Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[ReturnOfExtreme]

Hair instead of penis ? not , thanks.

Jesus, now this is a transgender forum.

I mean, this is one of the few threads speaking about this sort of regimen. You’re just pressed that this thread is popular and continues to thrive. No one asked for your opinion, neither does it affect anyone, so leave,

 

[goku_black]

Who cares about what women think?

i am. as well as the majority of hair loss sufferers

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

He is doind a chenical castrate regimen . Thinking that he is not having side effects as a male is laughable

If taking exogenous estrogen is chemical castration so is f*****g TRT you goof.

If anything using low doses of estrogen will have less of an impact on the HPT axis because males don't NEED and don't have an integral feedback loop associated with estrogen, they DO with testosterone. Which means small amounts of exogenous estrogen to offset androgenic hairloss and encourage growth will f*** things up far less than testosterone replacement will because the male body revolves around a feedback loop of circulating testosterone.

Estrogen Alone May Not Suppress Testosterone

CHICAGO -- Simply giving estrogen to male-to-female transgender patients won't completely suppress testosterone levels, researchers reported here.

www.medpagetoday.com

It is -entirely- possible to use small doses of topical estrogen to effectively balance out testosterone to estrogen ratios without causing total suppression as is the case with TRT.

Estrogen as compared to other drugs is in fact a far more gentle way of offsetting androgenic influence on hair that is far more reversible if you use it in the right quantities. I won't even be suppressed while using estradiol in the right dosage, and I will reap physiological benefits of the hormone as compared to finasteride which only has hope of mitigating negatives.

 

[inmyhead]

I've searched through this thread but couldn't find. Anyone tried topical bicalutamide? or would that be too strong still?

 

[franzliszt]

I've searched through this thread but couldn't find. Anyone tried topical bicalutamide? or would that be too strong still?

There's a thread about topical bicalutamide. I've also ordered some bicalutamide powder to use as a topical.

 

[GRme11]

I've searched through this thread but couldn't find. Anyone tried topical bicalutamide? or would that be too strong still?

Check here as well : https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/35173-Started-Topical-Bicalutamide

I am the Unknown00 user and I made some suggestions and asked some questions. Thanks

 

[franzliszt]

Check here as well : https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/35173-Started-Topical-Bicalutamide

I am the Unknown00 user and I made some suggestions and asked some questions. Thanks

this thread has some good info:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/topical-bicalutamide-log-lets-see-if-this-works.114936/

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Figured I'd upload a monthly update since I'm obsessed and take 50 pics of my hair every day anyways... Didn't notice much difference this month but whatever (last pic is taken in dark with flash on)
View attachment 151531

Hopefully in a couple of updates I'll have a full head of hair

Are you taking oral estrogen or applying it topically?

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Thanks for the clarification, even though I'm not going to take it orally, that provides a pretty decent baseline of what level of concentration might be necessary systemically.

For me it will be a matter of working my magic and seeing how I can manage growth without side effects, and I feel like I'm well up for the job.

 

[ReturnOfExtreme]

i am. as well as the majority of hair loss sufferers

Maybe that’s just an issue with men. What I find interesting how women say that they change themselves for their own happiness, yet men rarely have that same idea on this website. With men, it’s ‘will this attract women?’ whilst women rarely even have men in mind when changing their appearance. It’s an incel mentality, in all honesty.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Maybe that’s just an issue with men. What I find interesting how women say that they change themselves for their own happiness, yet men rarely have that same idea on this website. With men, it’s ‘will this attract women?’ whilst women rarely even have men in mind when changing their appearance. It’s an incel mentality, in all honesty.

I don't agree with that at all, I think that term itself is both overused and inappropriately pejorative.

Men quite appropriately have thousands of years of epigenetically reinforced breeding and pair bonding instincts, and telling a man to merely ignore that is in of itself extremely ignorant. Women say a lot of sh*t tbh, and women do things and look a certain way in modern society just as much if not moreso because they have thousands of years of epigenetically and culturally reinforced fear of being judged by other women.

