Proof That Dht Is Only The Secondary Factor In male pattern baldness

[NewUser]

I was always baffled by the final stages of Androgenetic Alopecia where only the horseshoe remains. The edge of the hair is always one continuous curve like it was drawn. wasteland on one side and a hair on the other.

If the number of 150k scalp hair follicles(blondes) is eventually halved by the time someone becomes Norwood 7, that leaves about 75K terminal hair producing scalp follicles. But that's only a 1.5% loss of the roughly 5 million total hairs on our bodies which DHT doesn't destroy. Why are just 1.5 % of them faulty hair follicles while the other 98.5% unaffected by DHT? In fact, we'd be missing a lot of body hair in the absence of DHT beginning at puberty.

 

[H]

We might as well all pitch in for lab equipment and solve this ourselves its not like well have trouble finding samples

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

But these avenues are being ignored because most people keep repeating "DHT=Baldness", Its absolutely f*****g retarded....

I agree that in the vast majority of cases DHT is needed for the progression of the condition

DHT is potentially offensive to ALL

You are contradicting yourself a bit but we do agree on one thing, DHT (and all androgenic stimulation really) are detrimental to everyones' scalp hair, even non balding peoples. I posted this in another thread a few days ago and quoting it for relevance:

Correct. The hairs on the back and sides are not completely immune, just highly resistant to the point that you won't live long enough for them experience Androgenetic Alopecia. There have been in vitro experiments where hair follicles taken from "immune" region are exposed to extremely high concentrations of DHT and they begin to miniaturize. This won't ever happen in vivo unless maybe some one was using extreme levels of DHT based steroids or something.

It has been said that all men, if they live long enough, will develope prostate cancer (not counting men who take finasteride/dutasteride). I would think the case for Androgenetic Alopecia in the safe zone would be similar. If our life expectancy was 200, you would probably see the horse shoe areas bald as well. Androgens are bad for all human scalp hair follicles. Even the middle aged norwood 0s, If they were to live long enough with high-normal concentrations of DHT exposure, they will probably start to bald as well given enough time (longer than our current lifespans).

So we agree on that but what I don't get is how you come to conclusion that DHT does not equal baldness? I understand your premise. That nonbalding individuals are more resistant/better able to repair the damage and regenerate but that is only in the short term. Given enough time (androgen exposure), even the "safe zone" of the most robust and Androgenetic Alopecia resistant NW0 will bald. DHT is doing damage even in the "non balding" so DHT really does equal baldness.

Deleting the androgen receptors from scalp hair follicles (like Swoop suggested) would be a cure for Androgenic Alopecia. This would stop the damage from being done.

However, it sounds like your approach is to allow the damage that DHT is doing to continue, but better equip the body to repair/regenerate faster than it occurs just like in non balding individuals. If this could be maintained indefinitely, this could be a potential cure as well (in fact, this type of "maintenance repair" approach is premise for much of anti aging work being done currently, allow the metabolism to do damage and repair said damage periodically rather than trying to alter metabolism).

Ideally, we will be able to do both. Stop the damage from being done and facilitate regeneration. This will be the true cure. Now how to implement......

 

[Trichosan]

I was always baffled by the final stages of Androgenetic Alopecia where only the horseshoe remains. The edge of the hair is always one continuous curve like it was drawn. wasteland on one side and a hair on the other.

Now that you mentioned it, that is weird. And common, it's everywhere. Almost like a f*****g tide washing up in the bay forming that pattern

 

[H]

Now that you mentioned it, that is weird. And common, it's everywhere. Almost like a f*****g tide washing up in the bay forming that pattern

Funny it seems to recede only until the lamboid suture also.

 

[Trichosan]

Lamboid Suture Limit. More research!

 

[bridgeburn]

"The latest big development concerns regulatory T Cells (nicknamed “Tregs”) which modulate the immune system. In a new study led by Dr. Michael Rosenblum, it was found that Tregs are directly responsible for triggering stem cells in the skin to promote healthy hair growth. Historically, it was thought that hair growth was entirely related to stem cell activity. The new findings suggest that certain immune cells (i.e., Tregs) are also essential for hair growth and their is some sort of symbiotic communication between immune cells and hair cells."
http://www.hairlosscure2020.com/tregs-and-hair-growth/

 

[bridgeburn]

Now lets get some Jag1 protein and inject in into our scalps!

