How credible is Propeciahelp.com?

TheEscapist

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Is what they are all hyperventilating and repeatedly posting about real? I fully believe there are side effects to messing with your hormones, but these people are regularly discussing hundreds of conditions, bodily disorders, sexual traumas, etc. that they all believe are linked to even as little as 1 week on Propecia.

None of them seem to believe that their symptoms are the result of psychosomatic-worrying. They're all balls to the wall "Propecia ruined my life".

Are their accusations and accounts valid? Truthful? Is there reality to what they're regularly freaking out about? Or is it a rabid riot of dramatic stories empowering dramatic stories to the point that everyone there is feeding each other's psychosomatic worries?
 

Admin

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Summary: If you take a medication (any medication) and you experience side effects, and you continue taking that medication, and ignore those side effects, its your own damn fault if you end up with damage to your body. I include myself in that, as I took Propecia for 3.5 years and ignored the side effects out of sheer terror that I'd lose my hair if I quit. Any problems I have are my own damn fault. I have personal friends who have been on it for 5+ years and don't have a single problem. Each person is different. Some people die if they take v****. Imagine if Propecia killed some people ...

Perspective. Rational thought. etc.
 

TheEscapist

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Summary: If you take a medication (any medication) and you experience side effects, and you continue taking that medication, and ignore those side effects, its your own damn fault if you end up with damage to your body. I include myself in that, as I took Propecia for 3.5 years and ignored the side effects out of sheer terror that I'd lose my hair if I quit. Any problems I have are my own damn fault. I have personal friends who have been on it for 5+ years and don't have a single problem. Each person is different. Some people die if they take v****. Imagine if Propecia killed some people ...

Perspective. Rational thought. etc.
Have you experienced lingering side effects or problems Admin?
 

Admin

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My T Levels are significantly lower than they were before I went on Propecia. And they've stayed low ever since. This has however resulted in zero further hair loss, in the 8 years since I stopped. I used to hover around 800 total T and now I hover around 360 total T. Which is of course the testosterone level of an 80 year old man. However I had so many adverse events while on it, that I was "one of the guys" who should have quit taking it. And i mean "one" because every single person I know who takes it has zero problem. We're talking a full 2 years of ongoing testicle ache, semen volume dysfunction, loss of sensitivity, etc. The Brain Fog and all that other jazz they go on about is simply a side effect of lowered Testosterone and DHT.

I don't know a single person who took Propecia, saw side effects, immediately stopped, and had any problems afterwards. That's why i really don't have any pity for these guys. I think they're not being rational or logical, and scaring people away from a treatment that really works, and rarely causes problems. To me that's a bad thing. Its human nature to go ape sh*t and demonize something from top to bottom like they're doing, but it doesn't cater to logic or rational thought.

The simple fact is if you're considering taking Propeca, just don't be a dumb*ss and ignore side effects if you get them. If you don't get them, you'll be fine. Pretty basic common sense logic. There's nobody out there who took it, had no side effects, and woke up one morning with a forever limp penis. That simply doesn't happen.

As for me? All I have to do is embark on some Hormone Replacement Therapy. I've already successfully used Androgel and it works great. Everything goes back to normal. But when I do that, my hair starts falling out again. So I've managed my situation without it just fine, and still have all my hair.
 

Quantum Cat

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There's nobody out there who took it, had no side effects, and woke up one morning with a forever limp penis. That simply doesn't happen.

.

a lot of the Propeciahelpers have claimed that happened to them. Some of the stories you hear are crazy.

Finsteride was being prescribed long before it became Propecia, yet it's only the guys who use it for hairloss that seem to get the dreadful permanent side effects...
 

TheEscapist

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My T Levels are significantly lower than they were before I went on Propecia. And they've stayed low ever since. This has however resulted in zero further hair loss, in the 8 years since I stopped. I used to hover around 800 total T and now I hover around 360 total T. Which is of course the testosterone level of an 80 year old man. However I had so many adverse events while on it, that I was "one of the guys" who should have quit taking it. And i mean "one" because every single person I know who takes it has zero problem. We're talking a full 2 years of ongoing testicle ache, semen volume dysfunction, loss of sensitivity, etc. The Brain Fog and all that other jazz they go on about is simply a side effect of lowered Testosterone and DHT.

I don't know a single person who took Propecia, saw side effects, immediately stopped, and had any problems afterwards. That's why i really don't have any pity for these guys. I think they're not being rational or logical, and scaring people away from a treatment that really works, and rarely causes problems. To me that's a bad thing. Its human nature to go ape sh*t and demonize something from top to bottom like they're doing, but it doesn't cater to logic or rational thought.

