First System - Swiss Lace With Tape/Glue Attachment Teething Issues

[mambovipi]

Hey guys, took the plunge and ordered my first system. It's been around a month and been having some issues I was hoping to get some help/advice with.

System: Complete Swiss Lace with light density
Attachment: Walkers Front Lace (blue tape) around the sides and back and ghost bond platinum at the front
Style: Exposed Front Hairline (The system looks AMAZING with the hairline exposed therefore I want to try and maintain that look. I know it will take more work but just need a solution that sustainable.)

So I REALLY like the tape. It just works. It holds perfectly (for me) and doesn't give me any issues. I've also tried walkers ultra-hold (yellow whitish one) which works well as well. I would like to keep the system on for two weeks at a time but happy to re-do the front as often as necessary (within reason).

So the issue I am having is with the front and the glue. The walkers glue wasn't right for me but Ghost Bond Platinum seems to work better. The first re-install I thought it best to do at a salon so did but the second one did myself.

Here are the issues: (the back half is on perfectly at this stage with tape and only the front left to contend with)

1) After reading A LOT about walkers sport scalp protector, I got hold of some and used it at the salon but once the front went down it formed a white layer on the lace. The stylist managed to get out what she could but was a still visible. She said due to the nature of the residue on the lace it def wasn't the glue therefore could only be the scalp protector. I was wondering has anyone else experienced this issue and if so what is the solution?

2) After that nightmare with the sport I went back to the normal scalp protector when I did the re-install myself. When applying the glue I put VERY thin layers and put 3 layers. I used a hair dryer and waited for each layer to turn transparent. After the final layer, I started cleaning up the mess I made while the glue was drying which took around 5 mins and then I applied a hair dryer to the glue for around 1 min.
(One of the issues I've previously had with the front (doing touch-ups) was creases so I thought a good way of countering that would be to use positioning spray and then just press down firmly. This would ensure nowhere got stuck and could develop creases.)
Therefore just before putting down the front I added generous amounts of positioning spray and dropped the front and pushed down with a towel. I should add I pushed down the front quite hard with a towel at this stage. Once I removed the towel the glue had seeped through the lace and into the hair. Was a f'ing nightmare to say the least. Also all along the front edge was like this glue residue build-up. I thought, let me see how it cures tomorrow and was a mess and so took the system off again. I am now waiting for some walkers rapid release to come to soak the front which is baked in glue before trying again.

My proposed solution to all this:
1) I am not sure about the scalp protector so would appreciate any help on that front. (I have the dab on and the brush one of these)
2) I REALLY want to try and minimise the use of glue but understand it's the best for an exposed hairline.
After reading comments from others I have got hold of some no shine contour strips and some lace front thin contour strips. My next plan of action is to tape the front (using no-shine) but leave 1cm ish from the front and apply just glue there. Read about this solution on here I think. The key here is the tape will hold the front in place and therefore should be no tension on the part that's glued down. My understanding is the glue is JUST used to hide the front hairline and not hold anything in this case. My biggest doubt is I still don't understand why did the glue seep all the way through the last time I did this? Did I press too hard? Did I not wait long enough? Was it the positioning spray?
The lace front thin strips I have I understand can be used on their own in the front (and will try this in the future) but I'm not sure how feasible it is to line them up to the EXACT edge of the system every time? Also how would a touch-up work for this solution?

If you have read this far then I'm impressed & any help is GREATLY appreciated!

THANK YOU!!

 

[Redeye Ninja]

I don't use glue with lace bases as I don't have an exposed hairline so I can't help you with that part.

But, I do use Walker max hold sport scalp protector.
Tapes I use are Walker extenda bond plus(tape with little holes in it).

With the scalp protector you should wait 10-15 mins till it's dry to the touch before applying the hair system.

 

[mambovipi]

I don't use glue with lace bases as I don't have an exposed hairline so I can't help you with that part.

But, I do use Walker max hold sport scalp protector.
Tapes I use are Walker extenda bond plus(tape with little holes in it).

With the scalp protector you should wait 10-15 mins till it's dry to the touch before applying the hair system.

Didn't know it had to be dry to touch before continuing. Thank you!

 

[TooBad]

Didn't know it had to be dry to touch before continuing. Thank you!

It expressly states it on the bottle. Not trying to pick a fight, but you have time to write those mega paragraphs, but no time to read the instructions on the product? And you wonder why you're having issues?

