New Study: Topical Cetirizine For Androgenetic Alopecia Shows Promise

[IdealForehead]

Desloratadine reduces PGE2: http://www.ijcem.com/files/ijcem0019483.pdf

If you wanna try something else there is Levocetirizine which is the third gen anti-histamine version of ceti. Obv more costly and should be prescription only in most countries.

People commonly reference that study. But keep in mind, this is a study of LYMPHOCYTES which have likely nothing to do with hair loss. Those are your white blood cells that fight off viral infections. That has nothing to do with hair loss. Chemicals have different effects on different types of cells. For reference, it's likely MAST CELLS we're trying to target with antihistamines which is a completely different thing.

People need to stop getting lost in the trees. Keep your eyes on the forest.

Any second generation antihistamine should work fine as they all have the same basic effect.

Here are the issues:

- Cetirizine is limited by its stability in alcohol.
- Levoceterizine has the same structural weakness as cetirizine that can lead it to react with alcohol.
- Loratadine is a prodrug which only works after the liver converts it to desloratadine.
- Desloratadine is cheap, over the counter, stable, and highly soluble in ethanol.

That's why desloratadine was my choice and I still see no better agent. Rupatadine might be okay too but I bet it would be more expensive and I don't know its solubility.

Some of the positive anti-inflammatory effects of desloratadine are listed here, which would be expected to be the same for pretty much all of these drugs since they all do the same basic thing:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ace-look-like-sh*t.109593/page-3#post-1582962

 

[Ollie]

This is a study of LYMPHOCYTES which have likely nothing to do with hair loss. Those are your white blood cells that fight off viral infections. That has nothing to do with hair loss.

People need to stop getting lost in the trees. Keep your eyes on the forest.

Any second generation antihistamine should work fine as they all have the same basic effect.

Here are the issues:

- Cetirizine is limited by its stability in alcohol though.
- Levoceterizine has the same structural weakness that can lead it to react with alcohol.
- Loratadine is a prodrug which only works after the liver converts it to desloratadine.
- Desloratadine is cheap, over the counter, stable, and highly soluble in ethanol.

That's why desloratadine was my choice and I still see no better agent. Rupatadine might be okay too but I bet it would be more expensive and I don't know its solubility.

Some of the positive anti-inflammatory effects of desloratadine are listed here, which would be expected to be the same for pretty much all of these drugs since they all do the same basic thing:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ace-look-like-sh*t.109593/page-3#post-1582962

You say the Cetirizine stability alcohol is poor, but does that also count if youre making it daily ?

Following on from that, if i am making it daily am i able to use the 10mg tablets for hayfever or do you suggest i source the powder from elsewhere ?

 

[IdealForehead]

You say the Cetirizine stability alcohol is poor, but does that also count if youre making it daily ?

Following on from that, if i am making it daily am i able to use the 10mg tablets for hayfever or do you suggest i source the powder from elsewhere ?

Probably it doesn't degrade that much that quickly in alcohol but I don't know. The chemical reaction is explained here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/degradation-of-cetirizine-in-alcohol-vehicles.66061/

(Called Fischer-esterification.)

You could ask on a chem subforum on reddit how much people think it would happen in real life. I like mixing once every 2 weeks or so, so for me, this agent makes no sense. I don't want to have to worry about that.

The only problem with using tablets is you get a lot of filler in there too, but I can't see that being harmful, so probably that's fine.

 

[jgray201]

I have been playing around with the vehicle and think the one i am currently using for the last month and a half has been good. I basically mix 240mg cetirizine powder in 7ml distilled water and 1 ml PG. I then add 4ml of Kane's K&B solution (i have quite a lot spare) which as i understand it is about 60%ethanol. That means my overall solution has probably 20-25% ethanol in it. The mix lasts for about 4-5 days. 2% solution.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

@IdealForehead would I be able to crush and dissolve desloratadine (claritin) tablets into my minoxidil liquid ? what would the ratio be ? if not can i just do the cetirizine (zyrtec) tabs in distilled water alone ? love your posts btw

I have been playing around with the vehicle and think the one i am currently using for the last month and a half has been good. I basically mix 240mg cetirizine powder in 7ml distilled water and 1 ml PG. I then add 4ml of Kane's K&B solution (i have quite a lot spare) which as i understand it is about 60%ethanol. That means my overall solution has probably 20-25% ethanol in it. The mix lasts for about 4-5 days. 2% solution.

how are your results ?

