New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[squeegee]

The inflammation, caused by PGD2 levels, leads to the summoning of macrophages, which start transforming the surrounding tissue into fibrotic collagen. Nothing new there.

By the way, guys, I have a sad report to make regarding all the enthusiastic "new hair from punch holes" reports: The holes you are seeing and from which your (new?) hair is growing are not derma rolling punch holes. I really wondered if neogenesis was possible just like this, and thus if just punching somewhere (where there was probably new follicle/DP before) seemed extremely unlikely. If the process was remotely deterministic, you shouldve had many more hair then.

Long story short, these holes are normal. They are the "mouth" of the hair shaft which always shows when a hair is spouting anew. Take a look at some cross sections of scalp biopsy tissue and you will see the hair shaft forming a tunnel up to the surface. This effect will even show when you get regrowth through minoxidil without any dermarolling.

Benjit! that is good news then! It just means that new hair are popping out!

 

[benjt]

I actually consider it bad news because it means that we are not getting a "distinguished effect" from dermarolling here, let alone neogenesis, but exactly the same effect as with minoxidil alone though faster/stronger. In my opinion, this implies that the rolling folks who posted these photos have the same effect as on minoxidil, only a bit stronger or faster than on minoxidil alone. But nothing additional, nothing new, nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time. And, most importantly, no neogenesis. Whatever hair shows this way was not yet completely dead, just like any hair revived by minoxidil.

 

[squeegee]

I actually consider it bad news because it means that we are not getting a "distinguished effect" from dermarolling here, let alone neogenesis, but exactly the same effect as with minoxidil alone though faster/stronger. In my opinion, this implies that the rolling folks who posted these photos have the same effect as on minoxidil, only a bit stronger or faster than on minoxidil alone. But nothing additional, nothing new, nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time. And, most importantly, no neogenesis. Whatever hair shows this way was not yet completely dead, just like any hair revived by minoxidil.

Why we need neogenesis? Every bald people here still have their follicles, they just need to be activated by the progenitor cells.

 

[ganonford]

I actually consider it bad news because it means that we are not getting a "distinguished effect" from dermarolling here, let alone neogenesis, but exactly the same effect as with minoxidil alone though faster/stronger. In my opinion, this implies that the rolling folks who posted these photos have the same effect as on minoxidil, only a bit stronger or faster than on minoxidil alone. But nothing additional, nothing new, nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time. And, most importantly, no neogenesis. Whatever hair shows this way was not yet completely dead, just like any hair revived by minoxidil.

But what about you...?

You said you manage to get yourself some hairs (albeit a very small quantity) even though you're not using minoxidil...?

What was that then...?

 

[squeegee]

People having success with peels without any Minoxidil on Immortal forum prove that Minoxidil is not needed to get results. minoxidil just helps to inhibit the extra collagen and getting blow flow in the area.

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9447p30-scalp-peeling-with-20-glycolic-acid-great-results

 

[Donc83]

Idk people. I have been rolling about seven weeks and see a little improvement. I know plenty of people started this back in July and are not reporting anything. I need to see some pictures. Good luck everyone. We need cb-03-01 to be on the market with the right vehicle.

 

[Jlyncher]

Nope. I'd like to but don't want to affect the outcome.

Same here, just curious.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Where do you buy colostrum? What is it and how do you apply or take it

 

[badgenetics1]

Idk people. I have been rolling about seven weeks and see a little improvement. I know plenty of people started this back in July and are not reporting anything. I need to see some pictures. Good luck everyone. We need cb-03-01 to be on the market with the right vehicle.

There have been several people with results - you just need to dig through all the pages to find the pictures. Look at my story (link in my sig), that has some before and after pictures. Dermarolling has been very successful for me.

 

[danawhite1]

if there is one thing about dermarolling is that the success stories you hear on the forums is 100% believable. why? because the thing costs 20 bucks! its not like with any other products that you might think there is a risk that success stories are false and employees of the product company comes on the site to show shooped pics of their false success to get you to pay hundreds for topical solutions. the dermaroller is 20 bucks and anyone who posts success stories here have no reason to falsify their results even if they dont have pics. they are just going out of their way to show us that it works, albeit it might not work for everyone, just like every single medication/treatment out there.

