Mdv3100 (enzalutamide) - Superstrong Antiandrogen Topical | Page 21 | HairLossTalk Forums

Mdv3100 (enzalutamide) - Superstrong Antiandrogen Topical

Discussion in 'Antiandrogens - Propecia, Dutasteride, etc.' started by whatevr, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. ALightInTheDark

    ALightInTheDark Established Member My Regimen

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    So with all testers, how many failed at Enza topically, how many maintain and how many succed to grow something?
     
  2. kawnshawn

    kawnshawn Established Member

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    I'm going off the top of my head but the only people that have failed that I know of is me. A few guys quit because of sides. And maybe around 5 have claimed that its stop/reduced shedding and has caused some vellus hairs
     
  3. JLF

    JLF Established Member My Regimen

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    Just did my yearly blood check.
    PSA and testosterone levels were both within the normal range.
     
  4. FCKW36

    FCKW36 Established Member

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    Wow, I think there are some penetration problems with Enza. The vehicle is bs.
     
  5. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    Trust me, there are no penetration problems with DMSO.
    I got side effects from DMSO+PEG, but maybe some people have issues with that vehicle.
    One thing I can say is that it dries VERY slowly. It is possible that the PEG portion does not absorb at all.
    I had it on my head for 12+ hours and my head was still shimmering in the morning. I've never seen that with any kind of common mix like Eth + PG.

    PEG= polyethylene glycol
    PG = propylene glycol
    Just to clarify
     
  6. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    I hope you won't do Darolutamide orally, by the way. No matter what, don't do that.
    It won't be very cost-effective either.
     
  7. kawnshawn

    kawnshawn Established Member

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    Naw I'm not. It wouldn't be cost effective to do it orally. Would need a lot more than I could afford. Will do it topically.
     
  8. JLF

    JLF Established Member My Regimen

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    I have been using Enza since july 2017 now, so 6 months.
    Because I've build up my dose gradually, effects may take longer to kick in than 6 months.
    More or less one month ago I raised to 30mg daily.
    Recently raised my dose again to 45mg daily.
    Basically no real change so far.
    There still are vellus hairs over my whole left temple.
    The right temple is also getting some vellus hairs, but they are still extremely short.
    Until now these vellus hairs aren't turning terminal, which is kind of what I was hoping for of course.
    It might be that a piece (or many pieces) of the puzzle is missing.
    I havent been using UVB light every week so I'll be doing this weekly again, in order to keep my PGE2 levels raised.
    Of course real PGE2 topically would be much better, but sadly it's horribly expensive, so far no funds to buy this.
    I'm taking 0.5mg dutasteride daily now as well. This way the androgen part of the story should be 100% covered.
    If the vellus hairs don't go terminal. Clearly some other part of the puzzle is missing, which is not androgen based.
    There's a big chance that this is the case.
    This could result in lowering some doses of my androgen based substances.
    Which would clear up some funds for other experiments.
    So far no sides.
    I'm keeping a close eye on gyno development, since dutasteride daily has a strong systemic effect.
    Till now, none of my topicals seem to have affected me that much in getting systemic sides.
     
    #408 JLF, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  9. Aethas

    Aethas Established Member My Regimen

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    Maybe add some taurine!?
     
  10. JLF

    JLF Established Member My Regimen

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    Thanks for the advice.
    Not sure if that will really have a significant effect to be honest.
    I ordered some Lithium Chloride to add to the wounding.
    Wnt seems to be quite important, although LiCh is probably not the best compound to tackle it with...
     
