It's Official - I Am Genetically Resistant To Both Finasteride & Dutasteride

[Kornel]

Yeah they definitely do, while I am still shedding since being on cyproterone I have had small intervals of noticeably reduced shedding.. Which never happened at all during the 5 and a half month shed before using cypro.. I'm hoping that its just my body getting used to the drug and the shed will stop soon, its only been about 37 days so I guess I have plenty of time. My itch is also somewhat reduced.
Its a shame so many guys are scared of AAs. Maybe its just me but I don't think the sides are that big of a deal, my life is still pretty much exactly the same, I am able to do everything I could before treatment, except shoot a load lol ( TMI?)
Georgie if your DHT really did go up then maybe its time to stop dutasteride since its not helping. You may find success using your other treatments without 5ar inhibitors?

What's your daily dose of CPA?

 

[Georgie]

Yeah they definitely do, while I am still shedding since being on cyproterone I have had small intervals of noticeably reduced shedding.. Which never happened at all during the 5 and a half month shed before using cypro.. I'm hoping that its just my body getting used to the drug and the shed will stop soon, its only been about 37 days so I guess I have plenty of time. My itch is also somewhat reduced.
Its a shame so many guys are scared of AAs. Maybe its just me but I don't think the sides are that big of a deal, my life is still pretty much exactly the same, I am able to do everything I could before treatment, except shoot a load lol ( TMI?)
Georgie if your DHT really did go up then maybe its time to stop dutasteride since its not helping. You may find success using your other treatments without 5ar inhibitors?

Yeah I stopped taking duta like a week ago and I’m waiting on some flutamide and equol.

Honestly, nothing has truly helped. minoxidil has regrown some hair but it also makes me shed 3 x the amount and it’s not constant growth. Stops and starts all the time. Nothing else works. Actually I was just lying awake in bed thinking about how I’m essentially screwed given all the things I’ve tried and failed with. I told myself that once I’d come to the end of any possible hope I would end things. I truly just want to die now. I’m so f*****g tired of this bullshit.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

Yeah I stopped taking duta like a week ago and I’m waiting on some flutamide and equol.

Honestly, nothing has truly helped. minoxidil has regrown some hair but it also makes me shed 3 x the amount and it’s not constant growth. Stops and starts all the time. Nothing else works. Actually I was just lying awake in bed thinking about how I’m essentially screwed given all the things I’ve tried and failed with. I told myself that once I’d come to the end of any possible hope I would end things. I truly just want to die now. I’m so f*****g tired of this bullshit.

Something eventually will work Georgie, the miniaturisation is happening for some reason(s) you just need to figure what that is out. I know the feels with treatment not working, although I've not tried as much as you have I have used my fair share of treatments. Have you thought about experimenting with no treatments for a while? If nothing seems to help then maybe its a different problem. Your hair loss should progress just the same without if the treatments were completely ineffective. I know you said you had a doctor look at your hair but if its 95% likelihood of androgenic alopecia then that's likely what the doctor would say without investigating much further. Maybe you have something different? I can understand how some treatments may not work for it due to different genetics and body chemistry but you've tried a vast majority of anti androgens and I don't believe for a second you were a non responder to all of them. I could probably get my hair back if I went full blown trans regimen like bridgeburn but that's a bit too far for me lol (and expensive!) so I'll make do and experiment. I know you don't want to wear a wig ( I don't either ) but if its the only option left available then its better than going around bald. I'm sure we'll work this one out eventually!

 

[countjulian]

Yeah I stopped taking duta like a week ago and I’m waiting on some flutamide and equol.

Honestly, nothing has truly helped. minoxidil has regrown some hair but it also makes me shed 3 x the amount and it’s not constant growth. Stops and starts all the time. Nothing else works. Actually I was just lying awake in bed thinking about how I’m essentially screwed given all the things I’ve tried and failed with. I told myself that once I’d come to the end of any possible hope I would end things. I truly just want to die now. I’m so f*****g tired of this bullshit.

