Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

How far are you willing to go to restore a full head of hair?

  • Full-blown Feminization

    Votes: 39 15.0%
  • Slight Gyno

    Votes: 45 17.3%
  • Slight Breast Growth

    Votes: 27 10.4%
  • Only "Male" Treatments

    Votes: 90 34.6%
  • Dude, I won't even touch finasteride

    Votes: 59 22.7%

  • Total voters
    260

JaneyElizabeth

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I am only in this for the hair!

This is my trademarked saying and title for my book on how to transition right. Just putting it up as food for thought and to preserve my title. My trademarked response to a disappointed father is this: "Dad, at least I'm not gay. I still dig chicks!" Satire....

But yeah, that's what I said. You have to break it to people in terms that they can understand and relate to by focusing on the positive. "Hey, I'm not bald now and that won't embarrass the family anymore".

What not to say: "Yeah. I am an MtF but I am actually pretty hot and I have really big ones. All the boys want me".

He will not be proud to hear this nor will you soon to be ex-wife. Again satire. I only said that to my ex-wife.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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New Pics: "I don't either "male-fail", honey"....

I could grumble about the lighting which exaggerates my forehead but eh. I think these pics show that essentially perfect recoveries are needed to pass. As the hair in front moves downward, I might not look male anymore even when I butch it up like here. My hairline looks thinnish in certain lighting but with the hand mirror all of that is filed in. There are a line of plugs in the center that don't lie quite like they should and they reflect. Derma-rolling has been substantially shrinking such tissue.
 

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JaneyElizabeth

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he says topical estrogen is meh
I posted that article two days ago and did a mini-review already expressing my thoughts. That guy's a body builder which constitutes an ad hominem attack lol but I think he overlooked a few things including the idea of balding scalp being akin to a wound. :)
 

JaneyElizabeth

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he says topical estrogen is meh
Lol. I already know that. I posted the same article on Saturday, I think. I am not sure what Mr. Plates' solution is, if not estradiol because dissing on Estrogel says nothing about the patch, or injections, or bucal or SL or swallowing tabs or pellets, drinking one's girlfriend's urine, etc. All of these treatments work effectively for feminization including pills made from the urine of pregnant mares, which equals Premarin which I have been on for 30 months since I currently lack a girlfriend....

We have been adding pages fast lately which is why you probably didn't see this:


Goddess bless.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Norwoody

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For one, Derek's hair loss isn't all that severe. He has seen regrowth on, and currently maintains with finasteride and RU - but he doesn't even use minoxidil at all. For those who are working with slick bald areas, and need a full lineup, my guess is that estrogen is probably going to be more valuable. And who knows how topical estrogen would or wouldn't react with someone who has blasted all kinds of androgenic substances before. Point being, you can't judge it based off of one individual's experience.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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For one, Derek's hair loss isn't all that severe. He has seen regrowth on, and currently maintains with finasteride and RU - but he doesn't even use minoxidil at all. For those who are working with slick bald areas, and need a full lineup, my guess is that estrogen is probably going to be more valuable. And who knows how topical estrogen would or wouldn't react with someone who has blasted all kinds of androgenic substances before. Point being, you can't judge it based off of one individual's experience.
I think that I mentioned in my response that both amount of scalp fat and scalp thickness are likely to have a significant effect on absorption and also on the diminution of unwanted scalp flora. The other thing that bothered me is as Norwoody says, you can't pass recommendations on just one person's anecdotal experience. It's a data point but he sounded pretty negative about estrogen in general which is a common male reaction and probably why so many want to use AA's but not estrogen. Using estrogen would amount to dealing with the issue hidden in the closet:

If a guy uses estrogen, what if he likes it?
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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he says topical estrogen is meh


He is also a claimed "super responder" to RU, whereas RU basically gave me severe heart palpitations.

Also you can tell all the antiandrogens he's pounding himself with are taking a toll on his collagen and skin, so it's up to you. Personally I'm straight loving estriol, but I'm the kind of guy who looks a bit better with some meat on my face and nicer smoother skin. I by no means look feminine (at least I don't think so) but I do look younger and that look suits me better.

We already have proof that estrogen is the bees knees at getting hair back, it's all in whether you're down for the other effects it may exert as well.

I will say this, as of now the only side effect I seem to get is I got headaches from using too much estriol once, but that aside I still literally have to take supplemental antiandrogens to keep my libido from waking me up in the middle of the night.

