Equol: A Natural Dht Binder And The Primary Ingredient In Brotzu

[Sanchez1234]

Who is on equol for hair besides georgie?

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Who is on equol for hair besides georgie?

Whatevr is having success but has had to lower the dosage due to brain related sides.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Whatevr is having success but has had to lower the dosage due to brain related sides.

Yes ive read that, though he took it short term! Hope more people will try it.

 

[whatevr]

Do you have something to reference that hypothyroidism in men is good for hair growth/slowing down hair loss? Or are you just going to say you 'notice' when your thyroid is not doing well your hair feels better or hypothesize that because thyroid hormone is good for your body and production of adequate sex hormones that interfering with them will reduce testosterone and therefore possibly hair loss?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142373
"Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5769417
"Hypothyroidism was associated with an increased MCR T , MCR T /m 2 and conversion ratio of testosterone to androstenedione."
(increased metabolism of T to weaker androgens)

And, the big whopper:
https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0045/ea0045oc6.3
"Untreated or undiagnosed hypothyroidism is a potential cause of reversible 5α reductase-2 deficiency. Altered steroid metabolism in hypothyroidism, if undetected may lead to erroneous results and interpretation of USP; thus excluding hypothyroidism in diagnostic work ups for DSD, especially patients with late presentations is extremely important."

Look at that last one... being hypothyroid is pretty much a milder form of Propecia! No wonder I have similar symptoms to Propecia users when untreated... brain fog, barely any libido.


So now that you have it black and white explained by science, my anecdotal observations also align with this:

-when I treat my thyroid my libido shoots up and I almost feel like in high school again. Scalp itch which is normally nonexistant, becomes quite a problem on treatment
-my hair loss is really slow when hypothyroid, I can maintain on 2 mg of equol
-when treating it, I start shedding like mad, and need a far more aggressive regimen, 6 mg of equol and above are necessary to stop it

 

[whatevr]

Yes ive read that, though he took it short term! Hope more people will try it.

I still take it! Next thing I am going to do is encapsulate it in some basic liposomes to try and improve the side effect profile. I got an ultrasonic cleaner today, still waiting on the soy lecithin. If it looks promising, I will buy even more advanced equipment to reduce the size of the vesicles and ensure they are uniform, separate the unencapsulated ethanol portion and maybe even add cationic lipids to improve adherence. It will depend on how much success I have in obtaining the necessary materials.

 

[Retinoid]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142373
"Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5769417
"Hypothyroidism was associated with an increased MCR T , MCR T /m 2 and conversion ratio of testosterone to androstenedione."
(increased metabolism of T to weaker androgens)

And, the big whopper:
https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0045/ea0045oc6.3
"Untreated or undiagnosed hypothyroidism is a potential cause of reversible 5α reductase-2 deficiency. Altered steroid metabolism in hypothyroidism, if undetected may lead to erroneous results and interpretation of USP; thus excluding hypothyroidism in diagnostic work ups for DSD, especially patients with late presentations is extremely important."

Look at that last one... being hypothyroid is pretty much a milder form of Propecia! No wonder I have similar symptoms to Propecia users when untreated... brain fog, barely any libido.


So now that you have it black and white explained by science, my anecdotal observations also align with this:

-when I treat my thyroid my libido shoots up and I almost feel like in high school again. Scalp itch which is normally nonexistant, becomes quite a problem on treatment
-my hair loss is really slow when hypothyroid, I can maintain on 2 mg of equol
-when treating it, I start shedding like mad, and need a far more aggressive regimen, 6 mg of equol and above are necessary to stop it

So those studies all indicate hypothyroidism is not good for production of male hormones, which is true. But you said it is good for hair. Just because men's hormones get all out of wack does not equal their hair being good. You rarely see men having too low of estrogen and too MUCH testosterone causing hair loss, it is actually more common for the reverse being true.

The reason why Finasteride is successful is because it targets the enzyme in the hair follicles and scalp, not because it is reducing DHT in the serum.

 

[YoungandHairy]

So those studies all indicate hypothyroidism is not good for production of male hormones, which is true. But you said it is good for hair. Just because men's hormones get all out of wack does not equal their hair being good. You rarely see men having too low of estrogen and too MUCH testosterone causing hair loss, it is actually more common for the reverse being true.

The reason why Finasteride is successful is because it targets the enzyme in the hair follicles and scalp, not because it is reducing DHT in the serum.

Did you not see the study regarding untreated hypothyroidism reducing 5-ar2?

And, the big whopper:
https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0045/ea0045oc6.3
"Untreated or undiagnosed hypothyroidism is a potential cause of reversible 5α reductase-2 deficiency. Altered steroid metabolism in hypothyroidism, if undetected may lead to erroneous results and interpretation of USP; thus excluding hypothyroidism in diagnostic work ups for DSD, especially patients with late presentations is extremely important."

Look at that last one... being hypothyroid is pretty much a milder form of Propecia! No wonder I have similar symptoms to Propecia users when untreated... brain fog, barely any libido.

 

[Georgie]

Estrogen dominance is not good for anyone's hair. Being in an unhealthy hormonal state is not good for hair. Having Hasimotos is not good for hair. Most men here do not have high testosterone or high DHT, it seems they are suffering more from low normal testosterone and high normal estrogen. I understand what you guys are saying---lower testosterone and increase estrogen for men, but that is very simplistic and most likely not helpful in male pattern baldness unless you do it to the deree where it changes receptor express in targeted tissues. Which is the problem, not that men with male pattern baldness have too little estrogen (which the opposite is usually true).

It was speculation on my part really. I know that for my eldest sister and mother they lost a lot of hair because of it though, although it did hit kind of a plateau and stop after a while. Without Androgenetic Alopecia they just have fine/normal hair.

