Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Solxama]

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nda-messed-up-need-advice.128404/post-1940232https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nda-messed-up-need-advice.128404/post-1940232

9/1/21 Last time I checked my T levels and my DHT levels. (This is the blood test where my DHT came back to the baseline). Take under consideration that I am underweight as well. So, a lot of factors are contributing to my hormonal changes. I started treating as well my severe vitamin D deficiency.
Thanks for responding.

Vitamin D is very important, I also had low levels that made me feel crap, so I stared supplementing it last year, currently I'm on 5000-6000IU a day and my level the last time I checked was 77,50 ng/ml, which is considered high. In March of this year I had Covid, and I attribute my high Vitamin D and other supplementation for it being a very mild case despite me having asthma. It was so mild I thought it was allergies at first, until chest pains prompted me to self-isolate, and I upped my Vitamin D dose to 10000IU during that time. Although I stayed in isolation for over 10 days, I felt better just after a week. A antibody test I took after this period confirmed it was in fact Covid, two months later I took another one that also came back positive, so I'm 100% sure. I know it's off-topic, but I'm telling you this experience of mine as evidence of how important Vitamin D is, especially during Covid.

Anyway, I went to do another antibody test today before I leave to the UK, to know how my immunity stands as I'm not planning on getting the Vax until my natural immunity weakens to the point antibodies cannot be found, and I used the opportunity to also do a Liver Functions test. It turns out my liver is in perfect health, which means that everything looks good to go for my new regimen, which I aim to start before the end of the month.

 

[GRme11]

Vitamin D is very important, I also had low levels that made me feel crap, so I stared supplementing it last year, currently I'm on 5000-6000IU a day and my level the last time I checked was 77,50 ng/ml, which is considered high. In March of this year I had Covid, and I attribute my high Vitamin D and other supplementation for it being a very mild case despite me having asthma. It was so mild I thought it was allergies at first, until chest pains prompted me to self-isolate, and I upped my Vitamin D dose to 10000IU during that time. Although I stayed in isolation for over 10 days, I felt better just after a week. A antibody test I took after this period confirmed it was in fact Covid, two months later I took another one that also came back positive, so I'm 100% sure. I know it's off-topic, but I'm telling you this experience of mine as evidence of how important Vitamin D is, especially during Covid.

Anyway, I went to do another antibody test today before I leave to the UK, to know how my immunity stands as I'm not planning on getting the Vax until my natural immunity weakens to the point antibodies cannot be found, and I used the opportunity to also do a Liver Functions test. It turns out my liver is in perfect health, which means that everything looks good to go for my new regimen, which I aim to start before the end of the month.

Thanks for responding and thanks for describing your situation. Yes, vitamin D it’s very important and I agree with you. Found many studies regarding hair loss and telogen effluvium situations. Glad that your liver is totally fine and you do fine after COVID. Jump into your treatment as soon as possible and don’t give up the fight!

 

[Norwoody]

Your T is basically average, so I would advise against jumping to dutasteride, especially considering your issues are hairline recession. Dutasteride has empirically been known to be associated with hairline shedding, at least in some cases. I suspect that higher testosterone individuals, perhaps even moderate, are more susceptible. This is just conjecture, but I think that those who see hairline improvements on dutasteride may already have low T to begin with (or high E). There may be some particular individual genetic receptor sensitivity in those areas as well. I'm not saying you should never try dutasteride, but I would look into other things like topical antiandrogens, oral minoxidil, other needling methods, etc. before going down the dutasteride route.

 

[Solxama]

Your T is basically average, so I would advise against jumping to dutasteride, especially considering your issues are hairline recession. Dutasteride has empirically been known to be associated with hairline shedding, at least in some cases. I suspect that higher testosterone individuals, perhaps even moderate, are more susceptible. This is just conjecture, but I think that those who see hairline improvements on dutasteride may already have low T to begin with (or high E). There may be some particular individual genetic receptor sensitivity in those areas as well. I'm not saying you should never try dutasteride, but I would look into other things like topical antiandrogens, oral minoxidil, other needling methods, etc. before going down the dutasteride route.

