How Different Types Of Estrogen Promote (and Hinder) Hair Growth

[Arrade]

Where though.

Choi discord should be on regrow bros

 

[thickhaironhead]

Also i think @bridgeburn is correct about minoxidil and the damage it's doing. My hair shedding has never been below 80-100 hairs in a day whilst i have been on it. Shedding picks up significantly when i'm getting some regrowth (and i am albeit localised to my temples). I don't know why this has happened to me, but i have some theories. minoxidil works to increase the anagen phase of hairs, and it does - for the hairs on my body that are not affected by dht. So my body hair, facial hair grows longer and darker, i get some regrowth about my hairline, but something is really wrong about how it works also. It SHOULD NOT just "turn on" and "turn off" the way it does. I should not get terminal hair growth for a few months, then only miniaturised growth for many more months. I should NOT be constantly shedding huge amounts of hair. I have this feeling that, because my miniaturisation is so extensive, and my hair growth cycle was already so fucked up, it has had an impact upon a large portion of my hair which was already rapid cycling (and not growing back). So a lot of hair started growing all at once, maybe it means that they all stop growing at once too, although why this should happen in 9-3 month periods totally stumps me. It's like it has my hair cycles all mixed up. Catalan lasts for 9-12 months, anagen lasts for 3 months, telogen seems just to f*****g last forever.
I want to come off minoxidil, but i need a suitable replacement. Not adenosine, not stem, none of that sh*t. i mean something that causes hypertrichosis or similar effects. I wish PSI and MG were easier to source and weren't so expensive because would use them in a heartbeat. I think the only next best option i have is either cyclosporin or AGF-39/SGF-57.

Is this damage you talk about by oral minoxidil or topical?

 

[Georgie]

Is this damage you talk about by oral minoxidil or topical?

I’m going to guess oral but both are sh*t

 

[charlie76761]

Interesting read here on how S and R Equol have differentiated affinity for ER-Alpha and ER-Beta

R-Equol targets more towards Alpha (bad according to Ideal), while S targets more towards Beta (good)

Could explain why Brotzu went for S-Equol. If only could find it at a decent price

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0968089604000239

@IdealForehead

 

[INT]

Such an interesting thread. Currently I am also looking into adding a topical estrogen into my regime. There are a few things still not completely clear to me however.

17α-estradiol (alfatradiol)
In the discussion on estrogens and male pattern baldness 17α-estradiol pops up quite a lot. But how can it be effective if it cannot bind to estrogen receptors? Apparently, it aromatases androgens into estrogen but what is the point of this if it cannot bind to the receptors anyway? Is it then not simply an anti-androgen since it only removes androgens, disabling it from stimulating the androgen receptors?

Estriol vs Estradiol
What I still do not fully comprehend is why Estriol is considered better for hair growth in the OP despite the fact that Estradiol is more powerful. Could someone explain it to me like I am an 8 year old child?

Using Estriol
Anyone here experience with using estriol? If yes, could you maybe share a bit regarding which formula you use, how you use it, does it work, side effects?

Thank you!

 

[Skrufstark]

Felt I should share this clinical trial on topical Estriol for male pattern baldness:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3729560A/en

Although the results weren't spectacular I feel the need to explore every avenue before throwing in the towel. I ordered some topical Estriol on amazon (Life-Flo Estriol care) for kicks to see what might happen.

Current regime:
.5 Duta (3.5 months)
5mg Oral minoxidil (2.5mg 2x daily for 2.5 months)
Adding Estriol 06/04/18

No sign of improvements thus far....


Prior Regime:
200 mg of Spiralactalone 2 months
.5 Duta 2 months

I started taking the duta 2 weeks prior to starting Spiralactalone just ensure any side effects were pinpointed to each new drug introduced into my system. About 1 month after started spironolactone I began to experience some typical side effects (loss of libido, softer erections, lack of interest in women). Although it wasn't what I wanted, I too, like many others have reported, enjoyed the calmness and peaceful mindset that comes with lowering your testosterone. I felt centered and less distracted. However, I still very much enjoyed indulging in a women's presence and couldn't imagine myself further down the rabbit hole. I didn't see any improvement with my hair within this short trial and error. I pulled the plug and within two weeks I had my old self (horn dog) back.

