Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[pegasus2]

Can you elaborate? I’ve never even heard of eplerenone or the mineralcorticoid receptor before.

The mineralocorticoid receptor is responsible for fibrosis. Eplerenone and spironolactone are MCR antagonists, blocking the negative effects of aldosterone and cortisol, downregulating GPER, and reversing fibrosis. Spironolactone is also an androgen antagonist, while eplerenone is not.

Has anyone experimented with VDR agonists?

Lots of people have. It is only a major issue in alopecia areata.

 

[John Difool]

Did you mean Minor

 

[pegasus2]

What would you suggest, RU?

Before you go full HRT, RU is the bare minimum of what you can try. Topical darolutamide, ASC-J9(very messy, you must be dedicated), Wnt agonists, microneedling. If you're a cis male HRT is not a trivial thing. You should exhaust all other options before trying it.

Did you mean Minor

No, it plays a significant role in immune-related hair loss. In androgenetic alopecia it is minor.

 

[Rysteve93]

Let’s just say one was to go down the anti Androgen route, is Spironolactone the better choice? I see a lot of yous guys using it. From what I’ve read it’s extremely harsh on the liver, not really sustainable long term & weaker in comparison to others. Also it is total shut down of production of T, Where as Bic is a lot more potent and safer to use. Doesn’t directly shut down T production but it binds to androgen receptors.

I’m no expert and I’m pretty novice when it comes to this route I’m just trying to understand it clearly before choosing to do anything.

can any of you guys weigh pros and cons of..

Cpa
spironolactone
Bic

 

[NorwoodingMyWay]

Let’s just say one was to go down the anti Androgen route, is Spironolactone the better choice? I see a lot of yous guys using it. From what I’ve read it’s extremely harsh on the liver, not really sustainable long term & weaker in comparison to others. Also it is total shut down of production of T, Where as Bic is a lot more potent and safer to use. Doesn’t directly shut down T production but it binds to androgen receptors.

I’m no expert and I’m pretty novice when it comes to this route I’m just trying to understand it clearly before choosing to do anything.

can any of you guys weigh pros and cons of..

Cpa
spironolactone
Bic

CPA : very effective at lowering T levels even in low doses. The most common doses used in HRT is 6.25 mg- 25 mg. Not sustainable long term (possible side effects of brain tumours, liver diseases, cardiovascular complications, troubled metabolism ect...)




Spironolactone : quite effective in blocking androgens. Controversial on whether it lowers T levels or not. High doses (>200 mg) may be needed to block a substantial amount of male range T / DHT. The most common doses used in HRT are 50 mg- 200 mg. Carries more common side effects such as dizziness, dehydration, excessive sweating / peeing, low blood pressure, passing out ect... In sever cases, it can lead to death due to hyperkaleamia and kidney failure.




Bica : very effective in blocking androgen. High doses (100 mg and more) may be needed to block male range T / DHT. The most common dosage is 50 mg used in HRT. Minimal common side effects ( hot flashes, dizziness ect...), but carries a significant Gyno probability. Severe side effects are liver failure and seizures.




Choose your poison.

 

[pegasus2]

CPA is the on that is most toxic to the liver. Spironlocatone is the safest in that regard. Like norwooding said, the danger with spironolactone is hyperkalemia, but that is the result of it being a mineralocorticoid antagonist, which is one of the pathways you want to hit.

 

[NorwoodingMyWay]

CPA is the on that is most toxic to the liver. Spironlocatone is the safest in that regard. Like norwooding said, the danger with spironolactone is hyperkalemia, but that is the result of it being a mineralocorticoid antagonist, which is one of the pathways you want to hit.

Oh, what's the relation between a mineralcorticoid antagonist and hair loss ?? Is it really an effective route to attack (do the positives outweight the negatives) ??




I searched throughoutly but couldn't find anything on Eplerenone and hair loss, only spironolactone and the usual "it's an anti androgen ect...".

 

[mryellowman]

Let’s just say one was to go down the anti Androgen route, is Spironolactone the better choice? I see a lot of yous guys using it. From what I’ve read it’s extremely harsh on the liver, not really sustainable long term & weaker in comparison to others. Also it is total shut down of production of T, Where as Bic is a lot more potent and safer to use. Doesn’t directly shut down T production but it binds to androgen receptors.

I’m no expert and I’m pretty novice when it comes to this route I’m just trying to understand it clearly before choosing to do anything.

can any of you guys weigh pros and cons of..

Cpa
spironolactone
Bic

I wouldn't go for bica. It's trash if you use it alone. Maybe spironolactone would be better for you if you use oral minoxidil with it.

 

[Itsnoahkennedy]

8 months off HRT, temples have receded a lil bit. Other than a 3 month Telogen Effluvium from stopping hormones, not to bad. ‍ Still on dutasteride.

 

[Rysteve93]

I wouldn't go for bica. It's trash if you use it alone. Maybe spironolactone would be better for you if you use oral minoxidil with it.

I’m going to go 100mg spironolactone, with dust and oral minoxidil... 3 months oral minoxidil to soon for regrowth? I Loose next to no hair a day, one or two when showering while on this!

 

[NorwoodingMyWay]

View attachment 144697

8 months off HRT, temples have receded a lil bit. Other than a 3 month Telogen Effluvium from stopping hormones, not to bad. ‍ Still on dutasteride.

Hey Noah, what made you stop HRT ?? I'm sorry if you've already explained why in the past, i haven't been keeping up with this site as i had been.