If you're dead you can't find a cure for yourself. You've fought too hard to ever let this thing beat you Georgie. As long as you draw breath it's not over. So what if you have to wear a wig for 5 years, as long as you're alive I'm sure there is a chance you will find the cure.

 

[itsjustsimon]

Well at least you are finding some success now. Holding ground before NW3 is vital for facial framing and having decent hairstyles. I hope things get better for you.

It could be that or it could be the dramatic increase in testosterone. I don't care what anybody says testosterone does contribute to male pattern baldness, I've seen it. Perhaps try an anti androgen to see if you can block the T and DHT from binding to your receptors, in theory that should solve the problem.

I’m adding RU as soon as I get my finances back on track. Hope this will block scalp testosterone if that’s what causing the damage. I simply don’t find any other explanation.

 

[Georgie]

Something eventually will work Georgie, the miniaturisation is happening for some reason(s) you just need to figure what that is out. I know the feels with treatment not working, although I've not tried as much as you have I have used my fair share of treatments. Have you thought about experimenting with no treatments for a while? If nothing seems to help then maybe its a different problem. Your hair loss should progress just the same without if the treatments were completely ineffective. I know you said you had a doctor look at your hair but if its 95% likelihood of androgenic alopecia then that's likely what the doctor would say without investigating much further. Maybe you have something different? I can understand how some treatments may not work for it due to different genetics and body chemistry but you've tried a vast majority of anti androgens and I don't believe for a second you were a non responder to all of them. I could probably get my hair back if I went full blown trans regimen like bridgeburn but that's a bit too far for me lol (and expensive!) so I'll make do and experiment. I know you don't want to wear a wig ( I don't either ) but if its the only option left available then its better than going around bald. I'm sure we'll work this one out eventually!

Ok a few things:

1. I let my hairloss go untreated for almost 2 years because I wanted to see if it spontaneously got better. It only ever got worse rapidly.

2. In that period, I did try minoxidil for a bit then stopped. My hairloss was as bad as ever after.

3. During the periods (like right now) where minoxidil simply stops regrowing any hair for no reason that I can see, I believe I get a glimpse into what my hair would be doing if I wasn’t on it. That is, falling out, not growing back, decreasing my density even worse than ever before, and leaving my with significant miniturisation and recession of the hairline which actually gets worse every single day. You wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it. It’s f*****g bizarre.

4. I tried spironolactone at 200mg for 9 months, and infact started using it and diane35 before I started oral minoxidil, and in the time I used those two things they did nothing. I used avodart for 6 months and my hair got significantly worse in that period. I used daro and RU, and the same things always occurred. Never a single reduction in shedding or new hair grown. I even tried seti at up to 1.5g without a single change. People use as little 200mg and see a reduction in shedding. It would actually appear that I am genetically resistant to these treatments.

5. I have used drugs which treat autoimmune hairloss, just to see if maybe what I have isn’t purely Androgenetic Alopecia. Didn’t do sh*t.

6. I have tried NATURAL estrogen, did nothing.

7. I have had full iron blood infusions, taken vitamin D, B vitamins, zinc, calcium, iodine, liver support, coenzymes, collagen, cysteine, topical amino acids, topical collagen boosters, serious wounding, stemoxydine, t-flavanone, aminexil - the list is endless. None of them did anything.

So where does that leave me? Genetically fucked. I have come to realise by looking at my parents that I have the perfect combination is sh*t DNA to cause this. Why don’t my siblings have the same problem? Because they never had full blown sex hormone shut down to kick start it like I have. My father has fluff for hair all over his body. Everywhere is silky fine. My mother, after menopause, thinned significantly, in particular around her whole hairline and on her face. She doesn’t have Androgenetic Alopecia, so she didn’t recede. I have my fathers Androgenetic Alopecia, plus my mothers shitty menopausal hairloss. So I get global thinning plus miniturisation and recession. That’s the answer. Why don’t antiandrogens work? Because I’m a freak. Case closed.

