Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

[JaneyElizabeth]

Only up to page 6 so far so not sure if this has been discussed more extensively, but the idea of doing topical estro + Tamoxifene seems interesting, especially for hair and skin improvements. Though is it a result of increased estrogen or just crushing testosterone levels?

Are you speaking about me or therapy with tamoxi? I have mantained T levels at ~8 pmol and my E2 levels have been at first trimester pregnancy levels for the past year ~2,600 pg/ml. My latest test which I posted on here yesterday was only ~106 pg/ml but it was sort of to come down from pregnancy levels and then shoot for ~300 pg/ml. I am trying to work this out with my practitioner but we might use one Climara 100 and one 50 and see where that takes us in levels. I was also using before some Premarin and a lot of Estrogel on my scalp and I am sure that that went systemic.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

He took 50 mg for 10 years, along with 10+ other medications. Guy was constantly a week from dying. And the article states that 5 months after stopping it, the growth stopped/reversed.

 

[yurguardianangel]

He took 50 mg for 10 years, along with 10+ other medications. Guy was constantly a week from dying. And the article states that 5 months after stopping it, the growth stopped/reversed.

Ewwwww his skin looks the worst ever.
I'd rather be bald than look like that.

He should have just used a hair system instead.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

Are you speaking about me or therapy with tamoxi? I have mantained T levels at ~8 pmol and my E2 levels have been at first trimester pregnancy levels for the past year ~2,600 pg/ml. My latest test which I posted on here yesterday was only ~106 pg/ml but it was sort of to come down from pregnancy levels and then shoot for ~300 pg/ml. I am trying to work this out with my practitioner but we might use one Climara 100 and one 50 and see where that takes us in levels. I was also using before some Premarin and a lot of Estrogel on my scalp and I am sure that that went systemic.

I was not aware that you were using it on your scalp. Do you feel like it helped, or were you already using it for the purpose of transitioning and not solely hair growth?

I was speaking about using topical estro on the scalp + tamox/ralox or some other SERM - an AI wouldn't help if we're inducing external estrogen.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

Ewwwww his skin looks the worst ever.
I'd rather be bald than look like that.

He should have just used a hair system instead.

I don't believe that it has happened to anyone else either, it's a one off case that resulted from him using 5x the recommended dosage for 10 years straight.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

He took 50 mg for 10 years, along with 10+ other medications. Guy was constantly a week from dying. And the article states that 5 months after stopping it, the growth stopped/reversed.

Plus that is shitty hair similar to what might be called mob hair similar to Big Pussy's, a hair helmet that is pretty unmanageable, won't grow long and is just eh:

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I was not aware that you were using it on your scalp. Do you feel like it helped, or were you already using it for the purpose of transitioning and not solely hair growth?

I was speaking about using topical estro on the scalp + tamox/ralox or some other SERM - an AI wouldn't help if we're inducing external estrogen.

I go back and forth on topical estrogen. I love Estrogel but I was using it essentially as a hair tonic on the entire scalp and often twice a day. I don't think this level of usage is possible without feminizing. Once my bald spot completely filled in, then I began using it more so only on the scalp's hairline and any thin spots still visible which became fewer and fewer. I have spent more money on Estrogel than I care to say but this was essentially my one year push and plan after several years of low-dose estradiol grew big breasts but very little hair.

I think hitting at least 300pg/ml might be necessary though to kick off re-growth but I and another similar person on HRT, @bridgeburn, from the past who posted pics of similar improvement have probably been far north of 300pg/ml during our main courses of treatment. We both also used oral min and that might kick-start things as well. Bridge's thread is still up but he hasn't posted in a couple of years and nobody has filled the gap. People need to see progress over time to evaluate this and not think it is a hoax based upon lighting or going in reverse in pics or whatever. One before and after pic is unlikely to change anyone's opinion but even many MtF's continue to think that what I have done is or was impossible. I have also microneedled for almost two years weekly and never less than twice a month so that has helped too, I am sure:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/n20fnp

Now I am trying P4 cream on my hairline and face and that is reputed to target both DHT and T but my restoration is probably too far along for me to tell. I also take 100mg daily of Prometrium. Bridge cycled three times as much but only for ten days.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

Plus that is shitty hair similar to what might be called mob hair similar to Big Pussy's, a hair helmet that is pretty unmanageable, won't grow long and is just eh:

View attachment 161439

He's still got the dreamy may-love-you-may-strangle-you look though

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I don't believe that it has happened to anyone else either, it's a one off case that resulted from him using 5x the recommended dosage for 10 years straight.

