On The Topic Of Hair Systems And The Toxicity Of Adhesives, Tape Etc

ABloke112

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I spent a while last night reading a long thread where people were discussing the various problem associated with a lot of the adhesives used to attach hair systems, and it made me a bit nervous about the possibility of getting one. From what I saw in that thread, it seems like all of the stuff you have to put on your scalp are carcinogenic and absorbed through the skin? Seems pretty bad to me, I like having hair but I like the idea of living a long life a lot more tbh.

I saw a lot of people mention something called "ghost bond" or something? And people were saying as it's water based then it isn't toxic due to (chemical process I don't understand). Is this true, everyone in the thread seemed pretty inconclusive about it?

Also how bad are these chemicals? Like if you wear a hair system with the normal adhesives and stuff for say 10 years, how much more likely does it make you to get ill in the future? Obviously it's impossible to know precisely, but is it like a 50% increase in chance, or a 500% increase in chance?

And is there any other way to attach a hair system that does require you to essentially slowly poison yourself? I have heard about clips but that sounds like the perfect setup to the "persons wig comes off in public" comedy moment you always see in films lol.
 

BaldBearded

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When the US FDA bans hair system and wig adhesives I will pay some mind to this. Millions of people around the world use these adhesives, and have so for quite a long time.

We breath in, injest and touch toxic substances every hour of every day. You can't avoid it... it's the planet we live on.

I have yet to see a post made by anyone here that has real, legitimate proof that any of the suff we are using, in the amounts we are using it, is harmful. Not annecdoate evidence, or someone's coming to some conclusion.
 

ABloke112

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When the US FDA bans hair system and wig adhesives I will pay some mind to this. Millions of people around the world use these adhesives, and have so for quite a long time.

We breath in, injest and touch toxic substances every hour of every day. You can't avoid it... it's the planet we live on.

I have yet to see a post made by anyone here that has real, legitimate proof that any of the suff we are using, in the amounts we are using it, is harmful. Not annecdoate evidence, or someone's coming to some conclusion.

There seemed to be decent evidence in that thread that this stuff can be harmful. idk how long wig adhesives have been used in this way (i.e. 24/7) but that will affect the lack of people talking about it. If you brought in a bunch of people who had been smoking for only like 20 years you would probably get a similar result, doesn't mean it isn't harmful, and I think waiting until the government tells us it's bad is a bit risky as they aren't always that open about things.

I do understand what you are saying about how we all injest chemicals that are bad for us every day (air pollution etc), but there's nothing we can really do about that, at least individually (other than move to the middle of nowhere I guess), but I don't think that's a reason not to care about things we can do something about. You could say the exact same thing about smoking surely? "Sure smoking is bad for you but so are plenty of other things, so why not do it". It's kindof a less extreme version of "why are you worried about *serious illness*, you do know you could get hit by a bus tomorrow?"

To me it's about proportional risk, if I could wear a hair system for 5 years or so until I can get another form of treatment, and that would only increase my risk say 20%, I would probably be fine with that.
 

BaldBearded

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There seemed to be decent evidence in that thread that this stuff can be harmful. idk how long wig adhesives have been used in this way (i.e. 24/7) but that will affect the lack of people talking about it. If you brought in a bunch of people who had been smoking for only like 20 years you would probably get a similar result, doesn't mean it isn't harmful, and I think waiting until the government tells us it's bad is a bit risky as they aren't always that open about things.

I do understand what you are saying about how we all injest chemicals that are bad for us every day (air pollution etc), but there's nothing we can really do about that, at least individually (other than move to the middle of nowhere I guess), but I don't think that's a reason not to care about things we can do something about. You could say the exact same thing about smoking surely? "Sure smoking is bad for you but so are plenty of other things, so why not do it". It's kindof a less extreme version of "why are you worried about *serious illness*, you do know you could get hit by a bus tomorrow?"

To me it's about proportional risk, if I could wear a hair system for 5 years or so until I can get another form of treatment, and that would only increase my risk say 20%, I would probably be fine with that.

Well, no, I would not compare it to smoking, because there is more than "evidence" that smoking kills. It's an actual proven fact, which is why there are such restrictions on smoking. It would probably be banned if not for the giant tobacco lobby.

I don't see a giant hair systems products lobby keeping dangerous products off the market.

It's NOT the same.

If these chemicals were extremely dangerous they would be banned in the US, UK and EU.

My advice to anyone to anyone who is worried about this... don't take the chance, don't wear a hair system.
 