I know this reply is not aimed at me, but I'll reply since taking what you wrote in account, it looks it's like a good decision that I went with Finasteride, as my T levels are mid-high range, and my E2 is average for a male. I was considering Duta for my first 5-ARI, but Fina won me over with how easy it is to obtain in a legit way, and the low price of it in my country.

 

[Norwoody]

Good I went with Finasteride then, as my T levels are mid-high range, and my E2 is average for a male. I was considering Duta for my first 5-ARI, but Fina won me over with how easy it is to obtain in a legit way, and the low price of it in my country.

Plus, if you ever have to get off of it it'll clear your system much, much faster than dutasteride.

 

[Norwoody]

Kevin Mann is very much right when he says not to throw the kitchen sink at things. One step at a time if possible.

 

[Solxama]

Plus, if you ever have to get off of it it'll clear your system much, much faster than dutasteride.

That's good to know, but I hope the need to get off it never happens, as if I hopefully get my hair back with HRT, I will need something to maintain it with. So it's going to be either Fina long term, or HRT cycles if that fails. Anyway, since I'm mentioning this, during the last week my thoughts about what I'll do in the worse case scenario have changed a bit, let's just say that if Fina or HRT cycles fail with maintaining my potential future gains, I will most likely stay on HRT for life, and maybe get gyno surgery at some point in the future. I may not want to be a girl and I don't identify as Trans, but I have to admit balding is straight up dysphoric for me, even with my spiritual beliefs and practices it gets to me.

 

[GRme11]

Your T is basically average, so I would advise against jumping to dutasteride, especially considering your issues are hairline recession. Dutasteride has empirically been known to be associated with hairline shedding, at least in some cases. I suspect that higher testosterone individuals, perhaps even moderate, are more susceptible. This is just conjecture, but I think that those who see hairline improvements on dutasteride may already have low T to begin with (or high E). There may be some particular individual genetic receptor sensitivity in those areas as well. I'm not saying you should never try dutasteride, but I would look into other things like topical antiandrogens, oral minoxidil, other needling methods, etc. before going down the dutasteride route.

My T is actually lowered though:
1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):

Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL

2) Latest January 2021:

Total Testosterone:495 ng/dL (N.V:249-836)
DHT: 0.55 ng/mL (N.V:0.30-0.90) which is: 550 pg/mL(Back to my Baseline Levels)
(Levels of T were changing of course everytime because of hormonal fluctuations, but they never jumped into the baseline ones.)

I really can't explain this. With lowered T levels, and out of sudden producing the same DHT levels again… (Hormonal fluctuations and hormones overall, are a great puzzle). This is why I performed the TrichoTest (May 2021) while being into my treatments, so I would be able to define the validity of it, and it all came as I expected. 5AR1 activity was normal, so I guess that 5AR1 still leading to DHT. On the other hand, 5AR2 activity was still high (!), despite being into Oral+Topical Finasteride. My SULT1A1 levels, for example, are good, and this makes sense because Minoxidil was my first treatment(August 2018), and I responded so well. I could not believe it. I am searching so much and everything, if you read my posts, correlates with each other. Everything makes a bit of sense. I am aware of scalp T spike, so surely if I start Dutasteride, I will use something AntiAndrogenic. I am leading more towards 17α-Estradiol/Alfatradiol because I need a boost in the aromatase activity, despite the ERα. Also, if aromatase is being induced topically by 17α, then maybe the excess scalp T will convert into "Estrogen" topically as well (Just a theory of mine-Stupid one or whatever). In either case, I think something estrogenic is a must and comes hand in hand when using Finasteride or Dutasteride. Just like the combo of Minoxidil plus Finasteride. Also, scalp T increase is an extra reason to start applying it either topical or either taking it orally, but just like once a week combined with the other treatments. Thanks for responding, as always.

 

[Norwoody]

If it weren't for your T dropping like that then I might suggest reflex hyper. Is the brand of finasteride you use reliable? Maybe you could start with low doses of dutasteride, maybe twice a week at first for a few months then get tested again.