Women just tend to be a lot more cowardly if I might be honest about the real reasons why they do things, which is also an epigenetically reinforced behavior.

All of this sh*t is runs deep, it's coded into our genes to "win" at our programmed outcomes, which for men are pair bond, have a family and square it off from the rest of society and prevent reproductive interlopers. Frankly anything else is dysgenic in my opinion.

Conversely women have evolved due to disparate roles in society to have to deal more extensively with the social rigors of female collective behavior, and that has resulted in its own set of idiosyncrasies that are encoded into women epigenetically for thousands of years. The impulse for men to win a genetic bearer of his offspring and keep it is as strong as a woman's genetically spurred desire to sabotage other women from being selected, hence why women have developed in such a way culturally, and why you see women act like such sociopathic horrible c**** to one another, as opposed to how men deal with saboteurs which is more direct and physical.

Telling somebody to ignore what they were genetically programmed for is basically saying they're not worth it, and no human being with any level of self awareness is going to take that well, and calling them an incel for it isn't going to make things any better, it reeks of bitter sadism.

Incidentally one of my reasons for wanting to look good is precisely to harry any female political opponents who are smug and delusional enough to enter a political discussion with me, I've done it consistently in the past and I really enjoy the feeling of jamming the evolutionary signals women get when they see somebody they're attracted to not simping in favor of their venal, shallow politics.

It's like riding atop an armored horse driving a lance through parts of society I dislike, largely I hate this world and most of the people in it. So it feels good and in my own way, I am from a Nietzschean perspective discharging my own power in a very primitive way, in the way that all human beings are inherently supposed to.

 

[goku_black]

On the pursuit of beauty for Cis-males:

As I say often, the level of discussion on this thread is very, very high. It's not often that one hears references to Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche on a baldness thread. I gave up on trying to help people on Tressless as it is all but useless since everyone believes in minoxidil and finasteride-dependent hair and every other question is the same exact question about "I tried finasteride and now I can't get wood" or a question about minoxidil and finasteride sheds that end up terrifying other people off these meds. Will I lose my minoxidil hair if I switch to finasteride or vice versa?

What? Hair is hair. I never considered parts of my hair to belong to polysorbates and parts to belong to minoxidil and finasteride and now estrogen. What about oral minoxidil? Virtually everything on Tressless is mindless by people who apparently don't know how to scroll since they can get the answers to these questions literally 25 times daily. Granted, most of the answers are wrong, but still.

Then there are the questions where people expect others to confirm that their hair loss is just Telogen Effluvium from "stress"; when you tell them that is highly unlikely then they argue with you about their parents divorce and how hard they work in college. Been there, done that back when I was 20. I do think we need to find a better description for diffuse thinning but how do you know if something is just a shed? Well, since I posted earlier my pics of the ultimate shed from last summer through October, I think that you know if the hair not only grows back but it should grow back better if using some treatment and at least as well if not using one. My feeling is that virtually all of these guys are in denial. Maturing hairlines anyone?

For MtFs, it is always about switching meds to try to increase breast size; cis-females can't increase breast size; why would MtFs think that they are different? Many/most MtFs simply have unrealistic expectations about what HRT can achieve, besides hair, the one area where HRT can entirely mimic the female experience but some of this is due to wigs not being perceived as a stigma in this setting where for many, emulation of divas and female impersonators is seen as the ideal. This has a strong class element to it that cuts across the kumbaya notions of all MtFs "being in this together". To each their own but....

Lol, I can tell I am getting older since I only learned the term incel this summer on a show on Youtube called Cringeworthy by Natalie Wynn, the one MtF that I know of who is both as tall as Brooke Shields and actually better looking, at least now. It basically dealt with what our obligations are when other people are embarrassing themselves in public and thereby embarrassing the "good MtFs" who put in ultimate effort versus those who tell everyone that they don't need beard or hair removal or even to shave since they are "hippie types" or non-binary. Family members tend to fear that we are going to embarrass them and I have done my level best to lend no cause to disparagement of transgender females but should that being any concern of mine, either way? I believe in always dressing to the 9's for my fellow citizens and any of us who grow hair are simply more pleasant to look at and to be around. If a person wears a dress, they ought to look good in it unless they are just trying to break down gender clothing barriers but eh....

