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I'd like to see some proof that "a gene gets turned on"

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by Hoppi, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    Internet guru...that reminds me..Hoppi, there's a guy out there that started a "grunge"(I think that's what they go by) group...they do not use shampoo at all for hairloss, and claim results. There's even a forum on it.

    You'll be doing that next..right? :whistle:
     
  2. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    But you hear it and see it all the time :(

    Pot bellied guys losing their hair with a beer in their hand, and the link between metabolic syndrome and balding is often talked about. I mean at the very least you would increase inflammation no end and chuck your hormones a mile off.

    I'm just basing it on what I see and experience in the world around me, what is logical and makes sense.

    Now that I think about it I can't think of a SINGLE guy who drinks a lot at a reasonable age and still has a fair amount of hair!! lol

    And stress and hair loss is well established. When I asked CS, he told me it was due to inflammation, and I also read that it decreases T, decreases SHBG and a few other things. But see at least it begins to explain the obvious link. In fact it's so obvious it is commonly parodied - like that lawyer guy in Scrubs who has lost all his hair lol

    It's just, when something is staring me in the fact to quite THAT extent, I want to know why, so I can learn from that and avoid it.

    Someone I was talking to said that (I may have mentioned this) whenever he drank a lot of beer, he shed hair. Interesting? :)

    lol I did consider doing that once when I was at the height of my hippidom! Well, actually I'm still there.. but still! ^_^

    hmm, I wonder what the logic is behind that theory O.O

    It would result in fewer nasties like flouride and chlorine getting near your hair, less SLS and.. god knows.

    But can I ask like, if you hear about something that has an effect, positive or negative, aren't you ever interested why?

    At the very least, I simply LOVE hearing about different people's ideas and thoughts and things, and not just on hair loss on everything!

    Don't you find people's unique quirks and ways of dealing with things interesting? It always brings a smile to my face! :)


    EDIT -- hmm, I looked at it - it does back up what Brian Simonis says about trying to go for a natural, mild, SLS-free shampoo :) I was going to do that anyway, but yeah, cool!
     
  3. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    Yes, if there's something behind it that makes some bit of sense, and isn't also being done by a person who is looking for a following and/or looking to make some $ off of it in the process. And yes, that is and will be happening.

    Again..that thread...

    Which leads me back to something you never respond to. You could go to Swanson's or Iherb and find another Top 6-10 that could work just as well if not better. Or are you saying someone has found the magic combo? I shouldn't really say someONE..as others did weed things out..due to side effects...picking up on what others were talking about..etc. I'd even start with Neptune krill oil :laugh:

    Edit..no it does not back up B.S. Those other guys use NO shampoo. But if you were going to say anything like that..you'd have to say B.S. is backing them up.
     
  4. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    Oh come on man this isn't some wacky contest lol

    The point Brian is trying to make is that by reducing the inflammatory aspect of male hair loss, you can reduce the impact DHT has. The precise components you use to do this are largely insignificant as long as they are potent and anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, antimicrobial, etc etc. My regimen isn't exactly like Brian's, but is along the same vague lines. Hormonal balance obviously also makes a difference. If you have a whole bunch of T or DHT in your body, you'll bald quicker. I don't really understand the confusion on things like this o_O

    And as for that ker-aaazy guy with his shampoo acid/SLS theory, it would be quite tricky for him to make money off of nothing wouldn't it? lol


    EDIT -- Oh additionally, you know that thing about ejaculation and hair loss? Well, again Brian and people were actually providing very viable explanations for this, instead of just saying "it's all in your mind!" :)

    I mean it's logical that something like that which probably has one of the largest immediate effects on your "sex hormones" (T, E, DHT) will have some kind of effect on something which is immediately triggered by... sex hormones! lol
     
  5. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    See...you can't even answer/respond to it. I just know what is in the plans- you'll be using the combo...promoting it here...you'd have gone off of finasteride etc :whistle:

    I wasn't referring to the shampoo regarding making $. But I know you knew that.

    And since we're editing..I'll answer my own question. There are tons of combos one could come up with that could do what you're so worried about. One isn't going to work for everybody, anyway.
     
  6. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    Oh the CS thing (sorry I didn't see the edit) yes you're right kind of but, if the main things that that grunge guy is talking about avoiding are acidic shampoos and SLS, then a mild, natural, SLS-free shampoo (any hair stimulatory or DHT/inflammation-reducing effects would be a bonus) would do vaguely the same job. I can't imagine there's anything spectacularly wrong with merely cleaning your hair, but I can understand how chemicals that could cause (even mild) inflammation would hardly serve to help the situation.

    And actually I did think you were talking about that grunge guy making cash, were you actually talking about Brian then?

