Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

[Throwaway94]

Great stuff dude. So if I were using an A6 with A6 cartridges, which length and speed setting would be closest to Follica's protocol?

If you say the A6 measures correctly but does not reach the correct depth when used, then possibly 1.0mm = 1.5mm? And speed?

I think it depends. Fewer needles means they'll go deeper as there's less force required to push them through. That's why if you go with a Dr. Pen it's best to stick with the 12 needle cartridges at most

 

[LowHairLine]

...If you say the A6 measures correctly but does not reach the correct depth when used, then possibly 1.0mm = 1.5mm? And speed?

REDUCING A6 DEPTH ERROR
Hard to say - no way to measure and too many variables alter A6 depth...
Below is a list w/ workarounds to reduce damping / depth error:

- SKIN TOUGHNESS: reduce it by keeping skin (very) wet w/ a (sterile) water spray bottle;
- LUBRICATION: lubricate w/ water as per above
(oils = great lubricants, but go systemic w/ needles - are there any "inert" oils?)
- NEEDLE COUNT: as low as possible - 3 to 6 would be ideal, but not seen them yet...;
- NEEDLE SHARPNESS: replace every 5-10min (dr.pen's are cheap);
- NEEDLE DIAMETER: as small as possible (if different diameters available);

Even w/ the above, you are still left with depth guesswork:
to achieve 1mm, do I need 1.3, 1.5 or 1.8mm?

A possible workaround is needle w/ friend's D2 @1mm,
and set A6 depth to replicate the damage (bleeding);

The best long-term solution = D2.

...And speed?

A6 OPTIMAL SPEED
@FOLLICA: speed is not important - hole count is.

@DEPTH ERROR: we could speculate that higher speeds reduce depth error, cause they have higher kinetic energy, thus more easily overcome skin friction -

but this is assuming that skin penetration energy is not speed dependent, a bold statement in itself - not enough data for soild conclusions...

 

[Throwaway94]

If that's true then why isn't 36 needles more effective then 12?

follica say 1600 holes per sq cm is the best, surely 36 needles would reduce the time by a third??

Perhaps because the Dr. Pen motors aren't strong enough to drive 36 needles in properly

 

[rcom440]

KETO & NEEDLING
We really don't want Ketoconalzole topicals systemic -
but w/ needling we might do just that...

I try to avoid it by reducing 2% Keto Shampoo (2%SH) and Cream (2%CR) B/A needling as follows:
-1 day = last 2%CR (end of normal regimen);
-6 h = last 2%SH;
+0 h = soap wash + needling @FOLLICA;
+1 day = 2%SH @5min before rinse;
+2 days = 2%SH @30min;
+3 days = 2%SH @30min + 2%CR straight after (start of normal regimen);

What is your KETO-NEEDLING regimen / recommendation?

I microneedle every 2 weeks with 1.5mm on Friday night and use Nizoral 1% keto every Monday, Wed, and Friday morning. So there are 2 days in between microneedling and nizoral. I keep nizoral around 5 minutes on the scalp before washing it off.
The thing with 1% or 2% ketoconazole shampoo and microneeding is in order for it to really affect your liver you would have to microneedle and then right after that shampoo your scalp with nizoral and leave it for some time. 1% or 2% is very small dosage that is pretty much safe.

 

[John Difool]

1% is dandruff treatment. Hairloss I would consider 2%. Getting liver sides on nizoral you would need to drink the bottle.

 

[rcom440]

1% is dandruff treatment. Hairloss I would consider 2%.

1% is almost as effective as 2%.
There are studies comparing 1% and 2%. The results were very close. Studies should be posted somewhere on HairLossTalk.com forum.

 

[karatekid]

1% is dandruff treatment. Hairloss I would consider 2%. Getting liver sides on nizoral you would need to drink the bottle.

Where do you find 2% bottles? It's always hard to find them, and until I find some source that sell it (in reasonable price) they suddenly run out of stock.

 

[John Difool]

You can get a script from your GP. It's really not that big of a deal.