The simple fact is if you're considering taking Propeca, just don't be a dumb*ss and ignore side effects if you get them. If you don't get them, you'll be fine. Pretty basic common sense logic. There's nobody out there who took it, had no side effects, and woke up one morning with a forever limp penis. That simply doesn't happen.

As for me? All I have to do is embark on some Hormone Replacement Therapy. I've already successfully used Androgel and it works great. Everything goes back to normal. But when I do that, my hair starts falling out again. So I've managed my situation without it just fine, and still have all my hair.
Admin, that sounds like it was a really challenging thing to go through. I know how hard it is to weigh the risks and benefits with this, and to continue taking the medication despite adverse affects isn't the best move in the hindsight, but when all it seems to be is mild discomfort vs. permanent hair loss, its an understandable move to make. I'm glad you're able to manage the situation though.

In my 3 months on finasteride, I didn't have any noticeable side effects except possibly "brain fog" and a barely noticeable weaker erection sometimes. I know your experience doesn't necessarily make you an expert, but would you think that those effects are reason enough to avoid the drug in the future, were I to try and take it again when I'm 18 or older?
 

antman

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Finasteride has a wide range of effects on the human body/mind but in the medical world everything is based on symptoms due to the gross lack of knowledge about the human body/mind.

These are a couple of articles that focus on finasteride and the brain.

finasteride should prevent the conversion of progesterone to 5 alpha DHP and of deoxycorticosterone to 5 alpha DHDOC.
-as such it should induce increased anxiety and depression and seizure susceptibility.
And this is seen in many animal studies

Depression/Anxiety
-Case reports of human depression/anxiety induced by finasteride have reported (1)
-double blind placebo studies have revealed

  • Finasteride improvement in quality of life for BPH and Androgenetic Alopecia patients (2,3)
  • more depression side effects in placebo then finasteride (4)

-animal studies found Finasteride may be useful for increased excitability and dysphonic symptoms in premenstrual and postpartum disorder

conclusion: animal studies support the depressogenics of the finasteride but has produced mixed results in humans. This may be because finasteride blocks both 1 and 2 isoforms of 5 alpha reductase in rats but only Type 2 in humans.

Seizure
-men with epilepsy taking finasteride long-term may have increased seizure susceptibility (5)
-Finasteride has been shown in a Case study to stop the anti-seizure effects of progesterone in Catamenial epilepsy (6)
- finasteride may increase chances of stress induced seizure (7)

Sexual Behaviour
No idea.
Maybe the liver releases proteins to stop finasteride but the proteins just end up being a Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin (SHBG) and attaching themselves to free-testosterone.

Alcohol
-finasteride blocks the 5-alpha-DHP effects of alcohol (reduces effects of alcohol in humans) (8)
- may reduce withdrawal symptoms of alcohol in men if taken before alcohol dependence (9) (10) (11)

conclusion: some mechanisms of finasteride and alcohol are unknown
but finasteride reduces the effects and withdrawal of alcohol.

Neurological disorders

Finasteride in the nucleus accumben counters sensorimotor gating deficits induced by dopaminergic activation

This makes finasteride useful for treating Tourette’s Syndrome (12), which has been seen in a case study (13)

finally Finasteride has been shown to treat the pathological gambling in patients with Parkinson disease through its effects on dopamine receptors. Finasteride did not worsen Parkinson disease. (14)

Finasteride is an antipsychotic
Finasteride antagonized prepulse inhibition (PPI) defects induced by apomorphine and d-amphetamine just like haloperidol and clozapine. (15)
-This makes finasteride useful for schizophrenia spectrum disorders

there is a case report where a patient with schizophrenia has been successfully treated with finasteride. (16)


References:

1. Altomare G. Capella GL. Depression circumstantially related to the administration of finasteride for androgenetic alopecia. J Dermatol 2002;29:665-669

2. YAMAZAKI, Masashi, eta al. Oral finasteride improved the quality of life of androgenetic alopecia patients. The Journal of Dermatology. vol 38, iss 8. PB Blackwell Publishing Ltd, 2011


3. C. Bruskewitz, PLESS Study Group, Impact of baseline PSA level on quality of life measures of general health and sexual satisfaction/drive in men with BPH treated with finasteride or placebo, European Urology Supplements, Volume 2, Issue 1, February 2003, Page 74, ISSN 1569-9056, 10.1016/S1569-9056(03)80292-0.
4. Ciotta L, Cianci A, Calogero AE, et al. Clinical and endocrine effects of finasteride, a 5a-reductase inhibitor, in women with idiopathic hirsutism. Fertil Steril 1995;64:229-306

5. Kaminski RM, Marini H, Kim WJ, Rogawski MA. Anticonvulsant activity of androstrrone and etiocholanolone. Epilepsia 2005;46:819-827

6. Herzog AG, Frye CA. Seizure exacerbation associated with inhibition of progesterone embolism. Ann Nurol 2003;53:390-391

7. Reddy DS. Is there a physiological role for the neurosteriod THDOC in stress-conditions? Trends Pharmacol Sci 2003;24:103-106

8. Pierucci-Lagha A, Covault J, Feinn R, eta al. GABRA2 alleles moderates the subjective effects of alcohol, which are attenuated by finasteride. Neuropsychopharmacology 2005;30:1193-1203.