Also, are you solely on dutasteride alone ?? No CPA , other AAs or minoxidil ??

 

[mryellowman]

I’m going to go 100mg spironolactone, with dust and oral minoxidil... 3 months oral minoxidil to soon for regrowth? I Loose next to no hair a day, one or two when showering while on this!

Its soon. Usually its around 5-6 months for regrowth but you should be experiencing hair darkining. It makes your existing hair alot thicker in 1-2 months.

 

[Itsnoahkennedy]

Hey Noah, what made you stop HRT ?? I'm sorry if you've already explained why in the past, i haven't been keeping up with this site as i had been.




Also, are you solely on dutasteride alone ?? No CPA , other AAs or minoxidil ??

The pandemic affected over seas shipping so I said f*** it let’s see how long it takes for the nw0 to deteriorate without an estrogen dominant hormone profile lol. Btw I ordered 2 years worth of HRT on July 6th I’m just waiting on it to arrive then I’ll be back on it.

 

[NorwoodingMyWay]

The pandemic affected over seas shipping so I said f*** it let’s see how long it takes for the nw0 to deteriorate without an estrogen dominant hormone profile lol. Btw I ordered 2 years worth of HRT on July 6th I’m just waiting on it to arrive then I’ll be back on it.

What HRT regimen will you be on ??




Also, 8 months off HRT and your temples have only receeded a little is amazing. Do you think that once the follicles adapted to a certain E / AA environment and began to grow, could they start miniaturizing later in life even if you remain E dominant ??

 

[omega]

Edited!

I need a little help.

My Total testosteron was 17,200 nmol / L (496 ng / dL), and now (1,5 month later) 10,300 nmol / L (297 ng / dL). -- This is maybe too fast, or not?
(Reference values: Min.: 5,550 (165 ng / dL ); Max: 25,170 nmol / L (726 ng / dL) )

Starting on June 15 I took 50 mg spironolactone / d until July 14. After that time 75mg / d for 12 days and now 100 mg / d
I may have to reduce my dosage to 50mg / d.

I try to keep my masculinity (& libido), so I want to reduce my total T. level to only 7,000 nmol / L (201 ng / dL).

But I want to add 5 mg Finasteride / d to my regimen within a few days.
So I don't know if I need to reduce my dosage to 50mg SPL / d, since the finasteride increase the Total testosteron level.

I know that E2 helps to hair regrow with VEGF factor and others, so this I will start on September. (sht shipping)

My regimen:

SPL 100mg / d
E2 1mg / d (I'll start on September 1st)
Finasteride 5mg / d
Licorine 3,5g / d (mineralocorticoid activity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spironolactone#Interactions
Silibinin 210mg / d (for healthy liver function) http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/34/8/4323.full
topical minoxidil 5% / d
Dermastemp / once a week
Vit C 300mg / 3 times a day
Collagen 3g / d



It isn't related to my issue, but I scraped this topic.. (attached img)
(If someone haven't too much time to read the topic.
"The most important pages" are a little different from current version (plus - minus 1-5 page)

 

[Jacob Williams]

Is there any point to microneedling if you use oral minoxidil and not topical? I can’t tell if the results I see on others are due to the microneedling itself or better absorption of minoxidil. I’m concerned I’ll make things worse.

 

[Rysteve93]

Is there any point to microneedling if you use oral minoxidil and not topical? I can’t tell if the results I see on others are due to the microneedling itself or better absorption of minoxidil. I’m concerned I’ll make things worse.

I was also wondering this mate. I’ve just started needling but afraid I’ll loose ground.

 

[pegasus2]

I was also wondering this mate. I’ve just started needling but afraid I’ll loose ground.

I was also wondering this mate. I’ve just started needling but afraid I’ll loose ground.

This has been asked 100 times in the dermarolling threads. The point of dermarolling is not to increase absorption. In fact, in Follica's study they avoid increased absorption by not using minoxidil until 24 hours after the procedure when the skin barrier has returned. I think you can help results by increasing absorption, but Follica doesn't do that out of an abundance of caution. Everyone should be needling.

 

[Itsnoahkennedy]

What HRT regimen will you be on ??




Also, 8 months off HRT and your temples have only receeded a little is amazing. Do you think that once the follicles adapted to a certain E / AA environment and began to grow, could they start miniaturizing later in life even if you remain E dominant ??

It will be the same as always, 50mg CPA, 6-8mg Estradiol, 100mg Prometrium, 0.5mg dutasteride.

If my follicles start to miniaturize again in the future on HRT then it’s because they have become so sensitive to androgens that even the smallest amount of AR binding can kill them, in that case I would have to switch off CPA and use a potent NSAA to block all AR activity to grow it back, like how women use bicalutamide to reverse their thinning hair. I don’t see that happening for quite a few years though.

 

[NorwoodingMyWay]

It will be the same as always, 50mg CPA, 6-8mg Estradiol, 100mg Prometrium, 0.5mg dutasteride.

If my follicles start to miniaturize again in the future on HRT then it’s because they have become so sensitive to androgens that even the smallest amount of AR binding can kill them, in that case I would have to switch off CPA and use a potent NSAA to block all AR activity to grow it back, like how women use bicalutamide to reverse their thinning hair. I don’t see that happening for quite a few years though.

Thanks for the insight

by "a potent NSAA" you mean Bicalutamide, right ??





Btw, isn't that CPA dose high (not to mention you'll be taking 6-8 mg E with it !!) ?? Are you regularly checking your liver / prolactin levels ?? Stay safe.