 

[GRme11]

If it weren't for your T dropping like that then I might suggest reflex hyper. Is the brand of finasteride you use reliable? Maybe you could start with low doses of dutasteride, maybe twice a week at first for a few months then get tested again.

Yes, I thought of the reflex hyper theory as well. Although, I didn't notice any signs of it like acne, heavy shedding, etc. (thankfully-I could be wrong though regarding shedding). Hormones are showing indeed something like reflex hyperandrogenicity, leading more towards to <<resistance>>. I am buying Propecia from a legit good local pharmacy, not a possibility being fake or whatever. Also, we can see that my DHT levels dropped as they should, so I guess legitimacy is not a problem here. I guess I don't have any other choice from introducing dutasteride, but I am thinking, If I start using dutasteride so early, what will be my options later on? I am only 21. I had already bought dutasteride when I started Propecia because I knew that I would not have a lot of time with such aggressive baldness from 16. I knew that sooner or later, I would consider dutasteride no matter what, but I didn't expect to be as soon as now.. Thanks for responding.

 

[Solxama]

If I were you @GRme11 , I would go for Estradiol if Duta does not help you, (if you are ready to cope with the side effects of course). I started balding at 17, so I was only a year older then you. At 22 I started using natural methods to stop my hair loss, but they only slowed it down, so now pharmaceuticals and a aggressive regimen is all I have left. With genes like ours, we need much stronger regimens then most people. Trust me, if you do nothing now you will regret it later in your life, like I do nearly every day. All the people who say to just cope with balding are either hyper masculine men who just don't care, people with strongly internalized gender role behaviors and expectations , or stuck up snobs and assholes.

 

[GRme11]

If I were you @GRme11 , I would go for Estradiol if Duta does not help you, (if you are ready to cope with the side effects of course). I started balding at 17, so I was only a year older then you. At 22 I started using natural methods to stop my hair loss, but they only slowed it down, so now pharmaceuticals and a aggressive regimen is all I have left. With genes like ours, we need much stronger regimens then most people. Trust me, if you do nothing now you will regret it later in your life, like I do nearly every day. All the people who say to just cope with balding are either hyper masculine men who just don't care, people with strongly internalized gender role behaviors and expectations , or stuck up snobs and assholes.

I am not coping or whatever. I know that having such aggressive baldness and so soon means stronger genes as well. For me getting back my hair is a miracle because I was lucky, and I responded and gained results. I am not looking back now, no matter what. I am so bad at my mental health. I can't look back, and I will try to fight it in every way. I am losing my friends, losing the essence of life. If I do something, it will be more psychotropic, forgetting the problem for a bit and then jumping back to reality. Only treatments can make things better. I would consider Estradiol but Gyno.. Oh, the Gyno is one side effect that I scared so much. I already have some side effects from Finasteride, though, including a bit of Gyno already (that's why I scared of E2 so much) and others, but it is what it is. Nothing in that life comes free without paying the penalty. That's why I want at least to try Alfatradiol/17α-Estradiol combined with dutasteride and my current treatment. I want to introduce other mechanisms as well, so I can fight it from different angles. We already know that hair loss is multifactorial either way.
Thanks for responding.

 

[Norwoody]

Well the goal is to at least establish maintenance first. That in itself is huge because that then opens the door to transplantation.

 

[Solxama]

I am not coping or whatever. I know that having such aggressive baldness and so soon means stronger genes as well. For me getting back my hair is a miracle because I was lucky, and I responded and gained results. I am not looking back now, no matter what. I am so bad at my mental health. I can't look back, and I will try to fight it in every way. I am losing my friends, losing the essence of life. If I do something, it will be more psychotropic, forgetting the problem for a bit and then jumping back to reality. Only treatments can make things better. I would consider Estradiol but Gyno.. Oh, the Gyno is one side effect that I scared so much. I already have some side effects from Finasteride, though, including a bit of Gyno already (that's why I scared of E2 so much) and others, but it is what it is. Nothing in that life comes free without paying the penalty. That's why I want at least to try Alfatradiol/17α-Estradiol combined with dutasteride and my current treatment. I want to introduce other mechanisms as well, so I can fight it from different angles. We already know that hair loss is multifactorial either way.
Thanks for responding.