9. Finn DA, Ford MM, Wiren KM, Roselli CE, Crabbe JC. The role of Pregnane neurosteriods in ethanol withdrawal: Behavioural geneitic approaches. Pharmacol Ther 2004;101:91-112

10. Gorin-meyer RE, Wiren KM, Tanchuck MA, Lon SL, Finn DA. Sex differneces in the effect of finasteride on acute ethanol withdrawal severity in C57BL/6J and DBA/2J mice. Submitted.

11. Gisleskog PO, Hermann D, Hammarlund-Udenaes M, Karlsson MO. A model for the turnover of dihydrotestosterone in the presence of the 5a-reductase inhibitors GI198745 and finasteride. Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998;64:636-647

12. Paola Devoto, et al. Inhibition of 5α-reductase in the nucleus accumbens counters sensorimotor gating deficits induced by dopaminergic activation, Psychoneuroendocrinology, Volume 37, Issue 10, October 2012, Pages 1630-1645, ISSN 0306-4530, 10.1016/j.psyneuen.2011.09.018.

13. Treatment of Tourette's Syndrome With Finasteride Bortolato, Marco;Muroni, Antonella;Marrosu, Francesco The American Journal of Psychiatry; Dec 2007; 164, 12; ProQuest pg. 1914

14. Bortolato, Marco MD, PhD; Finasteride Attenuates Pathological Gambling in Patients With Parkinson Disease. Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. Issue: Volume 32(3), June 2012, p 424–425

15. Bortolato, Marco, eta al. Antipsychotic-Like Properties of 5-[alpha]-Reductase Inhibitors. Neuropsychopharmacology. American College of Neuropsychopharmacology 0893-133X

16. Koethe, D., Bortolato, M., Piomelli, D., Leweke, F.M., 2008. Improvement of general symptoms in a chronic psychotic patient treated with finasteride: case report. Pharmacopsychiatry 41, 115e116.
 

Quantum Cat

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this has been debated ad nauseum in the side effects forum, but I've always found the skeptics put forward far more rational, reasonable arguments than the anti-finasteride brigade, who seem to mostly make outlandish claims without any real evidence to back it up, basing their theories on dubious anecdotal evidence from internet forums.

I don't doubt that Finasteride can have unwanted side effects for some men, but nowhere near the scope and severity that the Propeciahelpers claim - these guys are even drawing up lawsuits now, which in turn brings finasteride to the media attention, which simply results in more gross exaggeration and hysteria. The sad part is, many guys who could really be helped by finasteride get scared off using it
 

TheEscapist

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Antman, I know when to not claim intensive scientific intelligence, so I have no problem saying that I have absolutely no idea what the Hell I should take away from that post. That Propecia can affect everything from depression to seizures to drunks and gamblers? What was the main idea?

Quantum Cat, I agree with you mostly, but am nonetheless unwilling to take the consideration of Propecia as a long term drug of choice lightly. It does seem like something that, even if you don't notice side effects, or they go away, might be just a bad thing to consistently ingest for years and years..
The Propeciahelp society and lawsuits are very likely ailed primarily by hysteria and over dramatization, but I do believe that to alter your bloodchemistry for life is indeed a risky thing to consider.

Sadly I'll likely be bald in 2 years if I don't get on it by then. I'm 17, and its a son-of-a-b**ch choice to have to make whether or not I get on the one thing that can stop me from losing my hair so soon in life. But that's more geared towards my other thread, rather than the question of propeciahelp's legitimacy..
 

Quantum Cat

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don't forget, many men take Finasteride 5mg for enlarged prostate. The drug had been prescribed for years before Propecia came along. If it had such a devastating effect on so many patients then doctors would have noticed and reported it. Also, these men take 5mg tablets - way more than we do for our hair.


this is what the info leaflet with my generic 5mg finasteride says. This is from a generic company, not Merck who manufacture Propecia. Why would this manufacturer have any hidden agenda? If anything drug manufacturers probably overplay the potential for side effects rather than downplay them, so that they can't be held liable


the most common side effects are impotence and decreased sexual drive. These effects normally occur at the start of the treatment but do not usually last long in the majority of patients if treatment continues.

