New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[doogiehwsr]

I've had personal success with wounding, back when chemical peels were being tried out. I didn't get much, but the hair has been very resilient. I'm only using generic minoxidil at the moment, so I am certainly going to give this a try. I bought the New Spa 1.5mm roller off Amazon, though part of me wishes I had gone for the 2.0mm... ah well, looking forward to reporting back with my results over the next few weeks.

 

[mj9]

http://www.follicabio.com/content/team-and-advisors/

Notice how they all have lots of hair!

 

[Sparky4444]

This thread has this much momentum, why?? For one, Follica has shown NOTHING!! There are absolutely no pictures of any sort, just a lot of "this could" and "this might"...Forget about Follica..It's been on the radar for how many years now??

 

[gz11]

Wow this is really interesting. I just remembered that 4 years into finasteride, back in 2008, I cut the frontal part of my head open during an engineering job when I sat upwards too quickly and a server rail gashed it open. Shortly after that, I had significant regrowth in that area. I always chalked that up to the finasteride "kicking in" late. Perhaps that wasn't the full story.

 

[squeegee]

Here's a close up shot of my right temple from my third dermarolling session. My first one was

Here's a shot of my first dermarolling session two weeks ago:

^ I don't think thats anywhere near enough wounding, there are far less drops of blood. I know wound healing may not be the same across the entire body, but I've had my wisdom teeth pulled and had gum grafting done on me where a strip of gum graft tissue was taken out from pallet and stitched in between gum tissue and my two front lower teeth. Both times my surgeon said my anatomy is crazy, I heal *really* fast and really well. Having said that, the length of time I see it takes me to heal with the dermarolling wounding is REALLY quick too, its 2 days AT MOST but typically one day. Its similar with my cat, whenever I play with her she always gives me a love bites/scratches on my hand to the point of bleeding. These scratches are GONE the next day. I can see why some people said dermarolling with lithium DIDNT WORK in the past because I'm almost certain they weren't doing it vigorously.

Much like what princessRambo pointed out, that the wounding area looks BIG, I think we need to be equally rough on our skin, similarly to the woman who used the dermaroller on the guys face and had relatively lots of bleeding all across.

Its great that we've got many people on board with this community trial to see what works and at what specific times its best to repeat sessions, apply minoxidil, how much, etc. Its a good thing that the results look to be fairly quick as Histogen saw fast response times.

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Those growth factors are already available here: http://anageninc.com/nano-solutions/gf-nano-solution-30g.html

My only concern is of course SAFETY. The ingredients more or less mirror those from the studies I posted as well as some of the ones from Histogen. I know at least one guy will be trialing this along with wounding on another forum. THIS could give even more substantial/quicker results. I'm fine without those growth factors if wounding works on its own though, I don't want to pump any more foreign compounds into my body (RU being one and will soon start CB-03-01).

That is some good stuff Hell!.. but I will beat everybody when it comes to bleeding..watch me bleed next week.. I have a 3 days week-end to get rollin 2.5 mm style!

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I used to buy that to sedate my fish, to cut their teeth.

But i think you can buy condoms for longer pleasure, those also have benzocaine on them.
Or i just saw this on a site: http://www.dermarollershop.com/products/all/numbing-agent/

I'm thinking of buying a 2.5 roller. My only worry is that there are two veins on my temple and could there be a chance that i can damage them with a 2.5?

sedate fishes? WTF? buy a smaller one for the temple to start with it.. Safety first!:salut:

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Wow this is really interesting. I just remembered that 4 years into finasteride, back in 2008, I cut the frontal part of my head open during an engineering job when I sat upwards too quickly and a server rail gashed it open. Shortly after that, I had significant regrowth in that area. I always chalked that up to the finasteride "kicking in" late. Perhaps that wasn't the full story.

Welcome to the forum!:tongue:

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This thread has this much momentum, why?? For one, Follica has shown NOTHING!! There are absolutely no pictures of any sort, just a lot of "this could" and "this might"...Forget about Follica..It's been on the radar for how many years now??

**** Follica! get a roller Sparx4444 and join the yahoosss.!

 

[Sparky4444]

I have one bought from Fabao...it does help with absorption when applying topicals..but to get yourself to bleed?? I'll watch you guys go first...

 

[hellouser]

I just remembered that 4 years into finasteride, back in 2008, I cut the frontal part of my head open during an engineering job when I sat upwards too quickly and a server rail gashed it open. Shortly after that, I had significant regrowth in that area.

Do you still have those hairs?!

Its been 4+ years, it'd be interesting to know if they've been DHT resistant since or continued growing as normal?!

Please PLEASE let us know!

 

[gz11]

Do you still have those hairs?!

Its been 4+ years, it'd be interesting to know if they've been DHT resistant since or continued growing as normal?!

Please PLEASE let us know!

Hey Hellrouser,

I actually got this same question over on the HLH forum. I stopped taking finasteride in 2009 and lost lots of ground, however that wounded area is still slightly fuller than the rest of the area around it. I will try to get pics uploaded soon. It HAS thinned as well though, so if the regrowth I had was indeed from the wound, that would indicate that indeed this regrown hair is still susceptible to DHT. That makes sense really as your body is producing the same DHT susceptible hair that you already had there. That is of course if you believe in the theory that certain hairs on the scalp are susceptible to DHT and others aren't.