We'll see how things go when I get my 17b estradiol, but I'm quite optimistic.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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For one, Derek's hair loss isn't all that severe. He has seen regrowth on, and currently maintains with finasteride and RU - but he doesn't even use minoxidil at all. For those who are working with slick bald areas, and need a full lineup, my guess is that estrogen is probably going to be more valuable. And who knows how topical estrogen would or wouldn't react with someone who has blasted all kinds of androgenic substances before. Point being, you can't judge it based off of one individual's experience.

Yeah, clearly what he's doing works for him, and I'm glad for it, hair loss is not a cookiecutter ordeal. But do not close your mind off to certain possibilities, had I listened to Kevin Mann's opinion on finacea I probably wouldn't be enjoying the resurgent hair growth that I'm currently experiencing, no offence to him, his hair looks f*****g amazing, and he's a good looking guy, so I'm happy for him.
 

Jonny Craig

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He is also a claimed "super responder" to RU, whereas RU basically gave me severe heart palpitations.

Also you can tell all the antiandrogens he's pounding himself with are taking a toll on his collagen and skin, so it's up to you. Personally I'm straight loving estriol, but I'm the kind of guy who looks a bit better with some meat on my face and nicer smoother skin. I by no means look feminine (at least I don't think so) but I do look younger and that look suits me better.

We already have proof that estrogen is the bees knees at getting hair back, it's all in whether you're down for the other effects it may exert as well.

I will say this, as of now the only side effect I seem to get is I got headaches from using too much estriol once, but that aside I still literally have to take supplemental antiandrogens to keep my libido from waking me up in the middle of the night.

We'll see how things go when I get my 17b estradiol, but I'm quite optimistic.

RU killed my hairline within 3 months... I was stable and just, boom. Very odd response.

Just to be clear to everyone, I am not taking sides, I am not saying he is right or wrong, simply found that interesting. The main reason why I found that particularly interesting was the fact that he said when topical E is used, it turns into estrone in the body... and I know @Obsessive had confirmed this a while ago, and at the time he said he wasn't even sure if E was helping or hurting his hair.

As crazy as this sounds, I prefer the sides from estrogen than the possible unpredictable and potentially permanent sides from finasteride/dutasteride. So I am totally onboard the E train.

My face/skin looked terrific on bi-estro (estriol-estradiol) cream as well.

I have been applying bi-estrocare for the past 3-4 days (had some left over), so trust me, I want to believe and the science makes sense.

@JaneyElizabeth very good point about it helping wounds as well (scarring). I absolutely need that. Is Estriol helpful for wounds though, I think i only saw studies mentioning estradiol? and how good is estradiol for wounds actually? I can't remember who said this, may have been bridge, but someone was using estrogel on scars and the scar instead of being white/odd it started to look like normal skin...
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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RU killed my hairline within 3 months... I was stable and just, boom. Very odd response.

Just to be clear to everyone, I am not taking sides, I am not saying he is right or wrong, simply found that interesting. The main reason why I found that particularly interesting was the fact that he said when topical E is used, it turns into estrone in the body... and I know @Obsessive had confirmed this a while ago, and at the time he said he wasn't even sure if E was helping or hurting his hair.

As crazy as this sounds, I prefer the sides from estrogen than the possible unpredictable and potentially permanent sides from finasteride/dutasteride. So I am totally onboard the E train.

My face/skin looked terrific on bi-estro (estriol-estradiol) cream as well.

I have been applying bi-estrocare for the past 3-4 days (had some left over), so trust me, I want to believe and the science makes sense.

@JaneyElizabeth very good point about it helping wounds as well (scarring). I absolutely need that. Is Estriol helpful for wounds though, I think i only saw studies mentioning estradiol? and how good is estradiol for wounds actually? I can't remember who said this, may have been bridge, but someone was using estrogel on scars and the scar instead of being white/odd it started to look like normal skin...
I am beginning to believe that sheds are not bad things but rather good things. Anyone who abandons therapy of a hormonal medication during a shed might be simply putting himself back at the starting line. Why? It doesn't make sense that any of theses meds would hurt hair; instead the body is putting a large amount into catagen and then quick anagen, an anagen that is significantly larger than before. It's the only thing that seems to make sense. The only difference between me and everyone else who has mentioned sheds from hormonal meds is that I continued taking the same exact dosage all through mine.

So there are two things applicable perhaps. One is that people going into this only do so if they are prepared to ride any sheds out. If not, then you have to titrate downards because most are starting on substantial doses which put hair into a quick "female" state where the body rejects much of its hair. Why would it do this? The theory is that doing this is more efficient to the body than doing it piecemeal in terms of resources. So paradoxically, those of you who are in a hurry to restore hair should seek sheds quickly at the beginning and move through them.