 

[jgray201]

Results are good. I was using OC before which is a very strong pgd2 blocker but it was very expensive. I switched to cetirizine about 5 months ago and have not lost any ground. I am also seeing some strengthening of hairs at front of hairline

 

[westonci]

Results are good. I was using OC before which is a very strong pgd2 blocker but it was very expensive. I switched to cetirizine about 5 months ago and have not lost any ground. I am also seeing some strengthening of hairs at front of hairline

Seti at 2g/day is outrageously expensive. I wish I could hop on Cetrizine. But Im scared of losing hairs.

How often do you apply Cetrizine? Once a day?

 

[RU serious]

Seti at 2g/day is outrageously expensive. I wish I could hop on Cetrizine. But Im scared of losing hairs.

How often do you apply Cetrizine? Once a day?

Considering cutting dose to 1g day setipiprant and adding cetirizine. Would make the cost a bit more manageable.

 

[jgray201]

I use once a day. I think the two together could be a really interesting treatment.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Probably it doesn't degrade that much that quickly in alcohol but I don't know. The chemical reaction is explained here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/degradation-of-cetirizine-in-alcohol-vehicles.66061/

(Called Fischer-esterification.)

You could ask on a chem subforum on reddit how much people think it would happen in real life. I like mixing once every 2 weeks or so, so for me, this agent makes no sense. I don't want to have to worry about that.

The only problem with using tablets is you get a lot of filler in there too, but I can't see that being harmful, so probably that's fine.

Sorry for the question but your posts are so informative I feel as though you might have the answers.

Currently using minoxidil liquid and I'm looking to add cetirizine into my regiment along with RU and estriol cream. If I'm going to add the RU into my minoxidil can I add the cetirizine (zyrtec) as well ? If not what is the easiest and most convenient way of doing so ? Using minoxidil twice a day already if I have to add another topical along with the estriol I will but I'd prefer not to.

 

[IdealForehead]

Sorry for the question but your posts are so informative I feel as though you might have the answers.

Currently using minoxidil liquid and I'm looking to add cetirizine into my regiment along with RU and estriol cream. If I'm going to add the RU into my minoxidil can I add the cetirizine (zyrtec) as well ? If not what is the easiest and most convenient way of doing so ? Using minoxidil twice a day already if I have to add another topical along with the estriol I will but I'd prefer not to.

Sure you can, but according to that thread I linked:

"Processing cetirizine with alcohols does something that makes 40% of cetirizine vanish at 40 Degree after three weeks. I would speculate that having Cetirizine in direct contact with alcohol like in my Vodka mixture would degrade CET even faster. Maybe after one week about half of the CET is gone! Haha, I was putting Vodka only on my scalp for several weeks ;-)"

I don't know why anyone would intentionally put cetirizine in an alcohol based vehicle knowing it can and will at least partially degrade.

Using it in an alcohol free vehicle is also not ideal as alcohol helps the penetration and without it you won't get as much effect. I suppose you could use DMSO instead to enhance penetration in an alcohol-free vehicle, but DMSO is bad for the skin long term.

The proper solution in my opinion is to use desloratadine, which is why that's what I've done.

 

[bassa]

I don't know why anyone would intentionally put cetirizine in an alcohol based vehicle knowing it can and will at least partially degrade.

Using it in an alcohol free vehicle is also not ideal as alcohol helps the penetration and without it you won't get as much effect. I suppose you could use DMSO instead to enhance penetration in an alcohol-free vehicle, but DMSO is bad for the skin long term.

The proper solution in my opinion is to use desloratadine, which is why that's what I've done.

I use this stuff:

https://www.efarma.nl/zyrtec-drank-1mg-ml/13805622


It is water based, so I add zinc sulfate and vit b6 p5p to it.
It has glycerol and propylene glycol in it, which basically enhances the skin absorption, just what ethanol would do.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

I use this stuff:

https://www.efarma.nl/zyrtec-drank-1mg-ml/13805622


It is water based, so I add zinc sulfate and vit b6 p5p to it.
It has glycerol and propylene glycol in it, which basically enhances the skin absorption, just what ethanol would do.

How long does this last you ? How are your results ? The design on that package has me drooling. Do you live in united states ?

 

[bassa]

How long does this last you ? How are your results ? The design on that package has me drooling. Do you live in united states ?

