It's Official - I Am Genetically Resistant To Both Finasteride & Dutasteride

IdealForehead

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Finasteride was the first hair loss treatment I tried. I took it at 1.25 mg a day for 11 months and noticed continued shedding with no side effects or positive effects. Once i realized this was failing me, I switched to dutasteride 0.5 mg for 11 months and again noticed nothing at all. In both cases, I was using proper, legit drugs from the biggest pharmacy chain in my area.

After failure on dutasteride, I couldn't understand what was happening, so I got my DHT levels checked. If dutasteride is working, even after just a few doses, it should drop your DHT to <10% of its normal levels. However, my DHT levels were completely normal.

I couldn't figure out what this meant, but I then went on to try brand name Avodart (still no change in DHT), and then high dose Avodart ie. 2.5 mg per day (still no change in DHT). Nothing with this drug seemed to work.

I at that point gave up on both drugs, and switched to RU. RU slowed my hair loss for 2 years but didn't stop it. I then tried spironolactone, cypro, and landed on topical daro which I've been most happy with of all.

I just had some major hair surgery 1.5 months ago, so I couldn't apply my topicals as well in that time frame. I thought that this would be a good time to try some high dose finasteride at 5 mg with a before/after DHT level to see whether that would work at suppressing my DHT. I figured it might give me some extra protection while I was struggling to apply topicals.

However, after one month of high dose finasteride (5 mg per day), my DHT level was 88% of my pre-finasteride dose. Ie. A month of finasteride 5 mg daily only reduced my DHT by 12%, which could easily also just be random fluctuation. Both readings (pre and post) were around 2/3 of the upper normal limit.

I think all this demonstrates that it is physically possible to be genetically resistant to 5-AR inhibitors. I presume there's something unique about my 5-AR enzyme that prevents these meds from binding to it and blocking it. I have no idea how common or rare this is. I saw one guy once post about the same thing on a hair forum with a similar story, so I know I'm at least not the ONLY one.

The point is, if you're still losing hair on finasteride or dutasteride, it might be wise to get your blood DHT levels checked. If your DHT is not dropping, you might be in the same boat as me, and these drugs might not be effective options for you at any dose. If your DHT is not dropping, there is no point in the medication, as it is then not performing its desired activity at all.

For reference, this is what's supposed to happen to blood DHT levels with finasteride:

4339b1153d3c81f12fb43fddf996775e.png

& here is what's supposed to happen with dutasteride:
ScreenShot2013-06-13at32235PM_zpsaea0c3b0.png
 

hopeforhappiness

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I think this is good advice to anyone considering switching to duta or dropping finasteride.

As a side note can I ask at what dose RU slowed your loss and how you were able to gauge that ?
 

TK421

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Sounds like I'm in the same boat. Tried finasteride (1 mg./day of brand name propecia) for 11 months and had bad shedding throughout so I quit. Never had bloodwork done during that time so I have no idea what my DHT levels were. Where do you get daro from? What quantities do you use?
 

IdealForehead

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Sounds like I'm in the same boat. Tried finasteride (1 mg./day of brand name propecia) for 11 months and had bad shedding throughout so I quit. Never had bloodwork done during that time so I have no idea what my DHT levels were. Where do you get daro from? What quantities do you use?

You could still try dutasteride and get your DHT checked on it. Even just take it 2-4 weeks and then check. 99%+ of men respond to dutasteride and at least it is approved for hair loss in a few countries.
 

sunchyme1

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@IdealForehead during your latest test with finasteride, did you get any sides? i remember you saying you thought your sex drive was down a bit
 

AnxiousAndy

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Hey @IdealForehead I think I'm in the same boat as you. I can't get my DHT levels checked unfortunately nor have I tried dutasteride but with finasteride I noticed no slow down or growth at all, possibly an acceleration of my male pattern baldness. How long did it take before you started to see results? I've been on my new regimen for about 35 days now and my shedding fluctuates randomly. When I first started the shedding was bad then about 2 weeks in it decreased noticeably, a week later of lesser shedding it went back up again and the last few days it has dropped but now its increased AGAIN!!
My shedding isn't terrible ( for my standards ) but its still over 100 hairs a day right now, I've only dipped below that a couple of times and not by much since starting my new treatments. My hairloss has definitely progressed these last 35 days and I'm not sure what to do.. Any advice??
 