Having a hair system or being prepared to wear a crew cut for several months need to be incorporated into the therapy in order to ride sheds out. I had the advantage of "knowing" that spironolactone plus E2 meant more hair, not less so I just proceeded onward. Not for one second did I think my hair wouldn't come back better than before, with yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone.... Don't stop thinking about tomorrow, don't stop, it will soon be here. It will be here better than before, yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone...

So, when sheds come, MtF's have to ride them out if hormones are part of their transition, that's why MtF's might be more successful at this.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Yeah, clearly what he's doing works for him, and I'm glad for it, hair loss is not a cookiecutter ordeal. But do not close your mind off to certain possibilities, had I listened to Kevin Mann's opinion on finacea I probably wouldn't be enjoying the resurgent hair growth that I'm currently experiencing, no offence to him, his hair looks f*****g amazing, and he's a good looking guy, so I'm happy for him.
Is Kevin the nice looking black gentleman doing the youtube videos on hair loss?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Sheds, Proven Medications and Topical Estrogel:
Marginal, Incremental Improvements vs. Hair Restoration


Sheds are one of the main issues that I want to help folks with and which I wanted to get feedback about. Given that folks complain about sheds related to all of the top-tier treatments, what does that mean? Does it mean that such treatments don't work or does it mean that they work, temporarily, too well? I think that it is the latter. This is why I virtually always recommend lower starting dosages. Do not start off using what @bridgeburn or I use if avoiding sheds is a major issue.

First of all, virtually no one has alleged sheds while using estradiol only but that is pretty rare for anyone to use single-shot. Most sheds alleged come from things that work either singly or in conjunction with another: minoxidil, finasteride, dutasteride, RU and all of the AA's but estradiol might too. Second, consider going into the hormonal approach wanting a shed and make a backup plan to get yourself through one. The easiest is probably shaving your head when starting or as soon as a shed begins but wigs and hair systems used temporarily might be better for say, presentation in a corporate setting. Then ride out the shed until hair is long enough that you feel comfortable again. This idea that sheds indicate that a med is not working seems to have no data associated with it. This certainly doesn't seem to be an issue of a person not responding to a med hair-wise; it seems to be an issue of responding too well. That's why I disbelieved in sheds for a long time or thought that they were exaggerated.

Now, I am starting to believe that sheds are a token of the med working very well and starting an initiation of better/female hair. If we want to do this by avoiding sheds, then I recommend titrating, starting slow and low and then gradually titrating upwards. AA's seem to be jarring to the system and it could be that AA's are liable to cause massive sheds by working too well, too fast. Nobody seeking success should stop during a shed or you are back to square one. There's a reason there are so few of us with success out there. This is hard to achieve without sustained commitment. I have shown to myself and maybe to others that just using some Estrogel on top does not seem a pathway out of this except for maintenance and some subtle improvements.

Another thing about AA's compared to MPA or progesterone is that they might hi-jack, if you will male receptors much more quickly and forcefully than estradiol by itself; that's what they do, occupy male receptors and this could be what causes the "benevolent sheds", the term that I have created to try to explain the phenomenon of sheds propelling us in the right direction. In this scenario, AA's quickly occupy all male receptors in the scalp and the body senses this signal and puts all of the hair affected by these receptors into quick catagen/telogen towards a quick, permanent recovery, provided that the AA's with estrogen continue in use.

Estrogen can likewise occupy or turn-off such receptors but it takes much longer and is therefore less of a bumpy ride towards hair improvement until hair growth is "turned back on" upon reaching ~200pg/ml.

Finally, what is the plan for the future if it turns out that maintaining hormonal levels as a female is necessary for both success and maintenance? Noah is trying to "go back" using only dutasteride. Now here, using moderate amounts of Estrogel might work great. Oral minoxidil might help preserve gains. We all proceed at out our risk and towards our own benefit but by providing feedback, maybe we can make this more foolproof and establish a protocol that is safer related to avoiding sheds while at the same time acknowledging that sheds are good when using proven hair meds, not bad.

Micro-needling has really had an effect on my thoughts about hair loss because of its effects on scar tissue. Scar tissue is something that the body can heal for both males and females; however, it rarely does so after the scar tissue reaches a point of stasis. Micro-needling appears to "trick" the body into expending resources to fix the scar tissue, and it might do similar things to balding scalp tissue. The difference is that scars don't return but balding scalp will, if micro-needling is desisted from. So the main difference seems to be that balding is an on-going hormonal process while scar tissue is a one-shot process but the principle of inducing the body to fix things that "it thinks are good enough" seems to make sense. Nobody dies from baldness per se so why expend the system's resources to fix it once it is prevalent. I also think that beard growth and hair growth are delicately counter-balanced in whites and so again, that is why hair restoration is hard. Some MtF's (in a hormonal sense) like @bridgeburn lose most beard development but older MtF's like me usually have to endure beard removal. Regardless, not having currently active beard follicles might be associated with better hair outcomes and it was Marky with his boy band predilections that led me to this supposition.