 

[Noah]

Hi Mambovipi

First, congratulations on taking the plunge. It's great to hear that the result looks so good. I think the problems you are experiencing just need little tweaks to sort them out.

With scalp protector I think the first question is whether you really need it at all. Salons tend to put it on as a matter of course, but if you are maintaining your unit with reasonable frequency (say every 10-14 days) you probably don't need it unless either you have a very sweaty lifestyle or you have very sensitive easily irritated skin. Maybe try an attachment without it and see how you get on.

You sound like you are basically doing all the right things in relation to the gluing process - letting each layer dry completely, and using a spritz of positioning spray to give you a few extra seconds. I notice you say "generous amounts" of positioning spray though, and I think that might be the answer. The positioning spray does slightly re-liquefy the surface of the glue, so you only need a fine mist of it. My guess is that the combination of the three layers of glue and the abundant spray just caused too much glue to become liquid, and migrate into the mesh of your system. Going forward I would try 2 layers of glue (even 1 layer might be OK if you have tape behind it taking all the strain). And invest in a bottle with a very fine spray nozzle (you can get them in DIY and gardening stores), and use that to put a fine mist on the glue before you bring down the hairline (I actually use neat 99% isopropyl alcohol rather than a proprietary position spray). See if that sorts out your problem.

Best of luck

Noah

 

[mambovipi]

It expressly states it on the bottle. Not trying to pick a fight, but you have time to write those mega paragraphs, but no time to read the instructions on the product? And you wonder why you're having issues?

fair play, lesson learnt, I'll be more careful

 

[mambovipi]

First, congratulations on taking the plunge. It's great to hear that the result looks so good. I think the problems you are experiencing just need little tweaks to sort them out.

Cheers & yeah I agree, the difference in look is just insane and solution so simple just needs a little tweaking to perfect, like anything new in life I guess!

With scalp protector I think the first question is whether you really need it at all. Salons tend to put it on as a matter of course, but if you are maintaining your unit with reasonable frequency (say every 10-14 days) you probably don't need it unless either you have a very sweaty lifestyle or you have very sensitive easily irritated skin. Maybe try an attachment without it and see how you get on.

My skin is def more on the oily side therefore I think this stuff helps but I'm obv not using it correctly. If, after trying it again, I still get the same issues I will def try an attachment without it.

My guess is that the combination of the three layers of glue and the abundant spray just caused too much glue to become liquid, and migrate into the mesh of your system.

This makes a lot of sense, thanks!

Going forward I would try 2 layers of glue (even 1 layer might be OK if you have tape behind it taking all the strain)

I would rather have to do a touch-up than deal with glue seeping so will def give one layer a try. Makes sense to me. thanks.

And invest in a bottle with a very fine spray nozzle (you can get them in DIY and gardening stores), and use that to put a fine mist on the glue before you bring down the hairline (I actually use neat 99% isopropyl alcohol rather than a proprietary position spray). See if that sorts out your problem.

With me only needing to glue one cm or so of the hairline do you think this stuff is really necessary or just overcomplicating it and potentially causing issues? I've watched MANY videos on youtube and one of them says it's not really permanent until you press hard.

Cheers for that thorough reply, lots of useful tips!

 

[Noah]

With me only needing to glue one cm or so of the hairline do you think this stuff is really necessary or just overcomplicating it and potentially causing issues? I've watched MANY videos on youtube and one of them says it's not really permanent until you press hard.


Are you going to attach the front with tape first, and then attach the 1cm of unattached lace as a separate task? I think that would be the easiest approach. If so, I would use a spritz of alcohol for the first part - attaching the tape - but you can probably do without it for the second part - the gluing of the 1 cm. The primary purpose of the alcohol is to give you some ability to move the hairpiece into perfect position - with no gaps of overlaps at the edges - and to smooth out any wrinkles. By the time you have done the tape attachment those issues should have been sorted out.

You will need some spring clips to pull the front 1 cm of unattached lace back and clipping the hair out of the way while you apply the glue and wait for it to dry. Then (assuming you are not using alcohol at this point) start from the centre of the hairline and apply it to the glue, and gradually work outwards to the temples, releasing the clipped-back lace as you go.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[AxC123]

Agree with what Noah said above. As for the thins, you may like or prefer that tape option once you try it out, I apply the tape so that it extends a bit outside lace, then cut it along the lace with clean and shard scissors before removing the backing paper.