CodyJ

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Did you get sides from finasteride or dutasteride? Since you said no, I wonder if RU will do anything
 
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AnxiousAndy

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99%+ of men respond to dutasteride.
I have to disagree, from what I've seen online roughly only 1 in 3 people using dutasteride got positive results. The ones that did got remarkable results. The others claimed it either made their situation worse than what it would have been without treatment or it just simply didn't work. I've noticed most people who use dutasteride have previously been finasteride non responders so it makes sense why it didn't work for them. If finasteride is an 83% success rate then I'm guessing dutasteride isn't much better at maybe 86-87%
 

Alex Contee

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I have to disagree, from what I've seen online roughly only 1 in 3 people using dutasteride got positive results. The ones that did got remarkable results. The others claimed it either made their situation worse than what it would have been without treatment or it just simply didn't work. I've noticed most people who use dutasteride have previously been finasteride non responders so it makes sense why it didn't work for them. If finasteride is an 83% success rate then I'm guessing dutasteride isn't much better at maybe 86-87%
When he says "respond", he doesn't mean their hairloss was halted. dutasteride greatly suppressed my DHT and yet I kept on losing hair.
 

AnxiousAndy

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When he says "respond", he doesn't mean their hairloss was halted. dutasteride greatly suppressed my DHT and yet I kept on losing hair.
Hmm its possible that's what he meant, we'll just have to wait til he replies lol. Did you find your hairloss slowed down or anything?
 

Alex Contee

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Hmm its possible that's what he meant, we'll just have to wait til he replies lol. Did you find your hairloss slowed down or anything?
It's so hard to tell. I continued to thin but I believed the pace slowed. I'm kind of sticking around a Norwood 2.5 and I have been balding for over 10 years. My cousins on my moms side both went completely bald by the time they were 25.

I eventually had to switch back to finasteride because the ED and brain fog were too much. I increased my RU from once a day at 50mg/ml to twice at 80mg/ml + tempol. I also added OC topical. I really have no idea how effective these have been but I am at least sort of maintaining since I have switched back.
 

Georgie

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Finasteride was the first hair loss treatment I tried. I took it at 1.25 mg a day for 11 months and noticed continued shedding with no side effects or positive effects. Once i realized this was failing me, I switched to dutasteride 0.5 mg for 11 months and again noticed nothing at all. In both cases, I was using proper, legit drugs from the biggest pharmacy chain in my area.

After failure on dutasteride, I couldn't understand what was happening, so I got my DHT levels checked. If dutasteride is working, even after just a few doses, it should drop your DHT to <10% of its normal levels. However, my DHT levels were completely normal.

I couldn't figure out what this meant, but I then went on to try brand name Avodart (still no change in DHT), and then high dose Avodart ie. 2.5 mg per day (still no change in DHT). Nothing with this drug seemed to work.

I at that point gave up on both drugs, and switched to RU. RU slowed my hair loss for 2 years but didn't stop it. I then tried spironolactone, cypro, and landed on topical daro which I've been most happy with of all.

I just had some major hair surgery 1.5 months ago, so I couldn't apply my topicals as well in that time frame. I thought that this would be a good time to try some high dose finasteride at 5 mg with a before/after DHT level to see whether that would work at suppressing my DHT. I figured it might give me some extra protection while I was struggling to apply topicals.

However, after one month of high dose finasteride (5 mg per day), my DHT level was 88% of my pre-finasteride dose. Ie. A month of finasteride 5 mg daily only reduced my DHT by 12%, which could easily also just be random fluctuation. Both readings (pre and post) were around 2/3 of the upper normal limit.