One thing that I have learned about writing in a legal context and also related to hormonal treatments is to avoid categorical judgments or assertions. I try to always put in "maybe", "perhaps" "possibly" etc. If the hair loss researchers don't know the answers than we are unlikely to find them except anecdotally so that's why an enduring community like this is needed. We aren't like people taking zinc or using caffeine; we know that our approach can work; instead we are trying to tailor it more so to individual needs. Sometimes, on other threads, people take umbrage and say things like "of course, trannies alway grow their hair back"; well, no they don't. We just wear wigs a lot and the one's who eschew wigs in such a scenario are the ones who get bullied. When new data points indicate that I am wrong in certain suppositions, I try not to cling to previously stated hypotheses. I had hoped that Estrogel used on the scalp could be a solution for cis-men in terms of hair restoration and it appears to me now, that it can only do so marginally unless and until someone hits adult female targets of say ~200pg/ml. It could be ~100pg/ml but it is substantially higher in terms of serum estradiol than any male is likely to have on his own.

Goddess bless.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Basic Principles: Testosterone vs. Estrogen in the Human System:

One thing that is apparent when analysis of the sex hormones is done, is that the serum blood levels are calculated using two different measurement ratios. For estrogens, we use picograms per milliliter. For androgens, we use nanograms per milliliter. What's the difference? One nanogram equals 1000 picograms. So, essentially everyone, males and females has loads more testosterone inside them than they have of the chemically, very similar, estradiol.


Estrogens and Nomenclature:

There are three main estrogens denoted as E1, E2, and E3, or Estriol, Estradiol, and Estrone. Sometimes, a fourth is mentioned which is Estetrol or E4. So how were these abbreviations categorized? This is done by counting the number of hydroxyl groups (OH) attached to each molecule. They all are synthesized, like androgens, from cholesterol molecules and such steroidal hormones are quite closely related in terms of molecular structure.

All of the different forms of estrogen are synthesized from androgens, specifically testosterone and androstenedione, by the enzyme aromatase.

Structural Effects
  • Anabolic: Increases muscle mass and strength, speed of muscle regeneration, and bone density, increased sensitivity to exercise, protection against muscle damage, stronger collagen synthesis, increases the collagen content of connective tissues, tendons, and ligaments, but also decreases stiffness of tendons and ligaments (especially during menstruation). Decreased stiffness of tendons gives women much lower predisposition to muscle strains but soft ligaments are much more prone to injuries (ACL tears are 2-8x more common among women than men).[20][21][22][23]
  • Anti-inflammatory properties

Spotted Hyenas: Animals that are as close to androgynous as possible:

Spotted hyenas are amazing creatures in many ways and perhaps it is the endocrine profile that makes them so. These animals are very difficult to differentiate in nature because the females boast of more testosterone than do the males. Birth is given through the extended clitoris, not through the vagina as female spotted hyenas have fused labia. The pecking order is always female superior and males get their status through relationship with a mother towards the top of the pecking line. All male hyenas can be viewed in their social order licking the genitalia of females; conversely, no females do so for male hyenas. Only male hyenas lick other male hyenas.

If we think about T levels and E2 levels sort of meeting in the middle, that might equate to hyenas.

 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Progesterone: Is it necessary for either feminization or hair restoration, or as an intermediary


This article has received some criticism as she appears to be far too lofty about progesterone's effects on breast and nipple development. It probably shows that using 300mg oral of progesterone daily might have significant benefits with no countervailing negatives. I have been using 300mg nightly but only one third of a month, thus ten days following twenty days without. This is an example of me copying someone else's successful MtF protocol instead of re-inventing the wheel. Thus ceteris paribus, things that work for others are likely to at least not be detrimental to results, i.e., the effects are all skewed to the benefit side or as in the vernacular "it can't hurt".