 

[mambovipi]

Are you going to attach the front with tape first, and then attach the 1cm of unattached lace as a separate task? I think that would be the easiest approach. If so, I would use a spritz of alcohol for the first part - attaching the tape - but you can probably do without it for the second part - the gluing of the 1 cm. The primary purpose of the alcohol is to give you some ability to move the hairpiece into perfect position - with no gaps of overlaps at the edges - and to smooth out any wrinkles. By the time you have done the tape attachment those issues should have been sorted out.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines as you. I'm ALWAYS looking for the simplest and easiest approach so yes will do exactly what you said and use the positioning spray just for the tape part and to keep the lace reasonably taught to avoid creases!

You will need some spring clips to pull the front 1 cm of unattached lace back and clipping the hair out of the way while you apply the glue and wait for it to dry. Then (assuming you are not using alcohol at this point) start from the centre of the hairline and apply it to the glue, and gradually work outwards to the temples, releasing the clipped-back lace as you go.

For the last few days I've been debating about the best way to do this. Whether to start with the centre or the sides to avoid creases. Really appreciate these tips, I have the clips. I am planning on gluing the whole (1cm) area at the front then will put it down from the centre outwards. I guess the key here is not to put too much tension such that there is a lot of tension on the lace but enough to ensure no creases.

Let us know how you get on.

Def, cheers for all the help mate! My solvent should be arriving today so I can finally get all the glue out and give it all another shot!

Agree with what Noah said above. As for the thins, you may like or prefer that tape option once you try it out, I apply the tape so that it extends a bit outside lace, then cut it along the lace with clean and shard scissors before removing the backing paper.

I was thinking about this but a little hesitant as didn't want to make any mistakes cutting some hair or the base. I guess taking things VERY slowly is the solution here. I will consider this for the next time as do want to try this thin tape at some point. I was thinking it could just go on the very front and just overlap the no shine strips slightly behind. The one Q I do have is how would you do a touch-up on this approach? With one layer of glue on the very last cm (the next thing I am going to try) it should be easy enough to touch-up the very front. Even if I have to do it daily it (should be) very little work.

Cheers for all the help guys!

 

[mambovipi]

Hey guys, I have run into an issue on the first step. I soaked the front half in rapid release for 4 hours (poured into a glass container with the lace submerged in the stuff) and it got rid of the glue on the hair pretty good but not the glue on the lace. Every hour I took it out and used a little dish soap to try and get rid of the glue. There are patches where it's just stuck and I can't move it with my fingers. I didn't really notice any difference between hour 2 and 4 of the soak. I did check the instructions on the bottle and it doesn't give any indications of max soak time but I wasn't sure how long was safe so for now have taken it out and washed it with shampoo while I figure out what to do next. I have both C-22 and rapid release but only used the rapid release today. From my limited understanding the rapid release is a much stronger version of C-22 but have gone back to my supplier as well to ask for some help. Just thought I'd see what others suggest. Looks like I really made a mess with the last install!

 

[AxC123]

The one Q I do have is how would you do a touch-up on this approach? With one layer of glue on the very last cm (the next thing I am going to try) it should be easy enough to touch-up the very front. Even if I have to do it daily it (should be) very little work.

To fix the hairline with thins tape, i use same process as with glue. I clean and dab using 99 alcohol using qtip or cotton ball. Then lift , use clips, then apply glue ( i use ultra hold) then attach. Using another stronger tape and having the thin over that just for 1 cm is a good idea..Thin tape are not long lasting ...for me they last 5 days max and i need to clean and touch up hairline prior detaching as i wear exposed and have grey (light color) hair ...so a dirty hairline shows more than darker hair.

 

[mambovipi]

Hey guys, I have run into an issue on the first step. I soaked the front half in rapid release for 4 hours (poured into a glass container with the lace submerged in the stuff) and it got rid of the glue on the hair pretty good but not the glue on the lace. Every hour I took it out and used a little dish soap to try and get rid of the glue. There are patches where it's just stuck and I can't move it with my fingers. I didn't really notice any difference between hour 2 and 4 of the soak. I did check the instructions on the bottle and it doesn't give any indications of max soak time but I wasn't sure how long was safe so for now have taken it out and washed it with shampoo while I figure out what to do next. I have both C-22 and rapid release but only used the rapid release today. From my limited understanding the rapid release is a much stronger version of C-22 but have gone back to my supplier as well to ask for some help. Just thought I'd see what others suggest. Looks like I really made a mess with the last install!

