New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[varyt]

Long time lurker. think this is first post

thought i would add onto this. I bought a 2mm dermaroller around 2 weeks ago. Used on my temples where hair hasnt grown since the glory days some 20 years ago. Had very thick hair there and has been declining for 20 years (been on finasteride on/off during this period). I have been using rogaine on vertex (good response) and temples(no response). I noticed tonight that my right temple has a lot of vellus hair starting to appear. This is what prompted me to respond, as no hairs have been in this area period. My approach is to roll slowly ensuring deep puncture and bleeding. I rogaine 24 hours after as suggested. There is pain and blood but nothing i cant handle. Hope this adds some credibility to deep dermarolling and i continue to see results. Obviously early doors but looks promising. I will post an update if gets better/worse.

I intend in doing another session in coming 2 days ie waiting a week roughly before sessions.

I also use daktarin (miconzole nitrate) over past 6months, but its only since dermarolling have i noticed a shift in temples. Small changes but significant in terms of finding hair in area i havent seen at all in my temple-hairline.

 

[Chelaxing]

Long time lurker. think this is first post

thought i would add onto this. I bought a 2mm dermaroller around 2 weeks ago. Used on my temples where hair hasnt grown since the glory days some 20 years ago. Had very thick hair there and has been declining for 20 years (been on finasteride on/off during this period). I have been using rogaine on vertex (good response) and temples(no response). I noticed tonight that my right temple has a lot of vellus hair starting to appear. This is what prompted me to respond, as no hairs have been in this area period. My approach is to roll slowly ensuring deep puncture and bleeding. I rogaine 24 hours after as suggested. There is pain and blood but nothing i cant handle. Hope this adds some credibility to deep dermarolling and i continue to see results. Obviously early doors but looks promising. I will post an update if gets better/worse.

I intend in doing another session in coming 2 days ie waiting a week roughly before sessions.

i know this is a stupid question but are you on rogaine liquid or foam?

 

[Jlyncher]

Long time lurker. think this is first post

thought i would add onto this. I bought a 2mm dermaroller around 2 weeks ago. Used on my temples where hair hasnt grown since the glory days some 20 years ago. Had very thick hair there and has been declining for 20 years (been on finasteride on/off during this period). I have been using rogaine on vertex (good response) and temples(no response). I noticed tonight that my right temple has a lot of vellus hair starting to appear. This is what prompted me to respond, as no hairs have been in this area period. My approach is to roll slowly ensuring deep puncture and bleeding. I rogaine 24 hours after as suggested. There is pain and blood but nothing i cant handle. Hope this adds some credibility to deep dermarolling and i continue to see results. Obviously early doors but looks promising. I will post an update if gets better/worse.

I intend in doing another session in coming 2 days ie waiting a week roughly before sessions.

I also use daktarin (miconzole nitrate) over past 6months, but its only since dermarolling have i noticed a shift in temples. Small changes but significant in terms of finding hair in area i havent seen at all in my temple-hairline.

That's promising, keep us posted varyt.

 

[varyt]

i know this is a stupid question but are you on rogaine liquid or foam?

I use the foam. I have never tried the liquid form.

 

[varyt]

I wouldn't be surprised if it took quite a while to regrow shiny temples, just because those area are insanely stubborn. I also suspect even though we get new follicle it might take many months to thicken them. I tend to think it might almost be like newborn growing hair... they come out usually thin and mostly bald and slow growing, but as time goes boy they thicken, shed multiple time and within a year you have a baby afro. I am talking specifically about new hair, meaning, usually shiny cristal ball areas. I don't want people derma rolling shiny areas only that have been minuaturized in years and expect dark terminal bad boys growing in weeks/few-months. One of the keys to assess the efficacy of this treatment is to watch out for eventual thickening, shedding and robust regrowing of existing miniaturized areas as well.

Agreed. I dont expect anything significant. I know this will be a long road but encouraged by the introduction of dermaroller to the regimin. I will have a careful eye on the hair cycle of the new hairs and see if any new ones arrive.

 

[squeegee]

Even the barbecue wasn't completely cristal ball at the temples, so the 4 month full regrowth seems reasonable, i wonder if he would regrow this quickly if he had a shiny scalp that was miniaturized for years.

Notice how they temple are still not grown yet?

Bam!! temples are now showing as well.

hahaah! amazing story right there! slick bald to friggin hair in weeks!

Tenderized your skin like it is going on the barbecue!