I just found out that a close acquaintance of mine on Reddit has been maintaining pregnancy levels of E2 for over six years via ingestions with only one short break and she reported last week three blood clots. I only did it for one year but I don't recommend such lofty levels to anyone who is not sort of a pioneer. So I was essentially at ten times the recommended dosage/E2 levels. I think that guy is just ugly but he could have another endocrine problem too.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

I go back and forth on topical estrogen. I love Estrogel but I was using it essentially as a hair tonic on the entire scalp and often twice a day. I don't think this level of usage is possible without feminizing. Once my bald spot completely filled in, then I began using it more so only on the scalp's hairline and any thin spots still visible which became fewer and fewer. I have spent more money on Estrogel than I care to say but this was essentially my one year push and plan after several years of low-dose estradiol grew big breasts but very little hair.

I think hitting at least 300pg/ml might be necessary though to kick off re-growth but I and another similar person on HRT, @bridgeburn, from the past who posted pics of similar improvement have probably been far north of 300pg/ml during our main courses of treatment. We both also used oral min and that might kick-start things as well. Bridge's thread is still up but he hasn't posted in a couple of years and nobody has filled the gap. People need to see progress over time to evaluate this and not think it is a hoax based upon lighting or going in reverse in pics or whatever. One before and after pic is unlikely to change anyone's opinion but even many MtF's continue to think that what I have done is or was impossible. I have also microneedled for almost two years weekly and never less than twice a month so that has helped too, I am sure:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/n20fnp

Now I am trying P4 cream on my hairline and face and that is reputed to target both DHT and T but my restoration is probably too far along for me to tell. I also take 100mg daily of Prometrium. Bridge cycled three times as much but only for ten days.

Which brings another question, would high estrogen levels in the context of high testosterone levels still have the same effect? Has anyone actually tried using topical estrogen outside of the context of transitioning, especially with SERM use?

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

I just found out that a close acquaintance of mine on Reddit has been maintaining pregnancy levels of E2 for over six years via ingestions with only one short break and she reported last week three blood clots. I only did it for one year but I don't recommend such lofty levels to anyone who is not sort of a pioneer. So I was essentially at ten times the recommended dosage/E2 levels. I think that guy is just ugly but he could have another endocrine problem too.

Well yeah, that's to be expected. There's a reason why BC is associated with increased levels of blood clots. Though the interesting thing is that lowering the dose of ethinyl estradiol taken hasn't really decreased the risk in studies. HRT is also no longer supported as a treatment with the goal of cardiovascular protection.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I also wanted to provide this as a point of reference for those who think all MtF's automatically experience full or even partial hair restoration. It isn't true and many MtF's think that what I have achieved is anomolous and formerly, thought it impossible so I hope my progress pics, along with my constant updated protocols and testing results can provide more clarity. I think that what @bridgeburn and I have seen is replicable with "extreme HRT" but maybe not at 100pg/ml to 200pg/ml.

This is my link to what I posted on reddit as answers to comments from people who were directed by my link to the pictures here. I think that the level of discourse was high and productive for others using HRT or thinking about it, for hair:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/n20fnp

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Well yeah, that's to be expected. There's a reason why BC is associated with increased levels of blood clots. Though the interesting thing is that lowering the dose of ethinyl estradiol taken hasn't really decreased the risk in studies. HRT is also no longer supported as a treatment with the goal of cardiovascular protection.

We thought that parenteral was far safer and it is but she pushed almost 7 years straight of pregnancy levels and who knows if injections contributed to it but I use the patch which I deem the safest and best E2 med.

I agree about EE and CEE's but we don't have to use them forever, just during initial transition and only if we feel that they are better for hair or among MtF's breast growth, which is a constant preoccupation. @bridgeburn started on ethinyl estradiol if I recall correctly but then switched to 2mg bio-identical tabs and he was at 6 mg SL plus a significant dosing of an AA so those are probably levels higher than 300 pg/ml.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

I also wanted to provide this as a point of reference for those who think all MtF's automatically experience full or even partial hair restoration. It isn't true and many MtF's think that what I have achieved is anomolous and formerly, thought it impossible so I hope my progress pics, along with my constant updated protocols and testing results can provide more clarity. I think that what @bridgeburn and I have seen is replicable with "extreme HRT" but maybe not at 100pg/ml to 200pg/ml.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/n20fnp

I wonder about elevated estrogen in the context of steroid use. If an AI is not used, estrogen will spike >100pg/ml, though I can't think of an actual range off the top of my head - hence, many users growing gynocomastia. Wonder if allowing it to spike high while still having 2000+ ng/dl testosterone would help with hair regrowth. Though it would likely have many of the same sides - ED, acne, etc.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I wonder about elevated estrogen in the context of steroid use. If an AI is not used, estrogen will spike >100pg/ml, though I can't think of an actual range off the top of my head - hence, many users growing gynocomastia. Wonder if allowing it to spike high while still having 2000+ ng/dl testosterone would help with hair regrowth. Though it would likely have many of the same sides - ED, acne, etc.