 

[michel sapin]

even if dht level is low , that doesn't mean getting result !
i took many blood test , and on with finasteride ( 1 mg or 5 mg ) my dht level dropped to the extra low range ; even lower than pseudo hermaprhodite ;
despite this i didn't get resutl

 

[countjulian]

Ok a few things:

1. I let my hairloss go untreated for almost 2 years because I wanted to see if it spontaneously got better. It only ever got worse rapidly.

2. In that period, I did try minoxidil for a bit then stopped. My hairloss was as bad as ever after.

3. During the periods (like right now) where minoxidil simply stops regrowing any hair for no reason that I can see, I believe I get a glimpse into what my hair would be doing if I wasn’t on it. That is, falling out, not growing back, decreasing my density even worse than ever before, and leaving my with significant miniturisation and recession of the hairline which actually gets worse every single day. You wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it. It’s f*****g bizarre.

4. I tried spironolactone at 200mg for 9 months, and infact started using it and diane35 before I started oral minoxidil, and in the time I used those two things they did nothing. I used avodart for 6 months and my hair got significantly worse in that period. I used daro and RU, and the same things always occurred. Never a single reduction in shedding or new hair grown. I even tried seti at up to 1.5g without a single change. People use as little 200mg and see a reduction in shedding. It would actually appear that I am genetically resistant to these treatments.

5. I have used drugs which treat autoimmune hairloss, just to see if maybe what I have isn’t purely Androgenetic Alopecia. Didn’t do sh*t.

6. I have tried NATURAL estrogen, did nothing.

7. I have had full iron blood infusions, taken vitamin D, B vitamins, zinc, calcium, iodine, liver support, coenzymes, collagen, cysteine, topical amino acids, topical collagen boosters, serious wounding, stemoxydine, t-flavanone, aminexil - the list is endless. None of them did anything.

So where does that leave me? Genetically fucked. I have come to realise by looking at my parents that I have the perfect combination is sh*t DNA to cause this. Why don’t my siblings have the same problem? Because they never had full blown sex hormone shut down to kick start it like I have. My father has fluff for hair all over his body. Everywhere is silky fine. My mother, after menopause, thinned significantly, in particular around her whole hairline and on her face. She doesn’t have Androgenetic Alopecia, so she didn’t recede. I have my fathers Androgenetic Alopecia, plus my mothers shitty menopausal hairloss. So I get global thinning plus miniturisation and recession. That’s the answer. Why don’t antiandrogens work? Because I’m a freak. Case closed.

You're not a freak Georgie, everyone is different. You're f*****g smart as hell, you'll figure out the solution if you give it time.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I’m adding RU as soon as I get my finances back on track. Hope this will block scalp testosterone if that’s what causing the damage. I simply don’t find any other explanation.

If Androgenic Alopecia is truly caused by androgens then there isn't any other explanation. Good luck!

Ok a few things:

1. I let my hairloss go untreated for almost 2 years because I wanted to see if it spontaneously got better. It only ever got worse rapidly.

2. In that period, I did try minoxidil for a bit then stopped. My hairloss was as bad as ever after.

3. During the periods (like right now) where minoxidil simply stops regrowing any hair for no reason that I can see, I believe I get a glimpse into what my hair would be doing if I wasn’t on it. That is, falling out, not growing back, decreasing my density even worse than ever before, and leaving my with significant miniturisation and recession of the hairline which actually gets worse every single day. You wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it. It’s f*****g bizarre.

4. I tried spironolactone at 200mg for 9 months, and infact started using it and diane35 before I started oral minoxidil, and in the time I used those two things they did nothing. I used avodart for 6 months and my hair got significantly worse in that period. I used daro and RU, and the same things always occurred. Never a single reduction in shedding or new hair grown. I even tried seti at up to 1.5g without a single change. People use as little 200mg and see a reduction in shedding. It would actually appear that I am genetically resistant to these treatments.

