Brains Expel Hair
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Technically you can both be right here. One of the listed common side effects for estrogen creams and pills is hair loss.
Insulin resistance, PCOS, and male pattern baldness
- Thread starter Broons85
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Hoppi
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It just seems illogical how if estrogen is linked to prostate enlargement and prostate enlargement apparently correlates quite precisely with severity of male pattern baldness, how can estrogen have no link at all to male pattern baldness?
However, this is based on a small number of studies and it's not set in stone, it's just a general suspicion that seems to have some scientific logic behind it.
However, this is based on a small number of studies and it's not set in stone, it's just a general suspicion that seems to have some scientific logic behind it.
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Hoppi said:
As I've told you before several times, prostate enlargement doesn't "correlate quite precisely" with severity of male pattern baldness, except in the very loose sense that they both tend to get worse with age. Wrinkles tend to get worse with age, too. Do you think it's "logical" that wrinkles somehow cause male pattern baldness?
Many of us have known guys who have started balding very early in their lives; I used to know a boy who lived down the street from me, and he was balding as a teenager, many decades before his prostate was ever an issue.
By the way, I have a separate issue for you: what effect do you think estrogen has on body hair, not scalp hair?
Hoppi said:
I think that's the kind of suspicion a child would have, not a doctor or scientist. There are no studies at all I'm aware of which made a claim similar to the one you keep making about estrogen supposedly causing male pattern baldness. In fact, the scientific evidence seems to be growing that estrogen protects scalp hair, and stimulates its growth.
Hoppi
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still though, this is a discussion for another day
I can't even be sure myself, so me endlessly saying "I am suspicious and intend to look into it further" over and over again is not going to be very useful to anyone but me lol
But yes, "High carb and particularly high sugar diets are unnatural for humans, and lead to excessively high insulin levels which in some way encourage or cause male pattern baldness, and possibly PCOS in women." Discuss.
lol
I can't even be sure myself, so me endlessly saying "I am suspicious and intend to look into it further" over and over again is not going to be very useful to anyone but me lol
But yes, "High carb and particularly high sugar diets are unnatural for humans, and lead to excessively high insulin levels which in some way encourage or cause male pattern baldness, and possibly PCOS in women." Discuss.
lol
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Hoppi said:still though, this is a discussion for another day
I can't even be sure myself, so me endlessly saying "I am suspicious and intend to look into it further" over and over again is not going to be very useful to anyone but me lol
So why do you keep repeating this silliness about estrogen and male pattern baldness on a fairly regular basis? Why don't you start paying attention to what doctors and scientists say about it?
linkoq
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i like this thread .
so if someone need to lose somewhere between 40 to 50 pounds , better do it on high Vegetable Diet only with some Fruit and protein ( like tuna ) .
do you think 40 - 50 pounds Overweight person can improve his hair with this diet
?
thank you
so if someone need to lose somewhere between 40 to 50 pounds , better do it on high Vegetable Diet only with some Fruit and protein ( like tuna ) .
do you think 40 - 50 pounds Overweight person can improve his hair with this diet
?
thank you
billythekid
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from my observations, losing lots of weight accelerates hair loss. it may have something to do with burning fat and the increase in free radicals or a change in hormone levels, or both.
you see it on those weight-loss tv shows. obese guy with good hair, drops weight, starts to lose hair also.
you see it on those weight-loss tv shows. obese guy with good hair, drops weight, starts to lose hair also.
linkoq
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ya i know what you mean the damn hair , anyway i'm not that Overweight i just need like 20-25 pounds off and i'm good to go .
i googled The Biggest Loser winner i found some interesting pics :
there's some hair loss here and there but not that big , only one i found
but i thought good diet will improve the Insulin in your body .
the damn hair , anyway i'm not that Overweight i just need like 20-25 pounds off and i'm good to go .i googled The Biggest Loser winner i found some interesting pics :
there's some hair loss here and there but not that big , only one i found
but i thought good diet will improve the Insulin in your body .
Hoppi
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billythekid said:
Hm that's interesting! Almost fits in more with my new thread on malnutrition and hair loss! However, while it is true that his insulin resistance is probably dropping, I dont think it's controlled enough to make any assumptions that the person's loss of hair is linked to their increasing insulin sensitivity! Certainly all this is complicated and multi-faceted, but I would imagine that the later links in the chain are the same regardless (some kind of change in (free?) sex hormone amounts or AR sensitivity)
I think some of us are getting a little off topic here haha but that can be good too. But I wanna be clear on something: I would NEVER tell you which drugs to take for several reasons. 1) I'm not a doctor. 2) and more importantly, taking any drug that affects your hormones is EXTREMELY risky. Drugs that alter hormones are the ones with the most side effects. I mentioned diazoxide merely because it fits in nicely with theory about insulin resistance and male pattern baldness, NOT because I recommend you go out and try it. The whole point of my post was to convey the idea that you may be able to control all those hormones WITHOUT drugs just by eating healthy. I think insulin is more powerful of a hormone than anyone realizes, and it's easy to control (just eat right)
Secondly, as I said before, I can't explain why some hairs fall out and others don't (the pattern), nor can I explain why some people go bald and others don't despite a similar diet. In that regard, there is obviously something else going on. Other hormones (particularly sex hormones, hence the term MALE pattern baldness), almost definitely play a significant role. But my central thesis here is that insulin signaling may be quarterbacking the whole process, and all of the other stuff, like SHBG, DHT, etc. are just downstream effects that either carry out the balding or exacerbate the effects of insulin.