 

[hellouser]

Hey Hellrouser,

I actually got this same question over on the HLH forum. I stopped taking finasteride in 2009 and lost lots of ground, however that wounded area is still slightly fuller than the rest of the area around it. I will try to get pics uploaded soon. It HAS thinned as well though, so if the regrowth I had was indeed from the wound, that would indicate that indeed this regrown hair is still susceptible to DHT. That makes sense really as your body is producing the same DHT susceptible hair that you already had there. That is of course if you believe in the theory that certain hairs on the scalp are simply susceptible to DHT and others aren't.

Hmm! That kind of sucks, but if a proper topical DHT inhibitor like CB-03-01 is to work, then we could save those hairs indefinitely.

Please post the photos if you can, it'd be really interesting to see REAL world results from an actual wound!

 

[bushbush]

It HAS thinned as well though, so if the regrowth I had was indeed from the wound, that would indicate that indeed this regrown hair is still susceptible to DHT. That makes sense really as your body is producing the same DHT susceptible hair that you already had there.

This is still in line with the pgd2 theory as it would theoretically require repeated wounding to maintain.

 

[doogiehwsr]

Day one of using my 1.5mm New Spa roller and I barely had a single drop of blood... I rolled fairly vigorously but didn't see much action. My head was tingly for several hours afterwards, however.

I am going to try some added pressure next week, and if it still does not take, may upgrade to a 2.0 or 2.5mm roller.

 

[jimmy360]

Any thoughts on if this would be good to maintain existing hair/ halt future loss?

 

[hellouser]

Any thoughts on if this would be good to maintain existing hair/ halt future loss?

If WNT proteins are released, its definitely possible as Histogen uses them too for their 'Hair Stimulating Complex' aka 'HSC' (however WNT proteins are just one of the things in HSC)

 

[resu]

In mice, not humans.

 

[mj9]

In mice, not humans.

Exactly - these growth factors are not released in humans! Part of the puzzle is still missing

 

[hellouser]

Nonsense!! what is your source for that? all these growth factor are released during human skin wound healing, otherwise you wouldn't be able to heal at all, the problem is during human wound healing, HUMAN DON'T HAVE ENOUGH dermal γδ T cells, that is the problem with our ability to generate hair during wounding. For the millionth time,

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n7/abs/nm.3181.html



I Wish people will read threads and article posted in them, instead of spitting random statements like that. Now the point of the Costarelis study is that we can somehow mimic this feedback by providing enough fgf9 through the healing window, that's why we are trying to bombard our scalp with minoxidil during the healing window to mimic this "unique feedback loop", because minoxidil somehow induces PGE2 which induces fgf9

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9008235

I think what we need is a dermabrading device that basically strips the top layer of or skin deep enough for regeneration of the skin ALONG WITH hair follicles from induced FGF-9. However, what we need is to find out WHICH topical is the one that will do that? We've seen that no topical at all is possible to grow full hair, but is it enough for everyone with Androgenetic Alopecia?

We need to continue experimenting with this until we finally fvcking crack it! Trial and error and we've got a number of forums that can do a variety of tests before we nail it and bury the lying companys with their snail paced progress!

 

[mj9]

Sorry can you tell me why my statement is "nonsense"?!

Fgf9 is initially secreted from gd T cells, an unconventional, rare subset of T cells involved in the immune response.

You could have millions of gd T cells but if they didn't release this growth factor (Fgf9), then they are pointless.

 

[hellouser]

Beyond the Dermaroller Community Trial thread thats going on at Bald Truth Talk I think we should also make a collaborative effort with dermabrasion and experimenting with FGF-9 inducing topicals at various times post wounding. ****, I'd be willing to try out the dermabrasion on my bald temples and see what happens. I've looked at ebay for the device and it looks like it costs about $500. I'm willing to spend that if I'm guaranteed results. However, it'd be best if a number of individuals got their hands on one and experiments with various topicals and then reported their results. Once we could narrow down which route works we'd basically call it a day and move on with looking normal again.

 

[princessRambo]

$500 bucks? Have you checked amazon for cheaper devices? http://www.amazon.com/Kendal-Diamon...&qid=1376944112&sr=8-11&keywords=dermabrasion

I am not too familiar with dermabrasion, how is it that much more dramatic than microneedling?
[video=youtube;iuR7ho-YICc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuR7ho-YICc[/video]

 

[resu]

Yeah that's the thing though, even the Cots study and related wound healing window are all on rodents. Seems that healing from dermarollers might be very fast after all, and the inflammatory stage might only be a day or two at most, as it is really not that deep/serious wound, relatively speaking, it's still 1.5mm deep at most in most cases which is completely different that accidentally falling, head first into a George foreman grill...hopefully we will get a hint at what works and what doesn't since people are trialing different things all the over the forums..

We should wait longer, I think 15 days should be a safe window for recovery but it may vary from person to person but from what I've read that should be the case for 1,5mm rollers (owndoc source).