5. I have used drugs which treat autoimmune hairloss, just to see if maybe what I have isn’t purely Androgenetic Alopecia. Didn’t do sh*t.

6. I have tried NATURAL estrogen, did nothing.

7. I have had full iron blood infusions, taken vitamin D, B vitamins, zinc, calcium, iodine, liver support, coenzymes, collagen, cysteine, topical amino acids, topical collagen boosters, serious wounding, stemoxydine, t-flavanone, aminexil - the list is endless. None of them did anything.

So where does that leave me? Genetically fucked. I have come to realise by looking at my parents that I have the perfect combination is sh*t DNA to cause this. Why don’t my siblings have the same problem? Because they never had full blown sex hormone shut down to kick start it like I have. My father has fluff for hair all over his body. Everywhere is silky fine. My mother, after menopause, thinned significantly, in particular around her whole hairline and on her face. She doesn’t have Androgenetic Alopecia, so she didn’t recede. I have my fathers Androgenetic Alopecia, plus my mothers shitty menopausal hairloss. So I get global thinning plus miniturisation and recession. That’s the answer. Why don’t antiandrogens work? Because I’m a freak. Case closed.

I'm terribly sorry to hear that Something will eventually come out Georgie,even if its not chemical treatments hair cloning would be as close to a cure as we will get! As long as you have one single healthy follicle ( and I'm sure you've at least got a few ) you could permenantly fix your problem. Obviously this treatment is still a fair few years away but at least its some hope to cling on to. Please don't ever consider ending your life, there are other options.. Also what would we do without you on hairlosstalk? No more Georgie is like peanut butter without jelly, it simply can't happen!
Keep fighting the good fight, it will get better someday.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

even if dht level is low , that doesn't mean getting result !
i took many blood test , and on with finasteride ( 1 mg or 5 mg ) my dht level dropped to the extra low range ; even lower than pseudo hermaprhodite ;
despite this i didn't get resutl

Maybe its testosterone related?

 

[Georgie]

You're not a freak Georgie, everyone is different. You're f*****g smart as hell, you'll figure out the solution if you give it time.

Thanks mate.
Some days I feel like I have the will to find the answers and some days it feels like I should just pack it in.

 

[Georgie]

If Androgenic Alopecia is truly caused by androgens then there isn't any other explanation. Good luck!

I'm terribly sorry to hear that Something will eventually come out Georgie,even if its not chemical treatments hair cloning would be as close to a cure as we will get! As long as you have one single healthy follicle ( and I'm sure you've at least got a few ) you could permenantly fix your problem. Obviously this treatment is still a fair few years away but at least its some hope to cling on to. Please don't ever consider ending your life, there are other options.. Also what would we do without you on hairlosstalk? No more Georgie is like peanut butter without jelly, it simply can't happen!
Keep fighting the good fight, it will get better someday.

Thank you <3

 

[real kombo]

I have to disagree, from what I've seen online roughly only 1 in 3 people using dutasteride got positive results. The ones that did got remarkable results. The others claimed it either made their situation worse than what it would have been without treatment or it just simply didn't work. I've noticed most people who use dutasteride have previously been finasteride non responders so it makes sense why it didn't work for them. If finasteride is an 83% success rate then I'm guessing dutasteride isn't much better at maybe 86-87%

How do you go from saying Dutasteride works for 1 in 3 people to saying it has an over 85% success rate? XD.

The overwhelming majority of dutasteride failures are people who quit before a year and a half, and most of that within 6 months! Imo you need at least one full year on a medication to assess results. For most of the success stories that you see, dutasteride shined for them at the 1 year mark, and just got better and better for them.

 

[Retinoid]

Georgie it is disheartening to read this.

I know it makes men feel bad but for women hair loss is much more traumatic. For men it is just so common that I wonder why we even care.