Managed to fix this issue. Was a very simple solution. Just used some 99% alcohol in a spray bottle and my water dental flosser on a low setting with very hot water. Was very focused on the problem areas. It looks pretty much brand new now. Should have really just done that from the beginning, the glue just came off fast! God knows what all these extremely strong smelling solvents are doing to the hair of the system and my own skin! Not to mention the cost of all these products. Alcohol seems to be the lesser of all evils. I would have thought the very best solution would just be to fill the flosser with alcohol but not sure if that would cause issues with it plus it's an integral part of keeping my teeth in top condition so might get a cheap Chinese one to try in the future although I wouldn't say is necessary.

To fix the hairline with thins tape, i use same process as with glue. I clean and dab using 99 alcohol using qtip or cotton ball. Then lift , use clips, then apply glue ( i use ultra hold) then attach. Using another stronger tape and having the thin over that just for 1 cm is a good idea..Thin tape are not long lasting ...for me they last 5 days max and i need to clean and touch up hairline prior detaching as i wear exposed and have grey (light color) hair ...so a dirty hairline shows more than darker hair.

Ah, that makes more sense. For the first touchup you just use glue instead of f'ing with the tapes again while it's on. Yeah this is also a really good idea, thanks man, makes sense. I see youtube vids of people applying tapes while the system is on. The tapes (for me anyway) are fiddly enough when it's on the manikin, can't imagine trying to put them on accurately with the system on my head!

 

[AxC123]

Managed to fix this issue. Was a very simple solution. Just used some 99% alcohol in a spray bottle and my water dental flosser on a low setting with very hot water. Was very focused on the problem areas. It looks pretty much brand new now. Should have really just done that from the beginning, the glue just came off fast! God knows what all these extremely strong smelling solvents are doing to the hair of the system and my own skin! Not to mention the cost of all these products. Alcohol seems to be the lesser of all evils. I would have thought the very best solution would just be to fill the flosser with alcohol but not sure if that would cause issues with it plus it's an integral part of keeping my teeth in top condition so might get a cheap Chinese one to try in the future although I wouldn't say is necessary.


Ah, that makes more sense. For the first touchup you just use glue instead of f'ing with the tapes again while it's on. Yeah this is also a really good idea, thanks man, makes sense. I see youtube vids of people applying tapes while the system is on. The tapes (for me anyway) are fiddly enough when it's on the manikin, can't imagine trying to put them on accurately with the system on my head!

after initial install with tape, for touch up, I use glue ( not tape) .. for cleaning glue of lace, this forum has lots of topic and tips to offer using the search option. I thought you you aware of the waterpick trick... https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...esidue-out-of-lace-holes.132933/#post-1998544 and yes 99alcohool is one of the best cleaning product which isn't proprietary or a marketing hype. also for stuborn glues, I use googone, readily available in hardware stores, but it is very oily, so need to use dishsoap after...

 

[mambovipi]

after initial install with tape, for touch up, I use glue ( not tape) .. for cleaning glue of lace, this forum has lots of topic and tips to offer using the search option. I thought you you aware of the waterpick trick... https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...esidue-out-of-lace-holes.132933/#post-1998544 and yes 99alcohool is one of the best cleaning product which isn't proprietary or a marketing hype. also for stuborn glues, I use googone, readily available in hardware stores, but it is very oily, so need to use dishsoap after...

nah, I wasn't aware of the trick with the water flosser. I actually watched some hairdirect youtube video of someone using some big machine and was thinking my flosser does that! Cheers for the tip with the search function, the odds are 90% of the questions I have, have been asked before so I will use it more.

 

[mambovipi]

Let us know how you get on.

mate, looks amazing. MUCH easier than the previous way of gluing the whole front down. I had a few "adventures" getting it on correctly but my taping skills are infinitely better now! ha! Once on, with the front, I did exactly what you said and started from the middle and worked out and it worked a treat! I did two very very very thin layers though. Thank you!!

One small question:
I used an eyeliner to mark the lace and my head for positioning. The mark comes off my head very easily by just rubbing it but unfortunately the front mark has stayed on the lace and is visible. I tried rubbing it off and tried water and alcohol but it wouldn't come off. I unfortunately then forgot about it before gluing down the front (as took a break before gluing) and it's visible but at this stage I don't care too much at the moment with all the hassle I've had. It will do. But if there are any useful tips on how to get rid of it, then would be much appreciated as always!