 

[opti]

some ppl are bald since 10 years or more.and you think that everything repairs after some weeks rollin?give it time.

if some ppl of you are nw1-3 and having bald temples,it s pretty clear that you dont get the best results though.Temples have always been the most f*** up baldin area to recover.there are only a handfull ppl who regrew their temples.And not even propecia,minoxidil,dutasteride are able to regrow that in like 99% of all hair loss cases.

 

[Jlyncher]

I actually consider it bad news because it means that we are not getting a "distinguished effect" from dermarolling here, let alone neogenesis, but exactly the same effect as with minoxidil alone though faster/stronger. In my opinion, this implies that the rolling folks who posted these photos have the same effect as on minoxidil, only a bit stronger or faster than on minoxidil alone. But nothing additional, nothing new, nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time. And, most importantly, no neogenesis. Whatever hair shows this way was not yet completely dead, just like any hair revived by minoxidil.

Nope. I have to respectfully disagree with you there Benjt. I'm definitely getting a "distinguished" effect from dermarolling, although we may not yet know the exact mode of action for this effect, be it neogenesis, regeneration or something else. As far as "nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time", I've been using minoxidil for 11 flippin years and I stopped seeing results many, many moons ago, and only continued use for fear of losing what I did gain. Now I'm seeing lots of terminals pop at, and beyond my current hairline and even more exciting, are the pigmented (albeit miniaturized) hairs appearing well below my hairline, in areas that didn't have hair when I was 16 yrs old (32 now). Nothing has ever had any effect whatsoever in these bald temple regions except dermarolling. I'm very excited to see what happens with these hairs in the next several months.

 

[squeegee]

I actually consider it bad news because it means that we are not getting a "distinguished effect" from dermarolling here, let alone neogenesis, but exactly the same effect as with minoxidil alone though faster/stronger. In my opinion, this implies that the rolling folks who posted these photos have the same effect as on minoxidil, only a bit stronger or faster than on minoxidil alone. But nothing additional, nothing new, nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time. And, most importantly, no neogenesis. Whatever hair shows this way was not yet completely dead, just like any hair revived by minoxidil.

It is a patience game. People nowadays wants results right away for everything. I want to be rich right now! I want a 6 packs in 20 minutes.. LOL. My hair improved greatly with the derma roller.. and I am only 15 weeks in the game. I can't imagine in a year or 2. It will just continue to improve.

This video shows that even with transplanted hair,it takes a while to see positive results. [video=youtube;r6YoqaGcIP0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6YoqaGcIP0#t=822[/video]

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Nope. I have to respectfully disagree with you there Benjt. I'm definitely getting a "distinguished" effect from dermarolling, although we may not yet know the exact mode of action for this effect, be it neogenesis, regeneration or something else. As far as "nothing that couldnt be achieved with minoxidil over a longer period of time", I've been using minoxidil for 11 flippin years and I stopped seeing results many, many moons ago, and only continued use for fear of losing what I did gain. Now I'm seeing lots of terminals pop at, and behind my current hairline and even more exciting, are the pigmented (albeit miniaturized) hairs appearing well below my hairline, in areas that didn't have hair when I was 16 yrs old. Nothing has ever had any effect whatsoever in these bald temple regions except dermarolling. I'm very excited to see what happens with these hairs in the next several months.

J.. I've been using minoxidil for years.. On and OFF with mix results. Last 2 years, no results whatsoever, I added the derma rolling to it.. Went through a massive shed, 15 weeks in, All I see is positive results. Temples are filling in, hair feels healthier. All I see is positive upcoming. This is bad ***! A little of pain, and patience is paying off!

 

[Donc83]

There have been several people with results - you just need to dig through all the pages to find the pictures. Look at my story (link in my sig), that has some before and after pictures. Dermarolling has been very successful for me.

First of all congrats on the regrowth, but it seems to me that it is mostly from finasteride and minoxidil. Unfortunately alot of us cannot take finasteride. But man keep it up. Thats why CB needs to go into trials soon.