[video=youtube;yFNe2_9YJXs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFNe2_9YJXs[/video]

 

[Sparky4444]

I wouldn't be surprised if it took quite a while to regrow shiny temples, just because those area are insanely stubborn. I also suspect even though we get new follicle it might take many months to thicken them. I tend to think it might almost be like newborn growing hair... they come out usually thin and mostly bald and slow growing, but as time goes boy they thicken, shed multiple time and within a year you have a baby afro. I am talking specifically about new hair, meaning, usually shiny cristal ball areas. I don't want people derma rolling shiny areas only that have been minuaturized in years and expect dark terminal bad boys growing in weeks/few-months. One of the keys to assess the efficacy of this treatment is to watch out for eventual thickening, shedding and robust regrowing of existing miniaturized areas as well.

agree fully...however I think that seeing something in areas that are pretty shiny, even sproutlings of vellus in a relatively short period of time, is enough for me to take the procedure to my vertex...but I want to see something happen at my temples...CET started up some sprouts, so I am expecting this to trump that...

 

[squeegee]

[video=youtube;ssQ7jb41wHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssQ7jb41wHU[/video]

 

[Sparky4444]

[video=youtube;ssQ7jb41wHU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssQ7jb41wHU[/video]

Squeeg', I'm starting to worry about you! :freaked2:

 

[squeegee]

hahaahaha! OK for all the non-believers here.. I am on week 5 on rollin. I a have a receding hairline..not vertex balding...Here's what my temples look like both side.. Just took a snap-shot with my Dino-Lite...



I will get more pictures this week-end.. all the yellow on the pic is where the needles punctured my pumpkin.

 

[Jlyncher]

hahaahaha! OK for all the non-believers here.. I am on week 5 on rollin. I a have a receding hairline..not vertex balding...Here's what my temples look like both side.. Just took a snap-shot with my Dino-Lite...



I will get more pictures this week-end.. all the yellow on the pic is where the needles punctured my pumpkin.

All the yellow with hair sprouting out of them? Nice!
Great pic, keep em coming squeeg.

 

[odalbak]

Does hair neogenesis happen exactly at the location of the needle wound or in the neighborhood?

 

[DesperateOne]

Do you guys think adding Cet and Mico will help?

 

[squeegee]

Do you guys think adding Cet and Mico will help?

I am on Miconazole Nitrate 4% right now! yes, that will greatly help!

 

[DesperateOne]

I am on Miconazole Nitrate 4% right now! yes, that will greatly help!

I bought some about 2 weeks ago but haven't used it, I have the 2%. How much are you applying on yourself. Also, are you applying the day of the dermarolling or are you waiting some time or maybe even days.

 

[Agahi]

What brand derma roller are you guys using or does it matter. Im slightly afraid of the ebay ones from china ect. Is there any where I can buy one domestically (usa)?

 

[squeegee]

What brand derma roller are you guys using or does it matter. Im slightly afraid of the ebay ones from china ect. Is there any where I can buy one domestically (usa)?

I got few from Amazon.com..different brands.. they all do the job.. just read the reviews...using the MT rollers and Rejuveness brands.. and just ordered some from Ebay from Honk kong lol.. cheap as ****..

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I bought some about 2 weeks ago but haven't used it, I have the 2%. How much are you applying on yourself. Also, are you applying the day of the dermarolling or are you waiting some time or maybe even days.

Applying a day after carving my coconut with the roller! 4% is way more potent than 2 and I mixing just a bit with minoxidil so I don't look greasy at work. 15 grams last me 3 weeks. Apply it twice a day.

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All the yellow with hair sprouting out of them? Nice!
Great pic, keep em coming squeeg.

It is pretty good for 5 weeks.. My temple were slick friggin bald. Cannot wait to see the results in 4 month. I even started regrowing hair in the very very front area where my hairline used to start in my younger days. So keep the faith, roll it every Fridays 1.5mm or + and topical every other days. I also use a 0.25mm and 0.50mm every days before topical to get better absorption.

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[video=youtube;f4COKlQqLeM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4COKlQqLeM[/video]

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@squeegee: I almost spilled coffee on my desk watching that hot dog making video ROFLCOPTER... great progress man, hopefully these puppies will grow stronger and more pigmented in the coming months


in normal wound healing it seems like it rarely happens within the wound itself, but in the presence of b-catenin (which minoxidil induces), it can.

That guy from the video is really whacked! Keep it rollin Princess!

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Another pic from my temple.. I will get an haircut tomorrow morning.. Get better pics this week-end.. Probably take a break of derma-rolling.. My head still shedding and recovering from the last stabbing..LOL

 

[DesperateOne]

Since we're basically trying to replicate follica's method using derma roller I thought this would be interesting, this was posted on TBT today.