I just started out with this protocol. it is a 200ml bottle, so should last me 6 months+... I'm from Europe, but I bet you can buy these cetrezine oral drops also in the US.

The reason I put in the extra vit and zinc is because of another thread I'm following here.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ce-how-b6-and-zinc-have-saved-my-hair.101629/

 

[jgray201]

Sure you can, but according to that thread I linked:

"Processing cetirizine with alcohols does something that makes 40% of cetirizine vanish at 40 Degree after three weeks. I would speculate that having Cetirizine in direct contact with alcohol like in my Vodka mixture would degrade CET even faster. Maybe after one week about half of the CET is gone! Haha, I was putting Vodka only on my scalp for several weeks ;-)"

I don't know why anyone would intentionally put cetirizine in an alcohol based vehicle knowing it can and will at least partially degrade.

Using it in an alcohol free vehicle is also not ideal as alcohol helps the penetration and without it you won't get as much effect. I suppose you could use DMSO instead to enhance penetration in an alcohol-free vehicle, but DMSO is bad for the skin long term.

The proper solution in my opinion is to use desloratadine, which is why that's what I've done.

If you believe in Cetirizine's method of action and the study that was published, then that is why you would use a vehicle with ethanol in. Because thats what they used. If you think the study is a sham then fine i can understand why you would argue that given the evidence you posted.

Ill be honest i dont really understand the specifics of why it degrades. It seems to me that they used a very specific test and im not sure how comparable it really is to use in a topical solution at room temperature. I remember from the Rossi study that they used some kind of silicone product in the solution. Is there any chance that they used that to prevent degration? I have no idea but It would be great to put these questions to the people who conducted the study.

 

[jgray201]

I use this stuff:

https://www.efarma.nl/zyrtec-drank-1mg-ml/13805622


It is water based, so I add zinc sulfate and vit b6 p5p to it.
It has glycerol and propylene glycol in it, which basically enhances the skin absorption, just what ethanol would do.

Isnt this 0.1% solution though?

 

[bassa]

snt this 0.1% solution though?

hmmm... hahaha your right....

I think I will chrush some cetrizine tablets and throw them in.

thx

 

[Ollie]

Hey @IdealForehead i've decided to go ahead and make my cetirizine solution (1%) with just alcohol (perhaps some PG as well so it doesn't dry too quickly and leave a residue on my skin) - i'll be making daily solutions so no problem with degrading i presume.

Im using the typical hayfever tablets as they're cheap and very accessible here in the UK, where as the drops aren't sold here beyond 0.1% solution - but wanted to know if the ingredient list would prompt any problem in them dissolving ? : lactose, microcrystalline cellulose, maize starch, colloidal anhydrous silica, magnesium stearate, talc, hypromellose, titanium dioxide(E171), macrogol 4000 and sodium citrate .


Thanks man

 

[IdealForehead]

If you believe in Cetirizine's method of action and the study that was published, then that is why you would use a vehicle with ethanol in. Because thats what they used. If you think the study is a sham then fine i can understand why you would argue that given the evidence you posted.

Ill be honest i dont really understand the specifics of why it degrades. It seems to me that they used a very specific test and im not sure how comparable it really is to use in a topical solution at room temperature. I remember from the Rossi study that they used some kind of silicone product in the solution. Is there any chance that they used that to prevent degration? I have no idea but It would be great to put these questions to the people who conducted the study.

The Rossi study did not explain how they mixed their solution or the composition in specific. Again this is all avoidable by using an alcohol stable antihistamine.

 

[IdealForehead]

Hey @IdealForehead i've decided to go ahead and make my cetirizine solution (1%) with just alcohol (perhaps some PG as well so it doesn't dry too quickly and leave a residue on my skin) - i'll be making daily solutions so no problem with degrading i presume.

Im using the typical hayfever tablets as they're cheap and very accessible here in the UK, where as the drops aren't sold here beyond 0.1% solution - but wanted to know if the ingredient list would prompt any problem in them dissolving ? : lactose, microcrystalline cellulose, maize starch, colloidal anhydrous silica, magnesium stearate, talc, hypromellose, titanium dioxide(E171), macrogol 4000 and sodium citrate .


Thanks man

I'm not a chemist so i cant say for sure but i dont imagine a problem with any of that except that the alcohol will likely degrade a large percent of your cetirizine.