If I don't harp on it enough, MtF hormonal therapy is transformative from head to toe and it virtually always, along with beard removal takes 15 to 25 years off one's face and just as much off tired, worn-out bodies as essentially all skin and non-bone tissue is rematrixed and feels female/pre-pubertal in terms of softness and smoothness. My bad back went away; my overly-muscled neck began to actually turn 270 degrees without pain, my dermatitis, my baldness, the lines on my face and forehead all improved and I lost much of my desire for alcohol. My skin became much paler and facially, this creamy aspect is becoming and experienced by virtually all, regardless of race.

The downsides? I am slightly weaker; I run more slowly; I bruise and cut more easily and in female garb, I now know why females avoid strange men and look down when crossing paths with unknown males because we are at risk since virtually all cis-males exceed 170 cm while only about 15% of females do. Honestly, when controlling for body mass, females are not in fact substantially weaker than males, especially in terms of lower body strength, but females are invariable smaller on average, usually about four inches or so. In some countries, male average close to six feet but for females, the average maxes out around 170 cm. Wikipedia has average height listings for all nations but the Slavic and Scandinavian and Northern Germanic (Dutch, German) folks tend to be the tallest. Americans are losing height probably due to immigration from Central American and other nations where nutrition may be scarce. Once I dumped spironolactone, my strength came back all but instantly. To me, that is nasty stuff with serious life style side effects plus it raises T unlike MPA.

To have this chance in middle age is mind-blowing to me. I am fine with using my "male" name and ditching the skirts and dresses but I would never go off HRT. That's how awesome it is and that's how awesome it feels psychologically not to need to "conquer" women or chase five orgasms in a day or to be stuck in a rut about the same stupid fantasies like the cuckold crowd who seem to have taken over a big chunk of p**rn and which is entirely humiliation-based. Humiliation as being erotic is completely absent when a person hits adult female E2 and T targets and much more so when an AA is added to the mix. Hours and hours of weekly time are available to spend on things not related to sex. Some might notice that I write a lot, lol. Oh yeah, I also sleep much less now under HRT.

Sexual preference appears to often not be involved for older MtFs when compared with younger ones, who tend to grow up more openly effeminate. I use all of these terms without disparagement as one has to "reclaim" such terms to become comfortable and to move past the deeply embedded notions of shame related to males wanting to be more like females. Calling it androgyny works far better for me and once you can wear a dress in public during transition and not just after, you have pretty much conquered all of the shame.

It's liberating and together with restoration of hair and looks simply exceeds anything that I could have ever dreamed of. I am now at the age where it's expected and "okay" to be bald but that's simply not for me. I do have several children and a beautiful ex-wife so I would never counsel anyone to go down this road without living out those goals or permission from their partner because nothing is worth losing loved ones. But estrogen has the potential to make essentially all better, male, female and other. I don't mind being called a tranny or the guys who come on trying to shame us for doing this and that's what the anti-finasteride and anti-HRT folks who come on here are attempting to do lest they fall even further behind.

We get the last laugh when we look at their regimens knowing that none of it is likely to work. Tressless folks are always talking about treatments in the future. The future is here. Virtually all of MtF HRT is reversible and even more so when using high level techniques like serms, although that can become overly complicated. Baldness for non-breeders is a choice and for most, not using finasteride is simply fatuous; these folks generally have no knowledge of statistics or false positives or placebo/nocebo effects; this makes them unable to proper diagnose their pseudo-disorders; ultimately they lack the ability to engage in proper risk analysis.

