The only ones saying it's a bad thing are the ones who swear it's not just minoxidil. They are going to be very disappointed when they find out that's all it is, and then very happy when they find out that it works just like the Indian study said.
Follica Annual Reports And Accounts April 2017
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The only ones saying it's a bad thing are the ones who swear it's not just minoxidil. They are going to be very disappointed when they find out that's all it is, and then very happy when they find out that it works just like the Indian study said.
thomps1523
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Myself and many many others derma rolled during the community trial 3 years ago and maybe 5 of the over 100 participants saw noticeable results. If you believe all it takes is derma rolling why not start now, and post updates with images? You're obviously interested enough in follica's treatment by reading posts in this thread, so why not get a headstart now with a derma roller?
I already am, and it's working.
I read those threads, and most of the people in them were needling too deep and too hard. That will get you fibrosis, but no follicles. The best thing we can do now is follow this study: http://www.ijtrichology.com/article...lume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;aulast=Dhurat
thomps1523
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Can you show before and after pics? What mm roller are you using? How often, and are you applying minoxidil immediately after? Did you start minoxidil when you started rolling? If you refer to that thread there are several references which explain that anything under 1.5 mm isn't penetrating the right layer of skin to invoke the stem cells needed, and that is the size roller/punch most were using.
I haven't taken pics because I'm trying not to obsess over it, and I only started a month ago. I do have a pic from a few months ago that I might post when I decide to take an after pic, but that won't be for a few months at least. I use a 1.5mm roller once a week, like the study says, and I apply minoxidil immediately after. I started minoxidil when I started rolling, but I've used minoxidil before. Don't believe the broscience that you have to go deep to touch the follicle. That's nonsense, 1.5 mm is plenty deep enough to trigger the production of growth factors. You also only need to do a few passes in each direction until your skin is red, but not bleeding.
thomps1523
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Ok so just to verify, you are claiming to see noticeable benefits from derma rolling for your hairloss after 1 month of rolling? Your hair must cycle really fast... 1.5 mm is about the deepest anyone went, and the size most used, so I'm curious why you're acting like most were going too deep? Bro science is when you say I don't believe this or that, I think this is how it is... there are actual studies in the thread you can reference if you're not convinced, I can assure you it isn't bro science... I don't get how you can come in here and post 300 times in less than a year, and then say you have no proof of your statements, because try not to obsess over your hair.
It's not noticeable by looking, but I can feel less scalp on my crown. Yes, my hair does grow fast. It grows about an inch per month. If you must know I was obsessing over my hair before, and it drove me nuts until I stopped worrying about it at all, and stopped treating it. I lost all my gains, and now I'm trying to get them back, but not taking pictures because that will drive you nuts. You sound like the kind of person who "doesn't get" a lot of things. I'm not surprised, and I don't care. I'm not going to dig through the thread, and make note of how many people were using what size. I know they were almost all bleeding though, which means that either they were doing to too deep or too hard. Either way they were just creating scar tissue.
thomps1523
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I "don't get" a lot of what you say because you go in circles... you say it takes consistent rolling then reference the BBQ guy. You say if you bleed you're going too hard or too deep, but again look at the scabbing on the BBQ guy! I'd love to "get it", but you really will need to decide which direction you're going to go to justify why your rolling experiment is working and 95% of those in the community trial did not... I'm glad you truly believe you're seeing results 1 month into a treatment, it's just extremely hard to believe, sorry!
I only brought the campfire guy up to show that someone has accidentally grown hair from wounding, as the other poster was claiming that no one ever has. It's a freak accident that can't be replicated. You can't draw any conclusions from it except that there is something to wounding.
thomps1523
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No joke man! Good eff! We can agree on 2 things, 1. There is something to wounding, and 2. We don't understand exactly how to make it effective. You're the one stating how frequent it has to happen, and you're the one pretending that you, and your derma roller have figured out the process of making wounding effective.
I could care less if follica uses minoxidil, but I do believe that there is a method to wounding to make it work consistently and effectively, and I believe that is what follica's treatment will provide.
I'm done talking about this, if people want to see how successful derma rolling has been for people outside of the dhurat study just go check out the locked derma rolling thread. If anyone wants to dispute it with their own experience, pics or it didn't happen!
In the right circumstances a single instance of superficial wounding does produce some regrowth without drugs. Follica does know what they are talking about.
But wounding alone does not produce very much under normal conditions. Nowhere near enough to sell a commercial regrowth product.
I believe minoxidil could boost the regrowth somewhat. But again, probably not enough to make it commercially viable. I'm convinced Follica is using more than minoxidil.
I didn't say I figured anything out, so stop putting words in my mouth. I said the Study that I posted a link to is the best wounding protocol we can follow at the moment. Hopefully Follica has figured out a better way to do it, but since their projected results are the same as the results from the Indian study, don't count on it. I trust the findings of a scientific trial more than posts on an internet forum by random joes. I'm sure you would too, but dermarolling didn't work for you, so you want to believe that Follica found some magic compound that grows hair better than minoxidil. Remember, they aren't going to be using any compounds that aren't already FDA approved. Why has no one else has noticed that this already approved magic compound grows hair?