ABloke112

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Well, no, I would not compare it to smoking, because there is more than "evidence" that smoking kills. It's an actual proven fact, which is why there are such restrictions on smoking. It would probably be banned if not for the giant tobacco lobby.

I don't see a giant hair systems products lobby keeping dangerous products off the market.

It's NOT the same.

If these chemicals were extremely dangerous they would be banned in the US, UK and EU.

As people pointed out in that thread though, a lot of the chemicals in these glues are classed as carcinogens, they were never intended to be on the body 24/7. It took us a long time to figure out smoking was harmful too. I just think actual evidence is better than just the idea that "if it was bad why wouldn't it be banned".
 

ABloke112

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Well, no, I would not compare it to smoking, because there is more than "evidence" that smoking kills. It's an actual proven fact, which is why there are such restrictions on smoking. It would probably be banned if not for the giant tobacco lobby.

I don't see a giant hair systems products lobby keeping dangerous products off the market.

It's NOT the same.

If these chemicals were extremely dangerous they would be banned in the US, UK and EU.

My advice to anyone to anyone who is worried about this... don't take the chance, don't wear a hair system.

Do you know if it is possible to attach the hair with just clips? I assume it becomes progressively more difficult as you lose more and more hair. I wouldn't mind (and tbh may actually prefer) needing to take it off to shower, sleep etc (even to do exercise, I'm a cyclist, so wearing a helmet covers baldness anyway).
 

Nostab2

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I was the original poster of that thread. The person who making the point that solvent adhesive are riskier that water based. The other point was no studies have been done on this.

My take away was that there is no evidence to say it causes issues. And there is also none to say it doesn't.

I have never heard of one individual claiming to have linked hair system waring to health issues.
 

ABloke112

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I was the original poster of that thread. The person who making the point that solvent adhesive are riskier that water based. The other point was no studies have been done on this.

My take away was that there is no evidence to say it causes issues. And there is also none to say it doesn't.

I have never heard of one individual claiming to have linked hair system waring to health issues.

Was it ever concluded whether the water based ones weren't a risk? I saw people saying they weren't as they don't get absorbed due to them being water based, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if that's right.
 

Nostab2

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Was it ever concluded whether the water based ones weren't a risk? I saw people saying they weren't as they don't get absorbed due to them being water based, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if that's right.
I did change to water based, I researched to ingredients, that's about all you can do.

I would have depression without hair. Just the way I am. So depression in its self to me is a health risk.

I wouldn't let it stop you from happiness. I brought it up on here because I never thought to ask before I started wearing.
 

ABloke112

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I did change to water based, I researched to ingredients, that's about all you can do.

I would have depression without hair. Just the way I am. So depression in its self to me is a health risk.

I wouldn't let it stop you from happiness. I brought it up on here because I never thought to ask before I started wearing.

That makes sense, In have health anxiety so for me it may not be worth it unless i can be sure its safe.

Do you know if it's possible to just use clips to secure a hair system?

There was also a mention of a product called SkinMD in that original thread, would that stop any glue from being absorbed into the skin?
 

Nostab2

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Clips only work if you have a good amount of hair to my knowledge. Never heard of that product. I would assume it has more chemicals than ghost bond. Would you do any other hair replacement treatments if you dont wear?

One thing is for sure in my mind, wearing has go to be safer that medications.
 

ABloke112

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Clips only work if you have a good amount of hair to my knowledge. Never heard of that product. I would assume it has more chemicals than ghost bond. Would you do any other hair replacement treatments if you dont wear?

One thing is for sure in my mind, wearing has go to be safer that medications.

I think wearing probably is safer than finasteride based on what I've heard about it, I would never take finasteride. If I conclude that my hair is actually receeding then I will probably use minoxidil (can't remember full name) to try and delay it. In the future I would get a hair transplant assuming I didn't lose too much. (I have another thread about my current hair situation https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-continue-balding-from-where-i-am-now.129552/)

What would a good amount of hair be for clips? Like a norwood 4 or 5 at the most?

Is there any other attachment methods? Can you get like micro clips inserted into your skin or some weird sh*t like that lol, or is it pretty much clips, tape or glue?

I would probably only use a hair system for a max of 10 years, I'm 18 now, if my hair is receding then I will probably have at least another 2 years until it's really screwed. Once I got to 30 or so I would either go for a hair transplant or just kindof resign to the fact I would be bald tbh, I don't think it would affect my confidence or life as much then as I would (hopefully) be settled into a job, whereas atm I'm about to go off to Uni and then into the real world.