Just to add this about cis-females who have their own motivations but most of them do put extra effort in to look better for family, friends and neighbors while the male stereotype is a guy wearing a 12 year old t-shirt, gross underwear and one sock as he vapidly turns cable channels. Makeup can do wonders for everyone, male and female alike. Females know intuitively the power and expressiveness of makeup. Cis-males over time, except for perhaps gay bottoms (generalization) don't trade on their looks and have instead used their utility in terms of brute force work and accumulated wealth to attract partners. That doesn't work in a post-industrial society so of course in many ways, baldness is much worse now than in the olden days.

The sexes are balanced in that I see females as superior in virtually all ways but notice none of them want to be lumberjacks or steel works or miners. Males in the past did things that I would never even consider. At the same time, virtually all geniuses, especially in math, physics and music are male, as are most of the idiots and deviants. Females are more attractive than males all but univerally after puberty. The Ancient Greeks knew this; when did the rest of us forget that most of us lose our looks starting as young as 13.

For cis-males who want not only to restore hair but to be more attractive, I would suggest soft androgyny or to follow the styles of Brad Pitt, Jeff Bridges, Richard Gere and the Beatles, folks who always had great hair that could be worn long. Don't be afraid to consider botox on the masseter muscles or other areas of the face; if you have the funds, try micro-needling the face in a salon. Even lip injections can promote attractiveness for whites since our lips often wither as we age. Since you will be smiling a lot with your new hair, consider fixing up teeth for the folks past 40. My father was a Captain in the Marine Corps but the Beatles raised me. They made caring about male looks and hair both cool and acceptable compared to the crew cut days where going bald barely mattered.

Goddess bless.

 

[ReturnOfExtreme]

I don't agree with that at all, I think that term itself is both overused and inappropriately pejorative.

Men quite appropriately have thousands of years of epigenetically reinforced breeding and pair bonding instincts, and telling a man to merely ignore that is in of itself extremely ignorant. Women say a lot of sh*t tbh, and women do things and look a certain way in modern society just as much if not moreso because they have thousands of years of epigenetically and culturally reinforced fear of being judged by other women.

Women just tend to be a lot more cowardly if I might be honest about the real reasons why they do things, which is also an epigenetically reinforced behavior.

All of this sh*t is runs deep, it's coded into our genes to "win" at our programmed outcomes, which for men are pair bond, have a family and square it off from the rest of society and prevent reproductive interlopers. Frankly anything else is dysgenic in my opinion.

Conversely women have evolved due to disparate roles in society to have to deal more extensively with the social rigors of female collective behavior, and that has resulted in its own set of idiosyncrasies that are encoded into women epigenetically for thousands of years. The impulse for men to win a genetic bearer of his offspring and keep it is as strong as a woman's genetically spurred desire to sabotage other women from being selected, hence why women have developed in such a way culturally, and why you see women act like such sociopathic horrible c**** to one another, as opposed to how men deal with saboteurs which is more direct and physical.

Telling somebody to ignore what they were genetically programmed for is basically saying they're not worth it, and no human being with any level of self awareness is going to take that well, and calling them an incel for it isn't going to make things any better, it reeks of bitter sadism.

Incidentally one of my reasons for wanting to look good is precisely to harry any female political opponents who are smug and delusional enough to enter a political discussion with me, I've done it consistently in the past and I really enjoy the feeling of jamming the evolutionary signals women get when they see somebody they're attracted to not simping in favor of their venal, shallow politics.

It's like riding atop an armored horse driving a lance through parts of society I dislike, largely I hate this world and most of the people in it. So it feels good and in my own way, I am from a Nietzschean perspective discharging my own power in a very primitive way, in the way that all human beings are inherently supposed to.

At least this statement means I can demean men by saying their only existence on this planet is to act expired whilst women are more important. They are lusted over. Even with myself, I do not even try and men fall for me.

Regardless, you didn’t have to spend that long typing an excuse to yourself and other men on this website having an incel mentality. Luckily, gay men don’t dress great for other men and instead do it for themselves.