Why should I or anyone else post pics? You would just say it had nothing to do with dermarolling, and you could very well be right. Anecdotal evidence on an internet forum is next to worthless.
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Yeah I think the report is mistaken. Perhaps they will publish their 2008 undisclosed results though.
I don't care either that it will be solely TCP + minoxidil. Like I said the more money pumped in the market, the better.
This won't do wonders but it's obvious that adding some form of wounding to minoxidil is better than minoxidil alone. Sometimes doing something better than what is currently on the market is enough to gain profit.
Frankly, Follica their business model is pretty smart imo. It's about making money first and foremost ,let's not forget about that.
Their goal is to seek out a wider population. People who ain't on treatments at the moment. Connect with them more.
Anyway.. Tranny regimens and hair transplants will still reign king until some real innovation hits the market.
God Dr. Tsuji can make this innovation happen short term, nobody else.
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Xaser94
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Yeah I think the report is mistaken. Perhaps they will publish their 2008 undisclosed results though.
I don't care either that it will be solely TCP + minoxidil. Like I said the more money pumped in the market, the better.
This won't do wonders but it's obvious that adding some form of wounding to minoxidil is better than minoxidil alone. Sometimes doing something just a better than what is currently on the market is enough to gain profit.
Frankly, Follica their business model is pretty smart imo. It's about making money first and foremost ,let's not forget about that.
Their goal is to seek out a wider population. People who ain't on treatments at the moment. Connect with them more.
Anyway.. Tranny regimens and hair transplants will still reign king until some real innovation hits the market.
God Dr. Tsuji can make this innovation happen short term, nobody else.
Maybe, but based on the fact Daphne Zohar retweeted the article that mentions they will be posting trial results without correcting it makes me think otherwise. Not to mention @DoctorHouse saying, "He said they are going to publish some data on their website soon. How soon I don't know," referring to the meeting with Follica at AAD 2017 (https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-presentation-at-the-2017-aad-meeting.104138/). Along with this article, Im leaning more towards them publishing results of a trial that took place before the pivotal trial. If their results are close to the results in the Indian study I would be cured. Or would at least bridge me to when Tsuji's treatment may be available on a wider scale.
So if derma rolling + minoxidil works four times better than minoxidil alone as per a 2013 study, why would Follica invest oodles of money and effort into proving efficacy for a method that anyone can do without Follica? Why would Cotsarelis et al be so hush-hush on the QT surrounding what you say will merely be a copycat do-over of the Dhurat study? Doesn't sound like a solid business plan to me, but then again, anything proven to be better than minoxidil alone would surely be a moneymaker with FDA approval for labelling and claims to efficacy. It could be as simple as you say, Swoop.
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Xaser94
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To be fair, I dont think alot of ppl would dermaroll and use minoxidil on their own and have success. I think the fact that many forum members have tried to do it and still failed can attest to why Follica may think the general populous wont have success with minoxidil and dermarolling on their own. After this new article about Dr.Rox, and his innovations with lasers, im thinking maybe the key is in the specific dermabrasion technique. They have created their own propriety dermabrasion device and maybe thats the secret pudding. I cant see why they just dont use a dermabrasion device already on the market tbh if it wasnt. But either way even if the device is generic, a procedure with some manner of guarantee of regrowth is still worth investment, especially when their model isnt going to stay static. They will continue to test new drugs and compounds to further the effect of hair growth.The initial release is just the first iteration. As more hair growth compounds pass fda trials we can be sure they will also be testing those as well (Samumed, Follicum, etc). Once they get their product out they can start making money, and continue to test new compounds while making money.
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Well I'm not 100% sure on the TCP technique. It could be dermabrasion also. I only find dermarolling a bit more likely, since it's more practical.
I just fail to see how one would go with dermabrasion in diffused areas. I have seen their patent filings with the dermabrasion and have seen how dermabrasion works in general on other areas of the skin.
If it's dermabrasion like in the picture above it simply means you will have to go bald in that area. Now it better work damn f*cking good if that needs to be done, right? Are you going to step into your office with your fresh scraped head crust and bandage?
If you can give me an answer to this practical problem I might be inclined to believe it will be dermabrasion instead of microneedling.
I'm just 100% sure on the drug, that it's going to be minoxidil. And yes it could be as simple as the R. Dhurat study. I mean you ask yourself why would people go for the procedure if they can do it at home? Well you might do it at home, I might do it at home, but remember that many people don't think this way.
Do you know that many women go to beauticians where they get simple microneedle therapy on their face with a nice cream afterwards? They pay top dollar for something simple like this.
Do you know that for instance in Japan, fractional laser therapy + growth factors or microneedling + growth factors is sold by physicians. For instance http://www.harg.org/, even against exorbitant prices for hair growth?
Yet people go in for the therapy? They could do it themselves.
Etc. So you tell me why do people pay for this?
Great post, Xaser94. I think youre right, Rox is a renowned pioneer in the field of laser tech, and I think there really is something to dermabrasion contributing to creation of new HF. Four times better than minoxidil alone? Whoever is able to claim this new benchmark for efficacy, and with FDA-approved labelling, will surely make money. And with new compounds trialled down the road, it surely has to be a good business plan with topical jakinibs and seti in the skunkworks.