I could be wrong about all of this. But I've never read about someone losing more hair by eating right and exercising. I'm sure one of you can give me anecdotal evidence of that, but I'm using common sense here. If you eat right (by eat right I'm basically referring to the Paleo Diet [argue that another day]) and exercise, your hair will probably grow better. That part's not rocket science. I've taken it a step further and analyzed insulin signaling at the molecular level in the scientific literature and it seems to explain hair loss. In fact, I plan on studying insulin signaling for my degree (in the context of cancer, not hair loss haha). I think it explains not just hair loss but a lot of other diseases as well. If anyone would like to know about that let me know.
So bottom line is if someone reads this and goes out and eats healthy and exercises, but then sees no results with their hair, that stinks but I won't feel too bad. If my idea makes someone do all that then it's a good thing even if it doesn't help male pattern baldness. So, take advantage of controlling your hormones without risky drugs, and just eat right. Hair growth or no hair growth you're doing yourself and your body a favor.
Secondly, as I said before, I can't explain why some hairs fall out and others don't (the pattern), nor can I explain why some people go bald and others don't despite a similar diet. In that regard, there is obviously something else going on. Other hormones (particularly sex hormones, hence the term MALE pattern baldness), almost definitely play a significant role. But my central thesis here is that insulin signaling may be quarterbacking the whole process, and all of the other stuff, like SHBG, DHT, etc. are just downstream effects that either carry out the balding or exacerbate the effects of insulin.
I could be wrong about all of this. But I've never read about someone losing more hair by eating right and exercising. I'm sure one of you can give me anecdotal evidence of that, but I'm using common sense here. If you eat right (by eat right I'm basically referring to the Paleo Diet [argue that another day]) and exercise, your hair will probably grow better. That part's not rocket science. I've taken it a step further and analyzed insulin signaling at the molecular level in the scientific literature and it seems to explain hair loss. In fact, I plan on studying insulin signaling for my degree (in the context of cancer, not hair loss haha). I think it explains not just hair loss but a lot of other diseases as well. If anyone would like to know about that let me know.
So bottom line is if someone reads this and goes out and eats healthy and exercises, but then sees no results with their hair, that stinks but I won't feel too bad. If my idea makes someone do all that then it's a good thing even if it doesn't help male pattern baldness. So, take advantage of controlling your hormones without risky drugs, and just eat right. Hair growth or no hair growth you're doing yourself and your body a favor.
Brains Expel Hair
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Broons85 said:
Very well put.
Hoppi
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Yeah well done Broons
Although I was talking about insulin a while ago and was 100% convinced it was the cause of male pattern baldness (now as I've said I can't help but point at a few other things as well) I could never put it down with the same degree of background knowledge and clarity that you have!
That's fantastic you are going on to study it further - and I truly hope we really are onto something with this one, as it's so easy to fix and it makes a good amount of sense. I'll PM you with something in a mo
Although I was talking about insulin a while ago and was 100% convinced it was the cause of male pattern baldness (now as I've said I can't help but point at a few other things as well) I could never put it down with the same degree of background knowledge and clarity that you have!
That's fantastic you are going on to study it further - and I truly hope we really are onto something with this one, as it's so easy to fix and it makes a good amount of sense. I'll PM you with something in a mo
One more thing...
I think I can explain why Brains' diet/shampoo regimen works. Gluten causes inflammation. Inflammation can lead to insulin resistance. I used to eat Subway a lot when I was 18ish, and switched from white bread to whole wheat cuz i figured it was healthier. But I noticed that when I ate whole wheat subs I would get a side stitch afterward. I finally figured out that it was from the whole wheat bread, so I went back to white, and it went away. i had no knowledge of gluten back then, but have since learned that extra gluten is often added to whole wheat bread to make it rise better.
So, if you're eating a high gluten diet, which most of us are, you may be poisoning your hair follicles (and other tissues as well, and some that are more important than hair follicles). Even if you've never had a problem with gluten, it doesn't mean that your hair follicles haven't. It's a lot like the insulin resistant logic: your body may not be insulin resistant, but your hair follicles may be. So, eating gluten may cause inflammation in your hair follicles, which may lead to insulin resistance in those follicles, and possibly an autoimmune attack as well.
As for SLS, this part's easy: it's an industrial cleaning agent, an "engine degreaser," among other things, according to wikipedia. In other words, it's highly toxic. Check out Killer Strands blog.
http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/
She's violently against SLS in hair products and recommends a bunch of shampoos etc.
http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/2008/ ... -list.html
Some people, like those with male pattern baldness, may be more sensitive to SLS than others. Combine SLS with gluten and high-carb, my guess is bye-bye hair.