But we do. And I love my hair enormously and thought it was always safe. So I have been going through emotional trauma and understand how it feels to think we are almost disfigured and you just want to hide away.

Everyone experiences in their life where their looks degrade and if you are attached to this, then it is sad and traumatic. Some people are born disfigured, some people get disfigured when they are a teen by severe cystic acne and scarring, some people lose their hair when they are in their 20s, some lose their hair or gets severe wrinkling when they are 40. Point is, we all go through it and this is our time. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it, but we also need to detach and realize we are not our bodies no more than we are our cars when we are driving it.

Watching movies about AIDS in the 80s, cancer, loss has been very therapeutic for me through the process. We always know that we will get older and get sick and our looks will go down the drain but to actually FEEL and go through it, as we are now, is a whole other thing. We also need to accept it is inevitable. Not optional. Even all the money in the world won't prevent it.

 

[infinitepain]

Maybe its testosterone related?

My theory in cases where DHT is lowered a lot but still no halting of hairloss is the dutasteride may not be going to the scalp in big quantities and it's mostly distributed elsewhere... remember that DHT is also produced in the scalp for some stupid reason. We would need a way to test DHT levels on the scalp... but it's also possible it just doesn't work for other reasons

And @IdealForehead case is weird because he doesnt report sides or DHT serum lowering or hairloss halting.. so it sounds as if he wasn't even interacing with the drug.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

My theory in cases where DHT is lowered a lot but still no halting of hairloss is the dutasteride may not be going to the scalp in big quantities and it's mostly distributed elsewhere... remember that DHT is also produced in the scalp for some stupid reason. We would need a way to test DHT levels on the scalp... but it's also possible it just doesn't work for other reasons

And @IdealForehead case is weird because he doesnt report sides or DHT serum lowering or hairloss halting.. so it sounds as if he wasn't even interacing with the drug.

Interesting theory.. One of the more plausible and sensible ones I've heard! This should be looked into. Effective topical and internal DHT inhibitors combined could very well solve the problem for many people, look more into it.

 

[infinitepain]

Interesting theory.. One of the more plausible and sensible ones I've heard! This should be looked into. Effective topical and internal DHT inhibitors combined could very well solve the problem for many people, look more into it.

The problem is, it's impossible to not have sides if you need to lower your DHT to 70% internally (or even 95% in the case of oral dutasteride).

 

[AnxiousAndy]

The problem is, it's impossible to not have sides if you need to lower your DHT to 70% internally (or even 95% in the case of oral dutasteride).

Sides aren't a deal breaker for me, I'm currently infertile. Still losing my hair though.. Damn!

 

[spollardo]

I have to disagree, from what I've seen online roughly only 1 in 3 people using dutasteride got positive results. The ones that did got remarkable results. The others claimed it either made their situation worse than what it would have been without treatment or it just simply didn't work. I've noticed most people who use dutasteride have previously been finasteride non responders so it makes sense why it didn't work for them. If finasteride is an 83% success rate then I'm guessing dutasteride isn't much better at maybe 86-87%

To be fair, the kind of people that don't get results are the one more likely to stick around and keep posting online. So there's a bias there. The studies show that dutasteride has better results than finasteride.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

To be fair, the kind of people that don't get results are the one more likely to stick around and keep posting online. So there's a bias there. The studies show that dutasteride has better results than finasteride.

You are right yes, but that's not what I meant. I meant to mention that these people initially post that they are going to start/have just started dutasteride and by following their forum posts or threads overtime it reveals it usually doesn't work. Makes me think there is more to male pattern baldness than just androgens.. No, actually I'm positive. As someone who has little to no testosterone and DHT in their body I can confirm I'm still losing my hair just as fast as before. You could argue I'm not a responder but when Im experiencing literally every other side effect besides hair regrowth or maintenance it seems to show otherwise. We need more funding into this shitty genetic disease because I'm sick of feeding my body all these chemicals with no f*****g results.