Since progesterone is usually taken orally, 300 mg orally is probably easier than using the topical versions available on Amazon but you never know. If progesterone has topical effects it might work great topically for facial feminization, breast growth and hair restoration just like Estrogel, assuming that does more topically than oral. Why did this person, whose name I have forgotten only use it ten days a month? I think that (s)he was emulating women's cyclic progesterone therapy but since the Prometrium bottles come 100 per bottle, the math is much easier just taking 3 X 10 days per month. I note that Prometrium is indicated for ten days a month @400mg to restart one's period, so this might be where the ten days cycling.

I think that I just figured that 200mg was possible not enough after passing through the liver.

Cyclic progesterone is 14 days on, followed by 14 days off, but then you have to think how much to take each time. I just roll three of them (yes, they roll all across the floor under the bed) into my now-smaller hands and take them orally. For folks with the means, three per day or nine total while maintain female adult progesterone levels according to the article for 24 hours. Otherwise, taking just 100 mg daily essentially gets consumed by the system but not into the blood. 300mg is strong enough to deliver the systemically normal levels through the liver. Powers people use them up the ***, which works great but the pills secrete out of their gel capsules, ahem, so dark underwear is a requirement. They look just like hiho cherry-o pieces and come in bright red and orange. These are weird meds.

 
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JaneyElizabeth

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@bridgeburn Dosage Recommendations:

I am trying to keep up a bit with @bridgeburn's dosing as we know that it will work. He was taking his estrogen sublingually so that means more or less it is three times as potent but has a shorter half-life from what I have read. This is about at his 9 month mark, I think:

abcnamed said:


hi, may l ask you, what's your final complete regime now?
which kind of estradiol are you using?
ethinyl estradiol ،valerate?! topical or orally or both? in which dose?,
and are you using cyproterone 50 now?
thanks
.5mg Dutasteride
2.25mg oestrogel topically
2mg estradiol hemihydrate, buccally
50mg cyproterone
10mg oral minoxidil, every other day

In terms of strength, this would be a pretty standard male to female HRT protocol for someone well into transition or maintaining adult female target levels except the CPA is off the charts. This is puzzling because he was doing fine without CPA but he might be struggling with the temples. He cut back on the oral minoxidil because someone alleged that that was causing some/much of his growth. I highly doubt this because the growth he has simply doesn't resemble minoxidil hair growth in its pervasiveness. I don't think anyone is claiming that oral minoxidil on its own could do anything close to his gains. He mentions that oral minoxidil has a short half-life so I am not sure why he didn't just go to 2.5mg twice a day.

He explains that he decreased oral minoxidil dosage due to excessive unwanted hair growth.

On August 25th, 2018, this was his regimen:

Second Cocktail in his own words, dating from late summer to fall of 2018:

1mg dutasteride everyday, 6mg buccal estrofem (a couple times i took 8mg but mostly 6mg a day), 200mg spironolactone, 500mg sulfasalizine, 10mg oral minoxidil every other day and topical minoxidil every other day on alternating days (I don't really measure just cover the area). He also was taking 100 mg of progesterone orally which is a marginal dose. October 2nd, he added one Diane pill per week.

All he really needs in my estimation at this point is the 6mg to 8mg estrofem. The oral minoxidil might be important also but that isn't a hormonal med. He shouldn't need oral minoxidil and sulfasalizine, just one or the other from what I have read as long as a person is using topical minoxidil with the sulfasalizine. I think by this point the spironolactone is largely useless as is the dutatsteride but he doesn't know this because he doesn't test so he can't be sure he is hitting targets, perhaps, without an AA.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Janey Elizabeth, What is my Current Protocol:

One to two Climara 100 patches weekly;
One 1.25 tab, Premarin daily
One 10mg tab of medroxyprogesterone acetate
Liberal use of Estrogel on the Scalp and Face
300mg Prometrium, 10 nights monthly
.5 Dutasteride
Oral Minoxidil, 12.5 mg (25ml) daily
Liberal use of minoxidil and always after micro-needling
Ketoconolozole Shampoo, 2%, once to twice every two weeks

Adjunct treatments:
Derma-rolling
light scalp massage
Retin-A
 
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Jonny Craig

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Janey Elizabeth, What is my Current Protocol:

One to two Climara 100 patches weekly;
One 1.25 tab, Premarin daily
One 10mg tab of medroxyprogesterone acetate
Liberal use of Estrogel on the Scalp and Face
300mg Prometrium, 10 nights monthly
.5 Dutasteride
Oral Minoxidil, 12.5 mg (25ml) daily
Liberal use of minoxidil and always after micro-needling
Ketoconolozole Shampoo, 2%, once to twice every two weeks

Adjunct treatments:
Derma-rolling
light scalp massage
Retin-A

How has dutasteride been treating ya? any sides, shedding, etc, to note?
 
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