 

[franzliszt]

The Enzalutamide I ordered from china arrived today, ready to be dissolved in Labrasol. All I need is some propylene glycol, and possibly food grade ethanol (I haven't figured out if it's needed or not) to make the oral solution according to this paper:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/d9/71/9e/b820f2b94d8240/WO2018037310A1.pdf

If Enzalutamide has a binding affinity 8-10 times greater than Bicalutamide, would 20mg of enzalutamide be equivalent to 160-200mg if Bica? The reccomended dose of Enza is 160mg, combined with castration/gnrh. I imagine that with the addition of estrogen, the dosage nescessary would be significantly decreased. My hope is to use Enza as an alternative to finasteride, as I know bica and estrogen alone are not enough to overcome DHT's binding affinity.

 

[ReturnOfExtreme]

My oral minoxidil dropped on the floor, can I still eat them and can I store them in a glass container because the old container broke...

 

[franzliszt]

My oral minoxidil dropped on the floor, can I still eat them and can I store them in a glass container because the old container broke...

If it was a glass container that shattered then no, but otherwise they should be fine.

 

[Selb]

My oral minoxidil dropped on the floor, can I still eat them and can I store them in a glass container because the old container broke...

I can’t imagine dropping them would affect anything. And storing them in any container is fine.

About oral minoxidil, did you notice any side effects on it? I’m afraid of starting it because of skin and heart related sides.

I’m actually looking for the most effective growth inducer of hair, since my problem as far as I can tell isn’t dht and just loss of hair from medication.

 

[Jacob Williams]

Figured this might be helpful to some lurkers. Here’s my body transformation from a little over a year on bica. For about 3 months I was on bica and CPA. I’m at a higher body fat percentage in the 2nd but that’s because I gained weight, nothing to do with the drugs. The only drug induced difference is the gyno. I talked to a surgeon who thinks he can remove the whole gland so that it’ll never grow back. I have surgery scheduled in January so I’ll let y’all know how that goes since I figure that might be of interest. Aside from that the only side I got was slight sexual dysfunction, but it wasn’t anywhere near enough to be problematic. Bica wasn’t enough for me but it definitely helped slow my hairloss progression. I highly recommend. I was on 100mg for 9 months and I’ve been on 150 mg for the past 3 or so. If you think you’re going to pop a single pill and turn into a woman, you won’t. I still have a pretty masculine frame aside from the tits.

 

[Jacob Williams]

I think my goals differ quite a bit from Janey and Bridgeburn and are probably more in line with what most guys here want. I’m just trying to save my hair with the least amount of feminization possible. It helps that I started when I wasn’t anywhere near as far gone as others here. My advice is if your hairloss is progressing on traditional treatments, even if it’s still at a stage where you can hide it, and hairloss isn’t acceptable to you, do something about it. A year ago people were calling me a crazy fullhead for hopping on Bicalutamide because my hairloss didn’t look that bad. But it was getting worse, so it WAS going to get that bad. It’s much harder to recover the farther gone you are, and you’re going to have to resort to even more extreme treatments. I’d be in a much worse position today if I hadn’t taken the actions I have. Even if the sides are intolerable for you they tend to happen slowly, you’ll have time to back out.

 

[Jacob Williams]

I started estrogel a few days ago. I’m not planning to take enough to significantly down-regulate my testosterone, but I hope that it will reduce it to within normal male ranges again since bicalutamide raises your testosterone. Even that’s doubtful at my dosage though. The primary reason I chose to apply estrogel topically to my scalp is because estrogen CAN have a more targeted local effects, some of it will certainly go systemic, but I’m hoping to form a gradient of sorts with the highest concentration at the site of application. Studies show that estrogen can pretty substantially downregulate AR expression as well as being a growth agonist itself. So I’m hoping it provides that trifecta of results for me, slightly less testosterone, less AR expression, and regrowth. Curing my Seborrheic dermatitis which has been unresponsive to anything else would be a nice cherry on top.