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How Come Nizoral/ketoconazole Isn't More Popular?

Discussion in 'Antiandrogens - Propecia, Dutasteride, etc.' started by Dimitri001, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Rob from PerfectHairHealth strongly recommends that you include Ketoconazole shampoo in your hair loss regimen, based upon several studies that showed that it clearly helps with hair loss. He believes that it is best to use the 2% version if you can: https://perfecthairhealth.com/1-percent-or-2-percent-ketoconazole-shampoo/. The 2% version is over the counter in many countries, including here in the UK, but is prescription-only in the US.
     
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  2. SteveTabernack

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    Show me the real world results.

    "Big 3" LOL
     
  3. Throwaway94

    Throwaway94 Established Member My Regimen

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    You're a f*****g idiot. It works for seborrheic dermatitis because it kills yeast. It also works for some acne if it's fungal in origin. As antiandrogen it's piss weak especially as a shampoo.
     
  4. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Nothing works for you though except full HRT. Keto gave me excellent real world results at one time.
     
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  5. Throwaway94

    Throwaway94 Established Member My Regimen

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    Also if anyone can get their hands on one named Ketozal (Eastern Europe?) it's very good, not as harsh / drying as nizoral or sebizole
     
  6. jamesbooker1975

    jamesbooker1975 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahah. Yes , Sebum is created by yeast, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Do this, check your testosterone levels, take oral ketoconazole for 2 weeks, then check your testosterone levels and tell us. Yeast create testosterone ?! lol .
    "A single oral dose of 400 mg ketoconazole, a broad-spectrum antifungal drug, administered orally to 5 young men induced a drop in serum and saliva testosterone into the range of hypogonadism, while LH, FSH and prolactin levels remained unchanged."

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/632...se of,and prolactin levels remained unchanged.

    See, how you be such an idiot ? hey, may be it is a yeast in your brain ! lol
     
  7. jamesbooker1975

    jamesbooker1975 Senior Member My Regimen

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  8. jamesbooker1975

    jamesbooker1975 Senior Member My Regimen

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    How can you be so dumb ?! Ketoconazole shampoo works as an antiandrogen, thought it reduce sebum, if you reduce sebum, you produce drying !!!!!!
    Men, what the hell is wrong with you ? You have a full library only but you educated yourself with TMZ !!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Throwaway94

    Throwaway94 Established Member My Regimen

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    You're still a full fledged retard. Yeast causes seborrheic dermatitis, not necessarily sebum production just an inflammatory response where sebum is produced. Yes at high oral doses it can inhibit androgen synthesis. That doesn't translate to topical use with 5 mins of contact in shampoo.
     
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  10. jamesbooker1975

    jamesbooker1975 Senior Member My Regimen

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    So how you explain that it worked in all an in every single study done on Androgenetic Alopecia ? how do you explain it work for acne ?
    So Teens, suddenly they development yeast !? so that is why they have acne ?

    Jesus, first, 5 minutes are the instructions for yeast. Second, days after you apply shampoo you can test the hair and there is ketoconazole present. You have no idea, you are talking without reading any study, just your dumb common sense.

    "Yes at high oral doses it can inhibit androgen synthesis. That doesn't translate to topical use with 5 mins of contact in shampoo"

    Yes, IT DOES as all the studies done show it . It work in Androgenetic Alopecia. Period.
     
  11. Throwaway94

    Throwaway94 Established Member My Regimen

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    It only works for acne that is caused or exacerbated by yeast. This is common in teenagers due to the excess sebum produced from all the hormonal activity.

    No it doesn't, some of the studies do show an improvement but there's no reason to believe that the antiandrogenic properties of ketoconazole have anything to do with it. It's much better as an anti inflammatory and far more likely to see results from this aspect.

    You really are one of the thickest people on this forum. What's the point of you reading these articles that you can't actually comprehend?
     