I looked around online for SLS and gluten free shampoos, and couldn't find one I really liked. I went to vitamin shoppe and found what I think is a good one. It's Wheat/gluten-free, SLS-free, glycerol-free, petroleum-free, and i think alcohol-free.
http://www.desertessence.com/bath-body/ ... ee-shampoo
It seems like a great company. It's not too expensive either. Anyone have any info on this??
So, from now on I'll be on a gluten-free (I'm sure I'll cheat a bit), SLS-free diet/shampoo regimen along with you, brains. Keep me posted on your status.
I think I can explain why Brains' diet/shampoo regimen works. Gluten causes inflammation. Inflammation can lead to insulin resistance. I used to eat Subway a lot when I was 18ish, and switched from white bread to whole wheat cuz i figured it was healthier. But I noticed that when I ate whole wheat subs I would get a side stitch afterward. I finally figured out that it was from the whole wheat bread, so I went back to white, and it went away. i had no knowledge of gluten back then, but have since learned that extra gluten is often added to whole wheat bread to make it rise better.
So, if you're eating a high gluten diet, which most of us are, you may be poisoning your hair follicles (and other tissues as well, and some that are more important than hair follicles). Even if you've never had a problem with gluten, it doesn't mean that your hair follicles haven't. It's a lot like the insulin resistant logic: your body may not be insulin resistant, but your hair follicles may be. So, eating gluten may cause inflammation in your hair follicles, which may lead to insulin resistance in those follicles, and possibly an autoimmune attack as well.
As for SLS, this part's easy: it's an industrial cleaning agent, an "engine degreaser," among other things, according to wikipedia. In other words, it's highly toxic. Check out Killer Strands blog.
http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/
She's violently against SLS in hair products and recommends a bunch of shampoos etc.
http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/2008/ ... -list.html
Some people, like those with male pattern baldness, may be more sensitive to SLS than others. Combine SLS with gluten and high-carb, my guess is bye-bye hair.
I looked around online for SLS and gluten free shampoos, and couldn't find one I really liked. I went to vitamin shoppe and found what I think is a good one. It's Wheat/gluten-free, SLS-free, glycerol-free, petroleum-free, and i think alcohol-free.
http://www.desertessence.com/bath-body/ ... ee-shampoo
It seems like a great company. It's not too expensive either. Anyone have any info on this??
So, from now on I'll be on a gluten-free (I'm sure I'll cheat a bit), SLS-free diet/shampoo regimen along with you, brains. Keep me posted on your status.
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Broons85 said:
No less an authority than Peter H. Proctor MD, PhD has written about SLS in shampoos many times in the past. In the small levels of the detergent that are used in shampoos, he doesn't believe that it does any harm to hair. He doesn't believe that there is anything to this anti-SLS hysteria.
Bryan said:
Doctors also said at one point (even the surgeon general!) that tobacco/cigarettes aren't bad for you (even that they are good for you), that HGH/steroids don't improve strength/athletic performance, and doctors even prescribed heroin to people addicted to morphine.
Doctors are always behind the game, and by no fault of their own. It's the nature of medicine. But here, I think we should use common sense again and figure that this stuff is highly toxic, and any amount of it on or in our bodies should be avoided if at all possible. Plus, the amount of SLS in one wash may not be detrimental to health, but perhaps years and years of consistent use may add up. With SLS-free shampoos not costing an arm and a leg more than SLS-laden shampoos (I think mine was actually cheaper), there's no reaosn in my mind not to use SLS-free.
Dr. Proctor could be absolutely right, in that the amounts used are negligible in the context of hair or human health. However, if the amounts were negligible for health, then they would probably be negligible for any effervescent/detergent activity that they display. Plus, there have been few studies looking at this, so how would he know? How would I know? I don't know, and no one really does but there's good reason to assume it is. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, for either viewpoint. I will be researching this in the scientific literature, so I'll give an update soon. Also be weary of studies paid for by the cosmetic/industrial industries. They have a lot to lose if it comes out that SLS is bad, so if they spend money studying it you can be sure that it will be spent on studies showing that it's harmless.
Bottom line - even if the amounts of SLS in shampoos etc. are harmless, there's no good reason to assume at this point that they are. You might as well just use SLS-free. I will.
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Broons85 said:
I think the word you want here is wary, not weary!
Anyway, Dr. Proctor has talked about this issue at some length back on alt.baldspot, and can tell you exactly when this silly hoopla over SLS first began. I'm forgetting a lot of the details nowadays, but if I remember correctly, it began just as some effort on the part of a shampoo manufacturer (or something similar) to sell his product: "Buy our super-duper XYZ Shampoo! It doesn't contain that nasty 'SLS' detergent!" It was just about as silly as something like that. Be wary of marketing scams by shysters who are trying to put the fear of God into people about using something harmless, just so they'll buy some other product!