Common: decreased volume of ejaculate, impotence, decreased libido
Uncommon: ejaculation disorder, breast tenderness, breast enlargement
Unknown: testicular pain
Very rare: breast secretion
 

antman

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Antman, I know when to not claim intensive scientific intelligence, so I have no problem saying that I have absolutely no idea what the Hell I should take away from that post. That Propecia can affect everything from depression to seizures to drunks and gamblers? What was the main idea?

it was just to point out that propecia effects the human brain in lots of different ways - so side effects will happen in susceptible people - thus Propeciahelp.com does have truth to it.

but in people that are not susceptible to side effects - chances are Propecia will improve your quality of life - from its good results.
 

Admin

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Here's the important thing to remember, even about Antman's post on the first page of this thread:

If you took *ANY* pharmaceutical out there and picked it apart for possible side effects / effects on brain / effects on body .... you would have a list that long. Easily ten times longer for many of them. Its important to keep your perspective. Just because such and such happened when 500x the dose was directly injected into the uterus of a pregnant monkey doesn't mean the same will happen if a woman touches a broken Propecia tablet. But humans typically don't think that far into things. They will see a list like the one antman just posted and say "Hell no! Not going near that stuff!".

As i already pointed out - imagine if Propecia *killed* some people like v**** does? What then? Do you see millions of men avoiding v****? No. Is "death" on the Propecia list? No. How common are those things listed on antmans list? What doses were required to illicit those responses?

Is everything on that list based on 1mg daily antman? if not ... then those studies should never be referenced. By anyone. Because they're not applicable.

I can eat a chocolate chip cookie and rub my belly in pleasure afterwards. Or I can eat 50 of them and puke my brains out. Does that mean chocolate chip cookies make you puke?

No.
 

Wuffer

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That website lost all it's credibility the second it started posting ads encouraging lawsuits. That and the fact that every single piece of medical literature is posted there to make the drug look as dangerous as possible shows how incredibly biased and irrational the owners are. Personally I find it hard to take seriously as a whole, even though I know many of the members are genuine and just want to get better.

Anyway, there are websites filled with tens of thousands of people who believe aspartame caused horrible long lasting side effects, and I know every one of them is full of crap. Sure, finasteride probably causes persistent side effects. It's clearly so incredibly rare that it has never been encountered and described in a controlled medical study (and trust me there are a LOT of those) but it's probably a reality for an unfortunate small percentage. I think it's complete BS that you experience some hormonal crash after stopping the drug, which catalyzes these symptoms. What's more likely is what Admin described. Taking the drug for years even though you are experiencing side effects.

Yes, this drug can be dangerous. So can every other prescription medication out there. Compared to the SSRI class of drugs, finasteride is about as dangerous as a lick from a kitten. Hell, even OTC drugs are are clearly linked to symptoms like DEATH, something finasteride hasn't ever been directly attributed to. The drug has been taken by tens of millions of men for over two decades and still there isn't a single piece of literature that shows these horrible symptoms actually happening to a single patient in a controlled environment?

I know over a dozen guys that have taken or currently take it, gone on and off it multiple times with no issues. My doctor has prescribed it to hundreds of patients, and he hasn't ever heard of anyone having irreversible symptoms. He has been practicing for over 30 years and says he has absolutely no question about the safety profile.


Take the drug, you might get screwed for life. However, the (thousand times) more likely outcome is you have no issues, get a good therapeutic effect and move on through life with a hell of a lot more confidence.
 

Quantum Cat

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jesus that's some flimsy 'evidence' you keep posting over and over again, 'Hair to Learn'

Drug manufacturers go out of their way to list every possible potential side effect, including very serious ones, precisely because they're so afraid of being sued by people like you guys at Propeciahelp. I just looked at the info leaflet for a medication I'm taking (not Finasteride) and the 'side effects' section is as long as my arm. They list everything under the sun as a possible side, including the incredibly rare possibility of having a severe allergic reaction which could even result in death. (1 in a million)

for some reason you guys have singled out Merck and Propecia to go after so vehemently. You're seeing conspiracies where none exist.
 

Fanjeera

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Screw propeciahelp.com and go to www.pfsfoundation.org. Respected doctors are stating that this problem is real and are trying to resolve it.
 
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Admin is making too much sense...


Listen if something is effecting your body in a negative fashion ... way out the risk/rewards and make decision...


The ones with long standing effects made the choice, the fear of hairloss overrode there rational..... but others are lucky and never have sides... I still find issue with the ones that dont have sides being dismissive to the existence of sides.. "its in there head" ,, that makes fu cking sense, lets see, im going to stop taking this medication that saves my hair cause im imagining weird sh it that's happening to my body.... i have nothing else better to do than Fu ck my own sh it up.... makes sense....
 
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