 

[Noah]

That's good news MV.

1). I think the eyeliner mark should come off with washing-up liquid (dish soap, if you speak American) and water. That stuff is quite greasy, so you might have to wash it a couple of times. Obviously, be gentle. I achieve the same effect by just digging my thumbnail into my forehead to mark where the hairline should be. It leaves a little indentation, which lasts just long enough to give me time to apply the glue, and then it disappears.

2). I find the best thing to deliver lace release (I actually just use neat 99% isopropyl alcohol) is a squeezable bottle with a long narrow nozzle. You can poke the nozzle through the hair, and that way you can target the liquid in the right quantity exactly where it needs to go - over your adhesive. Something like this:

 

[mambovipi]

That's good news MV.

1). I think the eyeliner mark should come off with washing-up liquid (dish soap, if you speak American) and water. That stuff is quite greasy, so you might have to wash it a couple of times. Obviously, be gentle. I achieve the same effect by just digging my thumbnail into my forehead to mark where the hairline should be. It leaves a little indentation, which lasts just long enough to give me time to apply the glue, and then it disappears.

2). I find the best thing to deliver lace release (I actually just use neat 99% isopropyl alcohol) is a squeezable bottle with a long narrow nozzle. You can poke the nozzle through the hair, and that way you can target the liquid in the right quantity exactly where it needs to go - over your adhesive. Something like this:

View attachment 171897

Cheers bro! Your tips were very valuable! Really appreciate all the help.

1) When/IF I need to do a touch-up I will try washing-up liquid to get the mark off. Thanks! Luckily I'm fluent in 'American' after years of watching Hollywood! The eye liner comes off SO EASILY from the skin by just rubbing and the mark on the lace I couldn't get off.
For attachment I really like placing the system on my head then just having two marks on the lace and my head. I then remove all the backing tape and just match the dots and lay it down. Works well for me!

I think I will stop buying lace release and just use pure alcohol. Would you recommend 99% or a bit lower % just for deactivating the glue and tape for detachment? For cleaning 99% seems optimal.

2) This looks ideal, thanks man. I've been watching a lot of hair direct vids and they recommend an ear washing syringe. It's a kind of rubber thing which is very very cheap so I've ordered one. Similar to your contraption.
For the front I've found the best is to dab some cotton wool and get one edge free then work with cotton buds dipped in alcohol (I think you guys call them q tips) which allows a high degree of precision on how much of the front lace I am releasing. I figure on a touchup I would only ever need to release around 5-10mm so with a bit of patience it allows me to do that. Another HairDirect tip that one!

I do have another question for you. I want to try acrylic & silicone glue. If it gives me a longer hold then I don't see why not. My primary goal is an exposed hairline with min maintenance. The ghost bond is okay but find myself having to do touchups often. It doesn't take long tbf but would be nice to just forget about it. What are you thoughts on the following products:
1) https://walkertapeco.com/product/extreme-hold/ (Silicone based)
2 )https://walkertapeco.com/product/ultra-hold/ (Acrylic based)
Do these glues deactivate with alcohol just like the water based ones? Why do most people favour the water based ones?

Really appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions!

Cheers!

 

[cottonReville]

Don't use positioning spray/iso alcohol with white glue. Noah said it above, but I think even misting it will cause it to (potentially) liquify more than you'd like.

Instead apply the glue, dry it, & bring down your front gently. As long as you don't press down hard, it won't stick tightly and you can manipulate your piece into the position you want, then apply pressure, with a dry towel, comb, whatever - to make it bond.

I recently got into using Ghostbond so I don't know its in and outs, particularily w lace.

With lace I did like 2 two coats (Ghostbond XL) & the piece fell off while I was asleep.

 

[cottonReville]

That's good news MV.

1). I think the eyeliner mark should come off with washing-up liquid (dish soap, if you speak American) and water. That stuff is quite greasy, so you might have to wash it a couple of times. Obviously, be gentle. I achieve the same effect by just digging my thumbnail into my forehead to mark where the hairline should be. It leaves a little indentation, which lasts just long enough to give me time to apply the glue, and then it disappears.

2). I find the best thing to deliver lace release (I actually just use neat 99% isopropyl alcohol) is a squeezable bottle with a long narrow nozzle. You can poke the nozzle through the hair, and that way you can target the liquid in the right quantity exactly where it needs to go - over your adhesive. Something like this:

View attachment 171897

I thought washing-up liquid meant shower gel???