I didn't say you are coping, I wanted to point out that the ones who tell people like us to cope don't understand what we are going through, and their stupid advice should be ignored. I listened to that bullshit between 17 and 22, and ended up in a loop of self-destruction and self-hatred. So if anybody tells you to cope, just ignore them .

As for Estradiol, I'm also a bit scared of gyno, but just like you said, it's the price we have to pay. I can always get a surgery in the future if it's really bad. In my case I have two choices, do HRT or I go bald, and the second option I cannot even imagine.

 

[GRme11]

I didn't say you are coping, I wanted to point out that the ones who tell people like us to cope don't understand what we are going through, and their stupid advice should be ignored. I listened to that bullshit between 17 and 22, and ended up in a loop of self-destruction and self-hatred. So if anybody tells you to cope, just ignore them .

As for Estradiol, I'm also a bit scared of gyno, but just like you said, it's the price we have to pay. I can always get a surgery in the future if it's really bad. In my case I have two choices, do HRT or I go bald, and the second option I cannot even imagine.

Well, I TOTALLY agree with you, but I don't want to blame the other people as well. Everyone has different aspects. For others, it won't be so important, while for others, it will be extremely important, including me. I listened to this many times, get a beard, muscle, etc. Well, if someone is happy with that, no problem, it's his choice. For me, hair is affecting me all the way, especially psychologically and mentally. Hair is controlling my psychology. When things are going well, I am good as well. On the other hand, when things are going bad, I am in a total disaster... Losing your mental health, being depressed, not feeling well with yourself, not feeling joy, it's a game over. I can imagine your situation as well, and I cannot as well imagine going from a miracle back to zero. Oh, how unbearable it would be... I don't want to think about it. I don't know where my desperation will lead me then, I really don't… That's why I am trying to do everything that I can and fight it, with or without the corresponding consequences. Thank you for responding.

 

[Solxama]

Well, I TOTALLY agree with you, but I don't want to blame the other people as well. Everyone has different aspects. For others, it won't be so important, while for others, it will be extremely important, including me. I listened to this many times, get a beard, muscle, etc. Well, if someone is happy with that, no problem, it's his choice. For me, hair is affecting me all the way, especially psychologically and mentally. Losing your mental health, being depressed, not feeling well with yourself, not feeling joy, it's a game over. I can imagine your situation as well, and I cannot as well imagine going from a miracle back to zero. Oh, how unbearable it would be... I don't want to think about it. I don't know where my desperation will lead me then, I really don't… That's why I am trying to do everything that I can and fight it, with or without the corresponding consequences. Thank you for responding.

I don't blame others, it's my own fault that I listened to them. The people who don't care are happy so I'm happy for them, the people with internalized gender roles are simply a product of their environment, so I don't blame them either, and for the snobs and assholes, I try not to hate them, but do as Jesus said, so I pity them and try to love them as my fellow human beings, even if they are toxic. But I still cut them out of my life as they are not needed anywhere near me.

LOL, I tried the whole man up thing, I used to lift, and I tried to grow a beard. Let's just say that the lifting made me even more depressed, and I had to shave the beard off after only 3 weeks, as it became unbearable to look at myself. I hate body and facial hair, it's disgusting! I even joke to myself sometimes, why the hell does hair want to grow all over my body, but not on my head lol. Humor is a good way of staying sane.

As for my mental health, spirituality and meditation got me out of my dark self-destructive mindset, and I started fixing all the mistakes I made during my life. So I started eating better, stopped drinking, started caring for my health etc. And this led me to rediscovering my real personality, that I repressed for years. And then... hair loss hit me like a truck, all the cope and repression I did fell instantly, and I was left in a very bad situation. So I started looking for ways to reverse it, first I got on everything natural that somewhat works, then I tried going to useless doctors who tried to scam me, and then I started looking online. In the end I found this forum, that once again gave me hope that there is a chance to defeat this horrible disease.