 

[That Guy]

When is Ted going to come out of the closet and admit he's just afraid of Finasteride? That's what this is really about.

 

[buckthorn]

What do you mean "where am I going with this?".... I "went" there.. I made my point in it's entirely ...lol

In summary the prevailing theory that male pattern baldness is soley driven by DHT is innacurate. DHT certainly exasperates it, but for an explainable reason. DHT is potentially hair offensive to all people... And so my point is that the dysfunction in the balding individual comes BEFORE DHT....

This dysfunction is Failure to regenerate the hair organ, which in the healthy individual occurs over and over again.. and also an inflammatory response.


Was this not a valid post to share on a hairloss discussion forum?? Is this information, which well and truly casts doubt on the entire model a androgenetic alopecia not worthy of sharing with others who doubt this overly simplistic "DHT=Baldness" lazy theory?

Most of us already know this. Many people, including myself, have bottomed out their DHT with finasteride, and it only caused DRASTICALLY worst hair loss. Mine was well below the bottom of the range... I lost half my hair on it and had TERRIBLE scalp inflammation.

 

[dralex]

Most of us already know this. Many people, including myself, have bottomed out their DHT with finasteride, and it only caused DRASTICALLY worst hair loss. Mine was well below the bottom of the range... I lost half my hair on it and had TERRIBLE scalp inflammation.

Finasteride is over-hyped. Best FDA approved treatment for most? Yes. The answer for people balding, or even just starting balding? Not by a long shot.

 

[Armando Jose]

I was always baffled by the final stages of Androgenetic Alopecia where only the horseshoe remains. The edge of the hair is always one continuous curve like it was drawn. wasteland on one side and a hair on the other.

Five years later, hair loss in the priviliged zone but stay with the same edge. Interesting?

 

[bigentries]

Cotsarelis has publicly noticed those miraculous cases of regrowth from transexuals, he even hypothesize estrogen is the primary factor of regrowth.

I'm pretty sure he or his associates are pretty aware of the potential, if the world's most renowned investigators haven't come up with something then I don't see how are armchair scientists going to make a difference.

Remember a few years ago how everyone in hair loss forums solved the mystery of male pattern baldness by linking any factor they could find to the PGD2 theory?

 

[paleocapa89]

Yes it was stated many times, that an only locally acting estrogen topical would be awesome for hair. Female to male transgenders can regrow a sh*t ton of hair while female to male transgenders can lose hair in a male norwood pattern. De difference? Balance of T+DHT/Estrogen probably.

 

[bigentries]

That guy Taeian was a fraud, I think someone from HLH found out

 

[Killbaldness]

Thanks dude for your reply.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

I did not contradict myself once in those 3 examples you posted....

And so I repeat:
1.) Saying that DHT=Baldness is f*****g retarded.
2.) In the vast majority of cases, DHT is needed for the progression.
3.) DHT is potentially offensive to all

This is not logically sound or valid. But hey, if your ego is demanding that you argue yourself into a box then f*** it! Who am I to tell you otherwise?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum
/thread

 

[Kev123]

So is male pattern baldness a hormone imbalance and we just need to balance it, or it doesn't even matter how balanced your hormones are? A man with full head of hair and a bald man with the same hormone balance as the bald man just means that the bald man got bald gene and the full head of hair man didn't?

Also, can someone theoretically get their hair back with estrogen but stop before they grow tits, turn feminine, or you does estrogen effects happen immediately and you can't hair growth without breast growth?

 

[H]

So is male pattern baldness a hormone imbalance and we just need to balance it, or it doesn't even matter how balanced your hormones are? A man with full head of hair and a bald man with the same hormone balance as the bald man just means that the bald man got bald gene and the full head of hair man didn't?

Also, can someone theoretically get their hair back with estrogen but stop before they grow tits, turn feminine, or you does estrogen effects happen immediately and you can't hair growth without breast growth?

I'll grow tits. F*** it.