Example 1
Method of Treatment of Skin

A method according to the present invention for effecting treatment of the skin on a human scalp is performed as follows. A subject with near complete hair loss and mild dyspigmentation on the scalp is seated in a stationary examination chair.


Next, using a programmed protocol for treating physical features that are known to be present on the subject's scalp (the practitioners having assessed the subject's scalp, determined that germane features included “featureless” areas of skin, age spots, terminal hairs, and sweat glands, and provided such information to the computer in order to trigger the use of an appropriate protocol), the computer positions a fractional laser above the scalp, and the laser is activated for a prescribed time and at a prescribed power for removal of a column of tissue at the target area to a depth of about 1 mm, thereby forming a channel at the location of injury. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area in which a channel has been formed, the computer positions an applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the site of injury in the second further target area. The applicator includes an inkjet-type head for delivering a composition substantially directly into the channel. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime (a GSK3β modulator) and carrier comprising PEO-PPO-PEO (a thermoreversible polymer that gels when exposed to human physiological temperatures) is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer then uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm “above” (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the first target area. The selection of the further target area is in accordance with a preset directive that instructs the computer to select further target areas from a rectilinear grid defined by points that are separated from one another by 4 mm.


Next, using the programmed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer positions an applicator that is configured for propelling particles at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the further target area, and the applicator is activated for a prescribed time to deliver lithium-containing particles at a prescribed velocity (calculated to penetrate the skin to a depth of 1 to 3 mm) at the location of the further target area. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area that has been bombarded with lithium-containing particles, the computer positions a second applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the further target area. The applicator includes a spray nozzle for delivering a composition to the body surface. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising aminoxidil and an appropriate excipient is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer again uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area (a “second further target area”) on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm “above” (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the further target area. In accordance with the preprogrammed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer again positions a fractional laser above the scalp, and the laser is activated for a prescribed time and at a prescribed power for removal of a column of tissue at the second further target area to a depth of about 1 mm, thereby forming a channel at the location of the second further target area. Using the protocol that is appropriate for an area in which a channel has been formed, the computer positions an applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the site of injury in the second further target area. The applicator includes an inkjet-type head for delivering a composition substantially directly into the channel. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime and carrier comprising acrylate-lactate-PEO-PPO-PEO-lactate-acrylate is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer again uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area (a “third further target area”) on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm “above” (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the second further target area. Once again using the programmed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer positions the applicator that is configured for propelling particles at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the third further target area, and the applicator is activated for a prescribed time to deliver lithium-containing particles at a prescribed velocity (calculated to penetrate the skin to a depth of 1 to 3 mm) at the location of the further target area. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area that has been bombarded with lithium-containing particles, the computer positions a second applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the third further target area. The applicator includes a spray nozzle for delivering a composition to the body surface. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising aminoxidil and an appropriate excipient is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The described process is performed iteratively to give rise to additional target areas, wherein the additional target areas form a rectilinear grid relative to the portion of scalp.


Taken from Follicas most recent patent

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/e...PCTDescription

 

[Sparky4444]

either way, Follica or dermarolling, it looks there is something cooking here that can justify me doing a hair transplant on my frontal areas...then add some coverage with Follica or dermarolling on the vertex and rear vertex...

...I still have doubts that either one can restore what we had, but it can sure help...an hair transplant can restore what you had, just not all over -- depending on the extent of your loss and donor quality..

..either way, it looks like a painful road back to a full head of hair!!

 

[DesperateOne]

Looks like you enjoyed that reading Rambo .

Well I am not that into researching this stuff so much, so I will post a few questions and see if you might be able to answer, or just give me your opinion.

To my understanding of the patent and your explanation, WOUND1 would have to be around 4mm, this means that we might need to actually use a knitting needle if we were to try and replicate it? Because believe me when I say that people are going to try to replicate this, as a matter of fact, I suggested we conducted another community trial on TBT, you should go there as well to give your opinion.

This GSK3B, would we be able to buy it somewhere or maybe let kane know and he might be able to produce it? It is also seems that it might be a bit of technical difficulty because if we have to apply GSK3B only to wounds WOUND1, that would be a challege if doing it alone, or did I misread that?

So, does it say that after we create another wound 4mm apart we should apply minoxidil minutes after? Wouldn't that suggest that if there is anything to this derma rolling study, we should apply it sooner than 24 hours like the study says, before the wound closes and stops producing growth factors? I to admit that I deviated a little from the original derma study and now apply minoxidil after 12 hours and I think it is helping me more.

I personally think we're on to something. Follica will one day make history, there's no doubt about that, but us that don't have the luxury of time can't wait until they are out. We should be able to replicate this and perfect it over time with experimentation.