 

[karatekid]

You can get a script from your GP. It's really not that big of a deal.

I can see only ketozol shampoo (ketoconasole 2%) in the pharmecies in my country, is there a difference between ketozol and nizroal regarding hairloss?

 

[Throwaway94]

I can see only ketozol shampoo (ketoconasole 2%) in the pharmecies in my country, is there a difference between ketozol and nizroal regarding hairloss?

Ketozal is good, are you in Eastern Europe?

 

[karatekid]

Ketozal is good, are you in Eastern Europe?

No, middle east

 

[Throwaway94]

No, middle east

Either way I've tried 3 different 2% ketoconazole shampoos and they're all basically the same.

 

[John Difool]

My next microneedling session I'll go for 2mm 30min using a D2. I plan to use a numbling cream all over my scalp. I will apply ethanol before and minoxidil/Valproic acid right after.

 

[ajax]

Just finished my first session doing it this way... 0.75mm with D2 on full power.

Previously I've tried dermaroller 1mm a couple of times, and last week D2 at 1.25mm on low speed.

I can safely say D2 on full speed at 0.75mm was definitely the most painful!!!

Managed about 25 mins covering all areas multiple times in circular patterns, scalp starting to look pretty damn red now which is good.

I found doing my crown tricky, on close inspection it looks less red than the front and especially towards where my bald spot meets the back of my head, so will try extra hard next time to do this more thoroughly.

Quite glad it's only once every 2 weeks as it was not the nicest thing to do haha!

 

[tomJ]

1% is dandruff treatment. Hairloss I would consider 2%. Getting liver sides on nizoral you would need to drink the bottle.

I get exhausted after shampooing with nizoral/ Keto. Is this my liver or is it zapping my testosterone? Fatigue, brainfog and moody. If you were to look at my face 8 hours after shampooing you would see the major fatigue on my face.....and when I was younger I used it all the time with no issues.

 

[ajax]

I get exhausted after shampooing with nizoral/ Keto. Is this my liver or is it zapping my testosterone? Fatigue, brainfog and moody. If you were to look at my face 8 hours after shampooing you would see the major fatigue on my face.....and when I was younger I used it all the time with no issues.

I mentioned in was it this or another thread about high liver results?

Anyway in this thread someone mentioned not to use it when needling with my liver issue as oral products had been withdrawn due to causing liver issues. Since starting rolling / needling I've dropped it completely and that uncomfortable feeling under my right ribs has vanished... So looks like although I was only using the shampoo, and using it every other day, that it was most likely the cause of my liver problems.

So if I were you I'd drop it too... I've also really struggled with fatigue which the Doctor said could have been as a result of my liver, so I'd say for what ever reason some of us seem more prone to it going systemic and it causing liver issues.

 

[tomJ]

I mentioned in was it this or another thread about high liver results?

Anyway in this thread someone mentioned not to use it when needling with my liver issue as oral products had been withdrawn due to causing liver issues. Since starting rolling / needling I've dropped it completely and that uncomfortable feeling under my right ribs has vanished... So looks like although I was only using the shampoo, and using it every other day, that it was most likely the cause of my liver problems.

So if I were you I'd drop it too... I've also really struggled with fatigue which the Doctor said could have been as a result of my liver, so I'd say for what ever reason some of us seem more prone to it going systemic and it causing liver issues.

Ajax thanks for your response. I thought I was the only one affected like that. Pretty crazy how a little goes systemic and our bodies cant handle it. Sucks

 

[ajax]

Ajax thanks for your response. I thought I was the only one affected like that. Pretty crazy how a little goes systemic and our bodies cant handle it. Sucks

Yeah really odd it seems to do that as it's not really been mentioned before.

Wish I'd realised years ago as have suffered from bad fatigue for about 3 years!

 

[John Difool]

Are you observing this with 1% or 2%?

 

[ajax]

Are you observing this with 1% or 2%?

I'm not sure, but it's Nizoral brand, doesn't say the % on the bottle.