  12. jamesbooker1975

    jamesbooker1975 Senior Member My Regimen

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    "It only works for acne that is caused or exacerbated by yeast" Hahahahahahahaha. Jesus dude, stop telling lies . So I guess that it only works on Androgentic alopecia that is caused or exacerbated by yeast!? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Show me one paper, only one, that is shows that Ketoconazole have anti inflamatories properties not based on their antiandrogenetic properties. Only one paper to prove it .
    Just one, cammon, show us ! lol, you are pathetic. You think, cause a drug was first development to treat "yeast" it can't have other properties . Lol.
     
  13. Throwaway94

    Throwaway94 Established Member My Regimen

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    Here's two for you, pretty f*****g easy to find you absolute useless c*** since that's the whole reason it has been successful.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14656566.8.9.1365

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17469872.3.1.15?src=recsys

    Now find me a study that shows that ketoconazole is an effective topical antiandrogen in the form of a shampoo.
     
  14. Dimitri001

    Dimitri001 Established Member My Regimen

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    Having skimmed those abstracts, all they say is that it's an anti-inflammatory, not that that's it's mechanism for fighting hair loss.

    The study pegasus linked to on the previous page shows that it's an effective hair loss treatment and that it inhibits test turning into DHT

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/dth.13202

    "In addition, ketoconazole blocks testosterone synthesis, thus decreasing DHT, and further supporting the theoretical role of ketoconazole in the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia (Pont, Williams, Azhar, et al., 1982)."

    ALthough they also say this:

    "Ketoconazole increased the ratio of hair regrowth to denuded area in both murine studies. This raises the possibility of a non‐androgenetic role of ketoconazole in hair regrowth. This could be due to anti‐inflammatory properties of ketoconazole and/or conversion of follicles out of the telogen resting phase. In Androgenetic Alopecia, hair follicles experience a brief anagen phase of growth and prolonged telogen (resting) phase, causing new hairs to be shorter (Piérard‐Franchimont & Piérard, 2001). However, hair regrowth in individuals using ketoconazole, but without a diagnosis of Androgenetic Alopecia, was not found in human studies. The study by Piérard‐Franchimont et al. (1998) included a control group of age‐matched men without Androgenetic Alopecia. In this group, the pilary index remained unchanged throughout the study regardless of use of ketoconazole or unmedicated shampoo. The reason for this difference between humans and mice is unclear."
     
    #34 Dimitri001, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  15. TomRiddle

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    I know it's anecdotal but i will share my experience with it also. I was very reluctant about it like i was with everything that i have found about hairloss treatments, whatever anybody says there is to much controversy and contradictory information about everything related to hairloss and not only but i will stick to the subject. This whole controversy and contradictory information makes it really hard for someone who actually has a brain and uses it to make a valuable and intelligent decision especially when you know that things could go wrong and that your health could get affected, your future, bla bla.

    Because of my research i decided to not go on finasteride whatever the costs of hairloss will be, i tried minoxidil and it only made things worse to a point where my hair was effectively destroyed from any aspect, from growth phases to scalp dryness and hair quality, i admit tho that i didn't researched it so well before starting to use it and just trusted a big dermatologist who advised me to use and how to use it, if i knew then what i know now i would have never started it in the first place, but that is another story.

    After a lot of research on Keto, i decided to give it a try but not with the cheap usual and common Nizoral with 2% Keto in it and after a lot of searches and documentation i have found Regenepure DR with only 1%, did not buy it from start and kept postponing it until a few months ago when i got it and started using it once a week. My hair quality before using it was really poor, my hair cycles were really fucked up and i really and strongly think that minoxidil did some permanent damage to some of my hair, even if i stopped using it and had almost one year without it and regardless of the fact that others could say that it was just my normal hairloss pattern progression and that these things would have happened anyways even if i would have not used minoxidil in the first place, i call it bullshit and nobody knows exactly what my experience was with it and so on, so i won't get into those kind of discussions.