    I mean, of course I thought that when I first saw IH, I'm sure most people think that about most things like that they see online, but the guy is REALLY knowledgeable and has done a lot of research. He also puts a lot of time in and knows about far more things than just hair loss (like I might have said, I've been taught how to ease my relatively minor eye (short sightedness, apparently spirulina and hyaluronic acid may help significantly) and ear (magnesium, zinc etc) problems.

    As many people have said, this "goes beyond hair" :)


    EDIT oh for the record I would love to hear one of these superior top 6s! I'm sure Brian would too!! lol
     
  7. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    See..you actually think the magic combo has been found. I haven't looked at it in awhile..so I went over there, and here it is:

    Curcumin 95
    Ecklonia cava extract
    Krill Oil
    Bio-Enhanced Na-RALA
    Acetyl L-Carnitine
    Vitamin D3 + Vitamin K2
    Biotin

    :shock:

    I could just end this with...That thread...and that newest..second thread...

    But...

    Just looking at that it's no wonder there's another big group of "Ancillary/Supplemental" supplements. Some of those listed above are in multis/combos that contain plenty of other things. The Ecklonia cava is good..but are there lots of testimonials out there on those using it who are seeing regrowth? I'm referring to outside of these hair forums too. I recall a Dr. Ray Sa.....(I'll look it up if you'd like) saying that there weren't any studies done on humans with this stuff..that he knew of. And yet the company behind it was making all kinds of claims. Which isn't a first..just pointing that out.



    Why not BioSil or JarroSil? Things that are actually good for the hair. Look at the reviews and you'll see quite a few positives. And no..don't ask someone who claims his hair keeps getting better but then says he tried BioSil and didn't notice anything :shakehead:

    Or Milasan: http://www.europharmausa.com/DBFiles/Greensheet/32.pdf

    Or many of the hair hairloss combos already available out there.

    Some others..just throwing them out there...I know they're no match for that top 6 :whistle:

    http://www.stem-kine.com/ :dunno:

    The probiotic Lactobacillus paracasei
    http://skin.gcnpublishing.com/fileadmin/content_pdf/archive_pdf/vol40iss11/70545_main.pdf

    Should I actually go to Iherb and Swanson's next? :)

    BTW..you need to ask B.S. why NEPTUNE Krill oil LOL..maybe I'll send you a link sometime on that(I do follow the rules). There is a NOW 1000mg per gelcap krill oil product out there..btw..
     
  8. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    Or that LimuZ I mentioned earlier.


    More on the other ingreds:

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/11/prweb1603304.htm

    Call 'em for a free one week supply : http://www.nutritionfreebies.com/Free_Supplement.html

    OSR#1..which I see he finally talked about, as well: https://www.ctiscience.com/CTIScience/
     
  9. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    That's not really the same though is it because they're combos - the IH regimen (for the most part) is individual things, which I prefer tbh.

    Ecklonia Cava as I understand is mainly in there for it's antimicrobial properties, which cuts down on inflammation. It's also a potent antioxidant.

    It probably won't do the world of good on it's own, but it's part of the overall strategy of limiting inflammation, balancing hormones, taking the peak off your DHT, etc.

    Do you have any SINGLE regimen choices that are better than IH choices, not large combos?


    Additionally, why don't you just speak to Brian? It sounds like you feel you have much to teach him! lol
     
  10. Nashville Hairline

    Nashville Hairline Experienced Member

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    Interesting info, Jacob.

    The Neptune Krill Oil is cos Mercola recommends it, isn't it? Something about metal toxicity in regular fish oil.
     
  11. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    What the #$%@ difference does it make even if what I listed were all combos? Just take one of those combos then and compare it to the "top 6". Your problem is that there is no evidence to say that list is better than anything else. (and before you ask *me* for evidence that any of these would work any better..1) there's not much out there that shows this top 6 does, and 2) I'm not putting up a website and forum trying to get ppl to take these things and claiming they're the thing(s) to take)There are now at least 2 recent threads(there have been others in the past) where hardly anyone is saying- I'm doing just great on this.

    I did list individual things..such as OSR#1. Such as Lactobacillus paracasei(if you're going to take probiotics..might as well have one that includeds that). Such as BioSil.


    Obviously there aren't that many "growing hair" testimonials out there for EC users...or you would have directed us to them. There are plenty of other things out there to use as an "antimicrobial"...and to use to cut down on inflammation. As well as potent antioxidants. Etc etc.

    Your last comment there actually IS funny. Because he argued with me about Neptune Krill oil...said what he was using at the time was just fine(and cheaper)- the VitaCost product. No phospholipids mentioned on their label or website. Now what does he use? Neptune.
    GliSODin is another. Renewal Antioxidants(which I would put in a top 6) is another. Did you know he got caught plagiarizing btw? :shakehead:

    Hoppi..use what you want. But please..for the love of everything hairy..quit running around pretending this is IT..the solution..etc. Try some topicals too btw..I noticed you asked about that but then didn't respond to the suggestions.
     