I think all this demonstrates that it is physically possible to be genetically resistant to 5-AR inhibitors. I presume there's something unique about my 5-AR enzyme that prevents these meds from binding to it and blocking it. I have no idea how common or rare this is. I saw one guy once post about the same thing on a hair forum with a similar story, so I know I'm at least not the ONLY one.

The point is, if you're still losing hair on finasteride or dutasteride, it might be wise to get your blood DHT levels checked. If your DHT is not dropping, you might be in the same boat as me, and these drugs might not be effective options for you at any dose. If your DHT is not dropping, there is no point in the medication, as it is then not performing its desired activity at all.

For reference, this is what's supposed to happen to blood DHT levels with finasteride:

View attachment 88332
& here is what's supposed to happen with dutasteride:
View attachment 88333
My dht levels have gone up on avodart. I can totally get how this theory works. I think those of us who fail 5AR’s May do better on pure antiandrogens, but that’s a big MAY.
 

itsjustsimon

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My dht levels have gone up on avodart. I can totally get how this theory works. I think those of us who fail 5AR’s May do better on pure antiandrogens, but that’s a big MAY.

f***. That got me worried that duta is doing more harm than good ( which is actually pretty obvious on my head lol )
 

Georgie

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f***. That got me worried that duta is doing more harm than good ( which is actually pretty obvious on my head lol )
It’s hard to know if it would have been this way without it, but I can safely say it’s done sweet f*** all in terms of positive results
 

AnxiousAndy

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It's so hard to tell. I continued to thin but I believed the pace slowed. I'm kind of sticking around a Norwood 2.5 and I have been balding for over 10 years. My cousins on my moms side both went completely bald by the time they were 25.

I eventually had to switch back to finasteride because the ED and brain fog were too much. I increased my RU from once a day at 50mg/ml to twice at 80mg/ml + tempol. I also added OC topical. I really have no idea how effective these have been but I am at least sort of maintaining since I have switched back.
Well at least you are finding some success now. Holding ground before NW3 is vital for facial framing and having decent hairstyles. I hope things get better for you.
f***. That got me worried that duta is doing more harm than good ( which is actually pretty obvious on my head lol )
It could be that or it could be the dramatic increase in testosterone. I don't care what anybody says testosterone does contribute to male pattern baldness, I've seen it. Perhaps try an anti androgen to see if you can block the T and DHT from binding to your receptors, in theory that should solve the problem.
 

Georgie

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Well at least you are finding some success now. Holding ground before NW3 is vital for facial framing and having decent hairstyles. I hope things get better for you.

It could be that or it could be the dramatic increase in testosterone. I don't care what anybody says testosterone does contribute to male pattern baldness, I've seen it. Perhaps try an anti androgen to see if you can block the T and DHT from binding to your receptors, in theory that should solve the problem.
I actually have that thought in the back of my mind as well, and we see how antiandrogens often work better than 5AR’s except that most men won’t take them because of the extreme side effects.
 

AnxiousAndy

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I actually have that thought in the back of my mind as well, and we see how antiandrogens often work better than 5AR’s except that most men won’t take them because of the extreme side effects.
Yeah they definitely do, while I am still shedding since being on cyproterone I have had small intervals of noticeably reduced shedding.. Which never happened at all during the 5 and a half month shed before using cypro.. I'm hoping that its just my body getting used to the drug and the shed will stop soon, its only been about 37 days so I guess I have plenty of time. My itch is also somewhat reduced.
Its a shame so many guys are scared of AAs. Maybe its just me but I don't think the sides are that big of a deal, my life is still pretty much exactly the same, I am able to do everything I could before treatment, except shoot a load lol ( TMI?)
Georgie if your DHT really did go up then maybe its time to stop dutasteride since its not helping. You may find success using your other treatments without 5ar inhibitors?
 
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