  11. Aethas

    Aethas Established Member My Regimen

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    Well from feedback and forum from all over the internet! The only supplement that people tell that work is actualy taurine ahah


    And by the way if you guys responde good to Licl ill buy some to!! But i want you to check this? Another thing we could add before the wound session(so it penetrate the skin) or after
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093112/

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/878162/

    And this farm actualy sell the same thing they used and they sell you freeze so it stay good
    https://www.antlerfarms.com/
    if you try to check on internet people say its a scam for the increase in sport performance, it doesnt help your muscle, but study say its good for arthrite and knee and for the skeletic composition and heart, so logicaly should be good for hair. And if you try to check deeper theres some people saying they get back their hair while taking this but they dont know if its placebo effect! Tricky ahah and i cant find people in hair loss forum talking about this more in dept :/
     
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  12. hemingway_the_mercenary

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    I wish people would have just given up on RU. For all we know it does even bind to the AR strongly. There are other alternatives with much more research data that are shown to bind to the AR very strongly.

    I myself have tried Flutamide and spironolactone. In the very beginning I was trying RU but it did nothing for me so I stopped. I think Spironolactone is too weak and RU is too unknown. Very good alternatives would be Flutamide and Bicalutamide. Bicalutamide has a safer side effect profile but I've searched everywhere even the devil's asshole for this stuff and can't get it. Its genuinely getting to the poin where Im considering moving to a country where its not illegal to buy drugs to try it.
     
  13. itchymadscalp

    itchymadscalp Established Member My Regimen

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    Bicalutamide is weaker than DHT ... and can lead to overexpression of androgen receptors. Be careful. I did that mistake, I tried Bicalutamide ... now I'm losing hair and there is nothing I can do ... nothing works anymore.
     
  14. hemingway_the_mercenary

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    lol what are you talking about. Bicalutamide is significantly stronger binding affinity to the AR than DHT and it doesnt lead to overexpression of androgen receptors. You probably got something else
     
  15. itchymadscalp

    itchymadscalp Established Member My Regimen

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237
    "Prolonged treatment with bicalutamide induces androgen receptor overexpression and androgen hypersensitivity."

    If you really want Bicalutamide to work effectively against DHT you have to take high dose (50-100-150). But it won't work in a long term use. That's all.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2981508

    "bicalutamide has relatively low affinity for AR (at least 30-fold reduced relative to the natural ligand dihydrotestosterone (DHT))"

    You don't want to believe me ? Ok ... I don't mind : your life, your mistakes. I just wanted to warn you, you do whatever you want ;)
     
  16. hemingway_the_mercenary

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    wow, looks like you were right. thanks for sharing, I thought I had seen that bicalutamide has a much stronger binding affinity than DHT but looks like I must have misread idk

    isnt the hypersensitivity issue for prostate cancer cells only, that would make sense me. Otherwise that would be very worrying and could be a possible side effect from all other non steroidal anti androgens (which would mean we are fucked).

    are there any other sources that talk about Bicalutamide androgen receptor affinity?
     
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  17. hemingway_the_mercenary

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    I also found this. Its very unclear if the restance is due to Bicalutamide itself on any cell with an AR or only to prostate cancer cells

    Niclosamide and Bicalutamide Combination Treatment Overcomes Enzalutamide- and Bicalutamide-Resistant Prostate Cancer.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28500234

    edit:

    @itchymadscalp upon further research I found that even spirinolactone has a stornger AR affinity than flutamide but the high levels of flutamide molecules circulating compensate for this and make it much stronger than spironolactone. Otherwise, it would have almost no effect on your body as DHT is almost 10x as strong as testosterone which would mean that bicalutamide could not even out-compete testosterone making completely useless
    obviously this is not the case
     
    #417 hemingway_the_mercenary, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
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  18. itchymadscalp

    itchymadscalp Established Member My Regimen

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  19. JLF

    JLF Established Member My Regimen

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  20. sito

    sito Member

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    If that's the case then probably the same applies to ru since they are similar. In 2012 when I first added RU as a treatment I had great results, even regrowth without any (noticable) sides. But after a year I started loosing again ground, and it felt like it isn't working anymore.

    Maybe a cycle would counteract an AR overexpression, but with broscience we won't be able to find a good cycle regimen (if even any exist). There is a lack of studies on this matter
     

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