Prior Prior regime:
Topical Minoxidil for 1 year
.5 Finasteride for 1 year

Little to no improvement. At best it possibly helped sustain hair and reduced fallout.
Sexual side effects began after two weeks (Itchy all over my body right after an orgasm) but only lasted for a month.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but I am pretty sure Life-Flo Estriol care does not contain real estriol. I read some documents back in the day about the company false advertising, and its just natural phytoestrogens. If not, they would not be sold on ebay. There are some real estrogen products sold on ebay from time to time though. Usually contraceptive pills and oestrogel etc. The same company sell another product of which they claim contain estradiol and estriol. That is just bullshit. Estradiol is usually a prescription only medicine. If you want real estriol, you need to either buy the pure chemical from a chemical supplier or buy some OTC product like ovestin.

Maybe Im wrong though, I dont know.

 

[DavidsDome]

Since we know that glucocorticoids promote aromatase and down regulate ER alpha, we would expect them to be good for our hair.
So how to interpret the finding of below study?

Glucocorticoid effect on hair growth initiation: a reconsideration.
Stenn KS1, Paus R, Dutton T, Sarba B.
Abstract
It has been demonstrated by various workers in the past that glucocorticosteroids block hair growth. Using the mouse model for studying hair growth induction we reexamined the effect of topically applied steroids on hair growth to establish at what stage the steroid block acts. In accord with studies by others, we found that these steroids block hair growth at the point of anagen initiation, but that once the steroid applications are stopped, hair growth starts. Since steroid withdrawal alone did not induce hair growth, it is clear that these steroids do not block, either spontaneous or manipulated, hair growth induction, but they do block, the apparent next step, i.e., hair formation. Moreover, since hair growth could be induced even while the animals were being treated with the steroid, the induction step appears independent of the steroid block. These studies and those of others lead us to conclude that these steroids block the expression of hair-forming genes, but do not interfere with the signal(s) that initiates those genes. This system appears to be ideal for identifying the signals (perhaps, genes) responsible for initiating hair growth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8352950

 

[Juneworldcup]

I have experienced the best results from everything I tried so far with topical estradiol. It seriously thickened up my hair and reversed some miniaturization. No such luck with estriol, but perhaps I did not use it long enough.

BTW if what you say about ethinyl estradiol is true, then explain this guy's results:

He was on ethinyl estradiol among other things.

Hi Folks - First off, you are a lovely group and try to help each other..that's an oddity in the world of internet today!

I am a 40+ woman and started losing lots of hair since last year... I had a very stressful one year and it appears that messed up my hormones...do you have any recommendations for an estrogen cream/gel/shampoo that worked for you? I am quite sure now that my hair loss issue is low estrogen... all other causes ruled out (thyroid, alopecia aarata, mineral deficiency etc.). I am taking estrogen (Progynova) 6 mg daily + some estrogen gel and patch... and Progesterone 37.5 mg daily.

 

[Arrade]

Hi Folks - First off, you are a lovely group and try to help each other..that's an oddity in the world of internet today!

I am a 40+ woman and started losing lots of hair since last year... I had a very stressful one year and it appears that messed up my hormones...do you have any recommendations for an estrogen cream/gel/shampoo that worked for you? I am quite sure now that my hair loss issue is low estrogen... all other causes ruled out (thyroid, alopecia aarata, mineral deficiency etc.). I am taking estrogen (Progynova) 6 mg daily + some estrogen gel and patch... and Progesterone 37.5 mg daily.

you should look into the ray peat forum

 

[Juneworldcup]

you should look into the ray peat forum

Ok - thank you... will look into that forum...