  12. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    Yeah..that's part of it. The phospholipids and astaxanthin are bonuses..as I'm sure you've read at Mercola's. He claims to have some better capsulating tech..and another unique flavanoid in his. I never read the whole page to see what that latter part was about. Guess I will today :hump:

    Edit..I'm not sure it's unique to his product..after reading it all.
     
  13. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    I never said the IH regimen was "it". But it's certainly a damn good start! lol

    Besides, the IH regimen I don't believe tackles more specific problems, such as stress, thyroid issues, diet and lifestyle choices etc etc.

    And so what if he's taken ideas and stuff from other people? It doesn't really make that much difference to me personally, as long as he's a nice, helpful guy who is trying his best to get to the bottom of hair loss and help others do the same! :)

    And in that, he has and is succeeding spectacularly IMO! Kudos I say ^_^
     
  14. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    I'll direct you to my previous post(instead of reposting it)...and add- many of the things I listed "tackles more specific problems, such as stress, thyroid issues". Diet and lifestyle? At least JD and others are getting that from other sites.

    It may not matter to you that he takes stuff from other ppl(including words..you do know what plagiarizing means..right?). It actually doesn't matter to me either, in fact I like seeing things I've pointed out being used by others. But it IS pathetic..when the guy argues against/about something and then ends up using it himself and putting it in his list.

    But again, you're not going to see me wanting others following me- starting up a website and forum etc in the process.

    Again..my previous post..and..those threads Hoppi...those threads...succeeded where? ..... :laugh:
     
  15. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    hehe it's ok man, I am perfectly happy :)
     
  16. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    But anyway, theory disproved :)

    When 1 guy solved his male pattern baldness by ditching gluten, 2 solved it by cutting out masturbation (lol) and 1 guy fixed it with diet, some I believe have done it by correcting thyroid balance.

    The male pattern baldness gene "activation" thing is a lie, disproven many times, there's nothing else to it :)

    Follicles MAY get more sensitive with time, possibly. I don't know about that, but the idea of an irreversible epigenetic change in everyone with male pattern baldness? Nonsense :)
     
  17. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    :shakehead:

    Since you keep repeating things...

    I'll direct you to my previous post(instead of reposting it)...and add- many of the things I listed "tackles more specific problems, such as stress, thyroid issues". Diet and lifestyle? At least JD and others are getting that from other sites.

    It may not matter to you that he takes stuff from other ppl(including words..you do know what plagiarizing means..right?). It actually doesn't matter to me either, in fact I like seeing things I've pointed out being used by others. But it IS pathetic..when the guy argues against/about something and then ends up using it himself and putting it in his list.

    But again, you're not going to see me wanting others following me- starting up a website and forum etc in the process.

    Again..my previous post..and..those threads Hoppi...those threads...succeeded where? ..... :laugh:
     
  18. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    Why don't you want to do anything like start a forum?

    I think he's done a very admirable thing in putting it together, whether I agree with every word he says or not (and often I do), I have great respect for the guy :)

    I think you need to relax a little bit! heh :) Ok he was wrong about Krill Oil or something, or maybe some other things but come on nobody's perfect, he's just a human being trying to learn about something just like the rest of us, and often he has absolutely fantastic advice and hypotheses on many things!

    Cut him some slack :)
     
  19. Jacob

    Jacob Senior Member

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    You don't think there are enough forums out there already? But to start one based upon/around one's own regimen etc..well there are names..or even conditions..you could give for that.

    It's too bad you won't be able to post the links anymore though..eh? :whistle:

    See my previous post previous to the previous one. And those threads Hoppi..those threads....
     
  20. Hoppi

    Hoppi Senior Member

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    Hehe well if we are going to start on the guy's egotism, I think naming it "Immortal Hair" and giving himself such a dramatic choice of alias and avatar is a much stronger indication! hehe

    But I like that, I mean it makes me smile how confident he is and how much he just gets out there and expresses himself, and how he is using the knowledge he has to help others.

    I mean, if people do have these significant disagreements with him (you, Bryan, Brain's Expel Hair sometimes, and many, many others), I do wish you would attempt to reach constructive conclusions with him as opposed to with me (as much as I don't mind and quite enjoy a light-hearted chat, etc), I mean maybe you could outsmart him and prove you are correct to people.

    Personally, I do side with Brian on most things and support him, of course I do, but that's not to say I don't want to see reasonable debate!

    And this isn't all about the IH regimen, this is about holistic, orthomolecular approaches to hair loss and many other things.

    My current regimen, for example, is clearly not the IH regimen, and neither is many people's who discuss things on there :)
     

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