 

[opti]

Its all about chronic inflammation i guess. Dht sensible follicles causing inflammation whoch results in tgf beta and fibroblasts which block every single free place .are Here some ppl using propecia or any other dht surpresser ? They should geht even bezter results with them .but without DR its almost impossible to break the perifolliculat fibrosis hard enough .dermarolling + keeping Away inflammation could be the cure. I guess once u broke up fibrosis u dont eveb need to roll again if ur able to catch dht or pgd2 od tgf beta ( yeah u can chose from them, one of them will stop building fibroblasts anyway)

@badgenetics: how u roll without pulling hair out ?

Edit 1: if lowerage of dht would let hair grow then propecia dutasteride etc would lat hair regrow immediately.but most likely propecia etc Start to work after 5-6 months .just against that theory that dht only causes miniaturisation

Edit 2: my question is: what is better : shedding skin in the Epidermis like squegee or breaiking collagen in the dermis .i experiender a superior shed when i went hard with a 0.5mm dr compared to a 1.5mm one.with the 1.5 mm one i didnt go AS hard and had like zero shed

 

[Donc83]

Wow I just took pictures of my head, and damn I did not realize it was this bad. I kept itching on my scalp and I got out of bed and went take these pics. I am going downhill fast. Wow truly feel like crap. I was itching like crazy. I wonder why I just rolled Monday and when I roll the itching goes away for a couple of days. I cannot believe male pattern baldness is still uncurable. I cannot take finasteride because the doctor told me not to if I ever want kids, but man I am thinking of biting the bullet. Nature made is putting out S equol in the next couple of months, but who knows if that will work. Truly depressed. Any pointers would be great. Thanks

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Wow I just took pictures of my head, and damn I did not realize it was this bad. I kept itching on my scalp and I got out of bed and went take these pics. I am going downhill fast. Wow truly feel like crap. I was itching like crazy. I wonder why I just rolled Monday and when I roll the itching goes away for a couple of days. I cannot believe male pattern baldness is still uncurable. I cannot take finasteride because the doctor told me not to if I ever want kids, but man I am thinking of biting the bullet. Nature made is putting out S equol in the next couple of months, but who knows if that will work. Truly depressed. Any pointers would be great. Thanks

 

[theRA]

I cannot take finasteride because the doctor told me not to if I ever want kids, but man I am thinking of biting the bullet.

did he even explain why or what is the process behind it or just said "dont take it if you ever want kids" ? Sounds.... weird

 

[Donc83]

No I had an accident when I was younger that affected my reproductive system. I may go get a second opinion though because he sounded very anti finasteride. He was a fertility doctor.

 

[persistentone]

People having success with peels without any Minoxidil on Immortal forum prove that Minoxidil is not needed to get results. minoxidil just helps to inhibit the extra collagen and getting blow flow in the area.

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9447p30-scalp-peeling-with-20-glycolic-acid-great-results

Nothing in that thread suggests there is any science to support peels without Minoxidil. And the photos supplied are not convincing either.

I'm trying a similar idea with topical urea on the scalp. It promotes healing of hyperkeratotic conditions. From online source "It may also be used for certain other skin conditions (eg, corns; calluses; rough, dry skin). Urea cream is a debriding agent. It works by helping the breakdown of dead skin and pus, which helps to loosen and shed hard and scaly skin."

So I'm using it to promote rapid turnover of skin on the scalp without causing any irritation. It's too early to tell if it will promote hair growth. Definitely the urea makes my hair curl, but that appears to be a superficial and short-term purely cosmetic side effect. If I wash my hair without applying urea, it staightens again.

 

[theRA]

Nothing in that thread suggests there is any science to support peels without Minoxidil. And the photos supplied are not convincing either.

I'm trying a similar idea with topical urea on the scalp. It promotes healing of hyperkeratotic conditions. From online source "It may also be used for certain other skin conditions (eg, corns; calluses; rough, dry skin). Urea cream is a debriding agent. It works by helping the breakdown of dead skin and pus, which helps to loosen and shed hard and scaly skin."

So I'm using it to promote rapid turnover of skin on the scalp without causing any irritation. It's too early to tell if it will promote hair growth. Definitely the urea makes my hair curl, but that appears to be a superficial and short-term purely cosmetic side effect. If I wash my hair without applying urea, it staightens again.

interesting, keep us posted if some good results come up