I often wonder if there are benefits to high spikes which are associated with injections in the MtF world. I also wonder if steady state might matter to hair as well as per the patch. Generally, not including hair, all estrogen methods in general seem to provide the same exterior "results" but as you might see in the comments above, many MtF's don't even expect hair regrowth or have given up on it, puzzled as to why it isn't working for them. Bridge and I also used oral min consistently which could make a big difference in results.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

We thought that parenteral was far safer and it is but she pushed almost 7 years straight of pregnancy levels and who knows if injections contributed to it but I use the patch which I deem the safest and best E2 med.

I agree about EE and CEE's but we don't have to use them forever, just during initial transition and only if we feel that they are better for hair or among MtF's breast growth, which is a constant preoccupation. @bridgeburn started on ethinyl estradiol if I recall correctly but then switched to 2mg bio-identical tabs and he was at 6 mg SL plus a significant dosing of an AA so those are probably levels higher than 300 pg/ml.

"Overall exposure to HRT in the past 90 days was associated with a 43% increased VTE risk"

Most recent study I could find. Looks like it's not how long you are on it for, and after you have been off for 90 days risk decreases significantly. It's just recent use that really increases risk.

Use of hormone replacement therapy and risk of venous thromboembolism: nested case-control studies using the QResearch and CPRD databases

Objective To assess the association between risk of venous thromboembolism and use of different types of hormone replacement therapy. Design Two nested case-control studies. Setting UK general practices contributing to the QResearch or Clinical Practice Research Datalink (CPRD) databases, and...

www.bmj.com

I believe there was also some chatter going around about the COVID vaccine blood clots affecting primarily females on birth control also.

 

[BiggerDownBelow]

I often wonder if there are benefits to high spikes which are associated with injections in the MtF world. I also wonder if steady state might matter to hair as well as per the patch. Generally, not including hair, all estrogen methods in general seem to provide the same exterior "results" but as you might see in the comments above, many MtF's don't even expect hair regrowth or have given up on it, puzzled as to why it isn't working for them. Bridge and I also used oral min consistently which could make a big difference in results.

I would guess no. Significantly more dangerous also. Though a high level of estrogen would suppress the HTPA, which may help w/ balding.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

"Overall exposure to HRT in the past 90 days was associated with a 43% increased VTE risk"

Most recent study I could find. Looks like it's not how long you are on it for, and after you have been off for 90 days risk decreases significantly. It's just recent use that really increases risk.

Use of hormone replacement therapy and risk of venous thromboembolism: nested case-control studies using the QResearch and CPRD databases

Objective To assess the association between risk of venous thromboembolism and use of different types of hormone replacement therapy. Design Two nested case-control studies. Setting UK general practices contributing to the QResearch or Clinical Practice Research Datalink (CPRD) databases, and...

www.bmj.com

I believe there was also some chatter going around about the COVID vaccine blood clots affecting primarily females on birth control also.

I heard that Covid seemed to attack more so men who were balding for some reason. Yeah so now I guess were are getting push-back regarding even parenteral estrogen. Many of us prefer the psychological aspects of higher E2 and this seems to be especially true for people using injections. I used to dismiss this aspect but higher E2 definitely increases libido. Libido falls and falls as we become chemically female but higher levels, most of us report, can greatly increase libido and even allow some fantasizing. Before as I just approached levels, I couldn't fantasize at all anymore so for auto-gratification, these too things are strongly linked unless we are just bottoming face down for a partner while working on our computers, not that I do or have done that, <winks> That was how one of my ex's preferred sex since she was a hard worker.

The say that T is for libido for both sexes or they have but now research shows that E2 is the mammalian sex drive creator, not T.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/n2lbda

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I am re-reading @bridge. Here's a link. I only recommend the parts when he is actually writing and I can't endorse anything done by any of the others because those folks were fleeting:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/exploring-the-hormonal-route-hair-life.109288/