 

[GRme11]

I don't blame others, it's my own fault that I listened to them. The people who don't care are happy so I'm happy for them, the people with internalized gender roles are simply a product of their environment, so I don't blame them either, and for the snobs and assholes, I try not to hate them, but do as Jesus said, so I pity them and try to love them as my fellow human beings, even if they are toxic. But I still cut them out of my life as they are not needed anywhere near me.

LOL, I tried the whole man up thing, I used to lift, and I tried to grow a beard. Let's just say that the lifting made me even more depressed, and I had to shave the beard off after only 3 weeks, as it became unbearable to look at myself. I hate body and facial hair, it's disgusting! I even joke to myself sometimes, why the hell does hair want to grow all over my body, but not on my head lol. Humor is a good way of staying sane.

As for my mental health, spirituality and meditation got me out of my dark self-destructive mindset, and I started fixing all the mistakes I made during my life. So I started eating better, stopped drinking, started caring for my health etc. And this led me to rediscovering my real personality, that I repressed for years. And then... hair loss hit me like a truck, all the cope and repression I did fell instantly, and I was left in a very bad situation. So I started looking for ways to reverse it, first I got on everything natural that somewhat works, then I tried going to useless doctors who tried to scam me, and then I started looking online. In the end I found this forum, that once again gave me hope that there is a chance to defeat this horrible disease.

Yes, I understood your aspect, and seems extremely reasonable. I didn't want to accuse you or something about blaming.

Yes, I have a lot of body hair and beard too, and when I say a lot, I mean it. I started getting a full beard by the age of 14-15. I am saying the same about body hair and my head hair a thousand times as well.

Well, I saw how my mental health is deteriorating from hair loss…So, I am trying to confront it whatever it takes. Like I said, losing your mental health, being depressed, not feeling well with yourself, not feeling joy, it's a game over. Glad that you are trying to fight it, not only you but the other members here as well. I hope the best to you and for every member here.

Thanks for responding.

 

[GRme11]

Well the goal is to at least establish maintenance first. That in itself is huge because that then opens the door to transplantation.

For sure, that's a great goal, but if losing your hair so early, what are your actual chances to maintain it long-term? For example, until you get a hair transplant. The uncertainty of what will happen later on brings significant anxiety and fear, making things worse. Of course, I am feeling like this. I guess getting on the treatment is the best for sure, but no matter what, these thoughts will be there, at least in the back of your mind, which makes sense. Uncertainty is something to fear anyways.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Solxama]

For sure, that's a great goal, but if losing your hair so early, what are your actual chances to maintain it long-term? For example, until you get a hair transplant. The uncertainty of what will happen later on brings significant anxiety and fear, making things worse. Of course, I am feeling like this. I guess getting on the treatment is the best for sure, but no matter what, these thoughts will be there, at least in the back of your mind, which makes sense. Uncertainty is something to fear anyways.

Thanks for responding.

That's one thing, the other thing is you can never be sure you can become a viable transplant candidate, and then transplants seem to be expensive as hell. That's why I have decided to go on a HRT regimen, as in the worst case scenario gyno surgery is cheaper then a transplant. And then there is the psychological issue that you mentioned, I will have peace of mind that I'm doing something, not waiting in uncertainty about will a transplant be possible, and will I ever have enough money in the next few years to do it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Curious about you guys' opinion:

I went through my scalp and picked out all of the mutant, i.e. meaning follicles that don't lie straight, often because of a corkscrew shape. These follicles seem to come out easily. I tried as much as possible to pluck within a small radius as that makes plucking more efficient. Do you think my removing all of those will improve blood supply to the rest? Since they were always white in color and wouldn't like down made it easier to identify them. Pretty much the only few gray hairs on top are corkscrewed but I have tons on my face from oral minoxidil. I then microneedled right after with retin-A, minoxidil, Estrogel and castor oil and then dunked in the top to get it all out. Oh, I forgot Keto. I microneedled that too.