 

[Arrade]

Ok - thank you... will look into that forum...

Ask the moderator "blossom" about treating your symptoms... the forum seems to know a lot about hormones

 

[Juneworldcup]

They haven't given me access yet.. I registered but did not get a link yet so unable to login. Will try again now...

 

[bznj]

How about DHEA?

https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/146/11/4565/2499708

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529809/

 

[Jonny Craig]

Felt I should share this clinical trial on topical Estriol for male pattern baldness:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3729560A/en

Although the results weren't spectacular I feel the need to explore every avenue before throwing in the towel. I ordered some topical Estriol on amazon (Life-Flo Estriol care) for kicks to see what might happen.

Current regime:
.5 Duta (3.5 months)
5mg Oral minoxidil (2.5mg 2x daily for 2.5 months)
Adding Estriol 06/04/18

No sign of improvements thus far....


Prior Regime:
200 mg of Spiralactalone 2 months
.5 Duta 2 months

I started taking the duta 2 weeks prior to starting Spiralactalone just ensure any side effects were pinpointed to each new drug introduced into my system. About 1 month after started spironolactone I began to experience some typical side effects (loss of libido, softer erections, lack of interest in women). Although it wasn't what I wanted, I too, like many others have reported, enjoyed the calmness and peaceful mindset that comes with lowering your testosterone. I felt centered and less distracted. However, I still very much enjoyed indulging in a women's presence and couldn't imagine myself further down the rabbit hole. I didn't see any improvement with my hair within this short trial and error. I pulled the plug and within two weeks I had my old self (horn dog) back.

Prior Prior regime:
Topical Minoxidil for 1 year
.5 Finasteride for 1 year

Little to no improvement. At best it possibly helped sustain hair and reduced fallout.
Sexual side effects began after two weeks (Itchy all over my body right after an orgasm) but only lasted for a month.

Update please?

Did Estriol help?

 

[Analogies]

Update please?

Did Estriol help?

Combined with the 200mg of spironolactone, after about a month or so I began feeling very weak in the gym. I also became uninterested in sex and my erections weren't as hard. I didn't like the feeling and should have tapered down on the spironolactone but instead dropped everything.

 

[baldingAF]

I just wana day as far as threads go this is the best I’ve seen where people actually stick to the topic at hand and provide some dope *** info, thanks everyone.

That being said can anyone follow up on how their estriol helped or if anyone did decide to go the s-equol route?

 

[DavidsDome]

Im using topical estriol for about 6 weeks now.
1mg/g creme, twice daily, temples only
nothing much to report so far
im actually losing the vellus hairs that regrew throughout the past years.
other hairs at my hairlines are also growing shorter.
but I must be honest, that im using a shitload of stuff at the same time.
difficult to pinpoint whats going on.
I must say that I was worried about adding estriol because of feminizing sides.
So far no sides to report at all. And I'm combining it with 0.5mg dutasteride daily.

 

[baldingAF]

I know that from @bridgeburn 's success story when he switched to estridol things started to really jump into high gear

@DavidsDome do you have any sides? duta sides?

 

[baldingAF]

Also does anyone have any stories or updates using
dexamethasone

I feel like this sounds too good for me not to have seen it used more and reported in more successful regiments. Does anybody have experience with this? regrowth? sides?

 

[DavidsDome]

i ve tried a shitload of stuff but nothing gave me any sides actually.
not finasteride, not dutasteride, not enza.
estradiol is idd a possibility, but since estriol is weaker and is receptor-wise better for hair.
I figured estriol was a safe start.
I also have a gel with betamethason and vitamine D in it
But Im stil not sure if it is beneficial or not...
Vit D is good but not sure what to think of the corticosteroid

it is clear that these steroids do not block, either spontaneous or manipulated, hair growth induction, but they do block, the apparent next step, i.e., hair formation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8352950