    Now coming back to Keto and Regenepure DR, after a few uses, once a week, i started to feel my hair very different, it felt like it's gaining life again, it started feeling healthy and growing faster, my scalp felt very good and without any sign of seborrheic dermatitis, pimples, oily or whatever, when i touch it and feel it, it reminds me of the days when it was in it's "prime" and healthy as f***, i really did not expected such a positive experience with it. Now i did some things before starting keto also, i stopped washing my hair with any type of shampoo, first i said that i won't wash it with something that has sulfates or parabens in it and after i started washing it daily only with water, after a few months it started to not get oily anymore, it just started to feel better overall and i started dermarolling without anything once a week with an 1.5mm dermaroller and some diet and stress management changes also.

    Now i'm not saying or suggesting that it's gonna stop my hairloss or that it's gonna reverse it even if i'm starting to see hairs all over the place but it clearly does something for the health of the scalp and hairs, i am very pleased and upset that i did not started it earlier. Keep in mind that every possible study on hairloss and androgenic alopecia states clearly that the balding scalp has problems with over productive sebum glands, with a lot of types of scalp eczema, Malassezia yeast, dandruff, oily scalp, dryness and so on, there are a lot of factors that are causing them, from genetic and hormonal to immune system problems and much more, it's not just as simple as it sounds, "DHT is killing take finasteride and that's that", if it would have been the case everybody who took or takes it would have had a full head of hair.
     
  16. tomJ

    tomJ Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yea and I guarantee some of your testosterone levels are dipping from the shampoo. I know mine do...just about everything goes systemic fyi...and if you notice you get more tired a few hours after using nizoral or keto shampoo, guess what is happening ladies and gentlemen??
     
  17. Dimitri001

    Dimitri001 Established Member My Regimen

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    https://sci-hub.tw/10.1080/09546634.2019.1573309

    "At high systemic concentrations, KTZ may block androgen biosynthesis throug
    cytochrome p450, C17,20-lyase, 17α-hydroxylase, 11β-hydroxylase.95–97 Although it is unlikely that topica KTZ will reach required systemic levels"

    https://arpimed.am/1414-2/

    "Ketoconazole 2% shampoo was not detected in plasma in 39 patients who shampooed 4-10 times per week for 6 months, or in 33 patients who shampooed 2-3 times per week for 3-26 months ( mean: 16 months). Systemic absorption following topical application in healthy subjects practically absents and has not any notable clinical effect."

    That said,

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...le/85711_1_1&usg=AOvVaw0tOgR7zTPI6f3zf_tNmawN

    "After topical application of ketoconazole cream 2% in children systemic absorption is detected. One study (Taieb 1990) in infants with seborrheic dermatitis (n=19) where approximately 40 mg of Nizoral cream 2% was applied on 40% of the body surface area, plasma levels of ketoconazole were detected in 5 infants, ranging from 3-133 ng/ml."

    But that's cream applied to 40% of body surface and on infants who may have more porous skin.

    That said, the study that says no systemic absorption from shampoo is small sample size. Would be interesting to see a larger study.
     
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  18. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member My Regimen

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    It's not common knowledge, but oral Keto is actually a potent AA. It's not used because of its poor safety profile when taken orally. On the scalp it's perfectly safe, and an OTC med at 1%. AA isn't its only MOA though. Research HSD-1.
     
  19. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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    I don't remember noticing any side effects from the shampoo (left on for 5 minutes). However, on the German forum the common way most people use it is to prepare a 50:50 ethanol-based lotion that they leave on their head for 30 minutes for better penetration. When I did that, I did feel quite tired the subsequent day.
     
  20. tomJ

    tomJ Senior Member My Regimen

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    I think scalp thickness plays a role for SOME..I know I have a thin scalp...also I went without nizoral for a while and decided to try it again recently. I felt ok and then tried it again a week later and the fatigue and mental cloudiness sides came back.
     
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