(Also hopefully some new treatment comes along in the next 10 years).
 

ABloke112

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Clips only work if you have a good amount of hair to my knowledge. Never heard of that product. I would assume it has more chemicals than ghost bond. Would you do any other hair replacement treatments if you dont wear?

One thing is for sure in my mind, wearing has go to be safer that medications.
You also mentioned you had researched the ingredients of ghost bond. Did any of them come up as harmful? I know they claim to be 100% Non Toxic but can't really trust that as they wrote it.
 

Nostab2

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That was the whole issue. Nobody real knew if the ingredients are or not. Based on what I looked up, none where listed as harmful. But could never get a confirmation on that.
 

ABloke112

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That was the whole issue. Nobody real knew if the ingredients are or not. Based on what I looked up, none where listed as harmful. But could never get a confirmation on that.
I had a quick look now and I can't find an actual ingredients list? Did you find a list or did you just look at the MSDS sheets?

The saftey sheets says
"Chemical characterisation (substance): Dispersion of acrylic polymers in water.
Also contains: Preservative: Blend of Parabens and Phenoxyetanol."

Apparently parabens can be harmful, but I think it depends on the amount, and I don't think there is much in ghost bond (also thats only listed for xl and platinum, not just the one called "ghost bond", idk why).

It also says the bit about acrylic polymers, which is weird as I thought it wasn't acrylic, maybe that means something else here. http://www.safecosmetics.org/get-the-facts/chemicals-of-concern/2978/
that says they are harmful, however they are talking about specific chemicals so I'm not sure if those are the ones in ghost bond?
 

Nostab2

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I had a quick look now and I can't find an actual ingredients list? Did you find a list or did you just look at the MSDS sheets?

The saftey sheets says
"Chemical characterisation (substance): Dispersion of acrylic polymers in water.
Also contains: Preservative: Blend of Parabens and Phenoxyetanol."

Apparently parabens can be harmful, but I think it depends on the amount, and I don't think there is much in ghost bond (also thats only listed for xl and platinum, not just the one called "ghost bond", idk why).

It also says the bit about acrylic polymers, which is weird as I thought it wasn't acrylic, maybe that means something else here. http://www.safecosmetics.org/get-the-facts/chemicals-of-concern/2978/
that says they are harmful, however they are talking about specific chemicals so I'm not sure if those are the ones in ghost bond?
Yes the msds sheet is all you will get. I asked the makes of ghost bond. They said that the amounts of these chemicals are far under what are considered harmful. Water is what the ingredients are suspended in. So it's not the solvents that others have. The acrylic part makes it stick I guess. If you ask another member who says he had a chemist give him a answer...then it wouldn't even get into the body, but who really knows?
 

ABloke112

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Yes the msds sheet is all you will get. I asked the makes of ghost bond. They said that the amounts of these chemicals are far under what are considered harmful. Water is what the ingredients are suspended in. So it's not the solvents that others have. The acrylic part makes it stick I guess. If you ask another member who says he had a chemist give him a answer...then it wouldn't even get into the body, but who really knows?
Do they refuse to specify the actual ingredients beyond vague things like "acrylic co-polymers"? All cosmetic products have the ingredients on the back, it's weird they can get away with not listing them anywhere.

The solvents the other have, is that ethyl acetate I assume? As that's the only thing listed on the MSDS pages for some of the acrylic glues.

Thank you for your help btw, I appreciated you taking the time to reply to all of my comments.
 
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cottonReville

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I wouldn't worry about it, dude - but if you're looking for a system w/ clips I noticed Lord Hair has begun stocking them.

I'm allergic to toupee tape, which is a shame, because it's so much easier to use than glue.

That's why I'm Got2B user these days ;)
 

Fanjeera

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Glues are simple things: they consist of 2 components: the solvent and the film maker. Acrylate polymer as the film maker then and water is the solvent. Polymer means the molecule's size is huge -- it cannot penetrate the skin. You cannot push huge objects into the blood stream. They just won't fit in.

Got2b is different though of course -- full of chemicals.
 
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Nostab2

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Glues are simple things: they consist of 2 components: the solvent and the film maker. Acrylate polymer as the film maker then and water is the solvent. Polymer means the molecule's size is huge -- it cannot penetrate the skin. You cannot push huge objects into the blood stream. They just won't fit in.

Got2b is different though of course -- full of chemicals.
So this statement just applies to ghost bond right? Can this statement be applied to all adhesives? Or just water based
 
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