate the hormones and processes required regarding hairloss?

I'm sorry, i'm not overally scientifically literate. I enjoy reading it but alot of it goes over my head.

 

[H]

In pattern baldness, the whole scalp is effected. Even the donor zone almost always thins out. It is just relatively more resistant to DHT. There was a study comparing back of the scalp hair of Androgenetic Alopecia patients to healthy controls. Donor hair has been found to be significantly thinner in balding men.

If this is all true not even hair multiplication can save us.

 

[H]

Ah don't panic it would take til you were over 100 years old to wear away the donor. It's about as resistant as the hair on top on the nonbalding mans head so it will get you to 100, lol.

View attachment 56452

Well I am kinda panicking. I'd like more of these higher resistant hair follicles on top of my head for a full mane before I reach 100.

 

[Armando Jose]

Also, you forget the role of adrenarche in pediatric Androgenetic Alopecia. Adrenarche starts before puberty around age 10, some children start to have oily face, acne, body odor. DHEA-S increases in adrenarche and it is a source for DHT in peripheral tissues.This is from that pediatric Androgenetic Alopecia study:

In my opinion DHT is present in scalp hairs years before puberty, in both sexes.

If it does turn out to be the Immune system driving this thing,

A good question is why Immune system affect only at certain hairs?

Why would the immune system discriminate which HF to attack?

+1

Why would the immune system discriminate against only scalp follicles?

+1

Topical emu oil

Interesting.....

so its the skin on the scalp thats the problem

Probably

There was a study comparing back of the scalp hair of Androgenetic Alopecia patients to healthy controls

Can you post a link?

the model of hairloss out there is based entirely on the eunuch observations from many, many decades ago now... and that theory is an oversimplified logical conclusion with many, many, flaws...

+1

 

[Armando Jose]

In pattern baldness, the whole scalp is effected. Even the donor zone almost always thins out. It is just relatively more resistant to DHT. There was a study comparing back of the scalp hair of Androgenetic Alopecia patients to healthy controls. Donor hair has been found to be significantly thinner in balding men.

Not in this case

 

[dr75]

Can you post a link?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25532463

Hair density and hair thickness of known nonbalding scalp regions showed some differences depending on the severity and the BASP subtypes in East Asian people with male pattern baldness.

This study divided subjects using BASP classification.

 

[Armando Jose]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25532463


This study divided subjects using BASP classification.

View attachment 56463

Thank you very much.

so this paper strentght my theory where people with less hair density and thinner hair are more prone to develope common baldness.
"
Differences in hair density and thickness were
observed in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia compared with
controls, even in nonbalding areas of the scalp."

 

[tylerduren]

Re read and still struggling to understand how this is a new treatment

 

[Nick1990]

Supplement all vitamins A, D, k2, E, B vitamins, vitamin C in relatively high dose,
Then the efa's in standard dose, gla and krill oil,
Minerals, magnesium spray on body, zinc, silica, bilberry for tin, selenium, and few others
Eh what else? ...low dose msm to start with, resveratrol and curcumin, co-enzyme q 10,
And there's more but I have to go to work now...

Also gym, NOFAP, fluoride filter, very good diet meat and veg mostly.
Topical emu oil, contrast hydrotherapy
That should get you started...

This is one thing which I have started fairly recently, ive tested my acid/alkaline balance and prior I was 4/5 acidic...

Recently bought a nutri ninja and eating extensive amounts of veg and a lot of fruit, nuts and meats. Minimal dairy, wheat and no snacks (sugar crisps etc) Eat the occasional nakd bar, and drink only water or ginger tea.

Only about a month in not noticed a great deal but testing my urine/saliva my body is at 7.5ph after eating healthily.

Plus I am on no fap and go gym 4 x a week.

Emu oil been using for years

 

[paleocapa89]

Not in this case

I was always baffled by the final stages of Androgenetic Alopecia where only the horseshoe remains. The edge of the hair is always one continuous curve like it was drawn. wasteland on one side and a hair on the other.