 

[Georgie]

I still take it! Next thing I am going to do is encapsulate it in some basic liposomes to try and improve the side effect profile. I got an ultrasonic cleaner today, still waiting on the soy lecithin. If it looks promising, I will buy even more advanced equipment to reduce the size of the vesicles and ensure they are uniform, separate the unencapsulated ethanol portion and maybe even add cationic lipids to improve adherence. It will depend on how much success I have in obtaining the necessary materials.

I started also taking it orally. 20mg first day, 50mg yesterday, might work my way up to 100mg. My eyelashes are feel thicker and stronger which is weird (they were shedding along with the rest of my body hair). Also my eyebrows are sprouting again today. I’m currently supposed to not be growing any hair for three months because of my weird minoxidil cycle so I hope it’s a good indication that maybe it’s doing something positive, given that facial hair cycles much more quickly. My pimples I have noticed are lessening.

 

[Retinoid]

Did you not see the study regarding untreated hypothyroidism reducing 5-ar2?

You are quoting a study that was based on a 13 yr old boy, and an 11yr old boy and girl that had a DEFICIENCY in 5AR2 causing developmental problems. Thyroid replacement NORMALIZED this very important pubertal enzyme.

Did they go BALD after getting this NORMALIZED? Are we 11yr olds with a 5AR2 DEFICIENCY? Is it proven that having hypothyroidism in a 40yr old man or woman does anything for hair based on that study? NO.

Once again, hair loss is more complicated than serum hormones, it has to do with actual enzyme expression in the follicles and scalp skin as well as an inflammatory cascade. A healthy thyroid is good for hair and good for your health. Claiming it is bad for your hair is ridiculous.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I started also taking it orally. 20mg first day, 50mg yesterday, might work my way up to 100mg. My eyelashes are feel thicker and stronger which is weird (they were shedding along with the rest of my body hair). Also my eyebrows are sprouting again today. I’m currently supposed to not be growing any hair for three months because of my weird minoxidil cycle so I hope it’s a good indication that maybe it’s doing something positive, given that facial hair cycles much more quickly. My pimples I have noticed are lessening.

I'm in the process of checking out from this forum, but I'm logging in to say that it's nice to see you write something positive. This is like the first positive thing I've seen you be positive about any treatment in my time here, other than minoxidil. You've mostly had bad luck otherwise. If S-equol works for you, then that's wonderful news.

 

[Georgie]

I'm in the process of checking out from this forum, but I'm logging in to say that it's nice to see you write something positive. This is like the first positive thing I've seen you be positive about any treatment in my time here, other than minoxidil. You've mostly had bad luck otherwise. If S-equol works for you, then that's wonderful news.

If equol works for me, we might as well call it the messiah.

 

[whatevr]

You are quoting a study that was based on a 13 yr old boy, and an 11yr old boy and girl that had a DEFICIENCY in 5AR2 causing developmental problems. Thyroid replacement NORMALIZED this very important pubertal enzyme.

Did they go BALD after getting this NORMALIZED? Are we 11yr olds with a 5AR2 DEFICIENCY? Is it proven that having hypothyroidism in a 40yr old man or woman does anything for hair based on that study? NO.

Once again, hair loss is more complicated than serum hormones, it has to do with actual enzyme expression in the follicles and scalp skin as well as an inflammatory cascade. A healthy thyroid is good for hair and good for your health. Claiming it is bad for your hair is ridiculous.

Lack of adequate thyroid hormones affects every single cell of your body. I don't know why it's so incomprehensible for you to assume that in all likelihood, 5-AR2 was reduced inside of their scalp follicles as well. Just because the only thing measured was the serum levels, that does not mean that is the only place where there was a change.

 

[Retinoid]

Lack of adequate thyroid hormones affects every single cell of your body. I don't know why it's so incomprehensible for you to assume that in all likelihood, 5-AR2 was reduced inside of their scalp follicles as well. Just because the only thing measured was the serum levels, that does not mean that is the only place where there was a change.

That study has no relevance to adults. Thyroid hormone RESTORED healthy amounts of 5AR2 as the children had a deficiency (and had physical issues due to it), in no way does it state thyroid hormone will increase 5AR2 unhealthily in hypothyroid people.

Did you read the study before posting it or did you just see hypothyroidism and 5AR2?

Do what you want. Maybe you should take radioactive iodine, may give you a full head of hair. Remember to post your results.

 

[whatevr]

in no way does it state thyroid hormone will increase 5AR2 unhealthily in hypothyroid people.

But it WILL increase it. 'healthily' or unhealthily. The study f*****g says that thyroid hormone increased 5ar levels to normal.

Did you read the study before posting it or did you just see hypothyroidism and 5AR2?.

Don't make me laugh.

Do you know what happens to people with normal 5AR who take Propecia?
Their 5AR and DHT drops and their hair loss slows

What happens to people who are 5AR deficient and have low DHT? Their hair loss will be slower than if it was normal. What happens when they increase their 5AR and DHT to normal? They will lose hair at a faster rate now, the same as a healthy person not taking Propecia.

It really isn't so hard to understand.

 

[Retinoid]

But it WILL increase it. 'healthily' or unhealthily. The study f*****g says that thyroid hormone increased 5ar levels to normal.



Don't make me laugh.

Do you know what happens to people with normal 5AR who take Propecia?
Their 5AR and DHT drops and their hair loss slows

What happens to people who are 5AR deficient and have low DHT? Their hair loss will be slower than if it was normal. What happens when they increase their 5AR and DHT to normal? They will lose hair at a faster rate now, the same as a healthy person not taking Propecia.

It really isn't so hard to understand.

You are extrapolating that thyroid hormone, which is the great regulator of the body, will be bad for a fully grown person's hair because it normalized 11yr olds 5AR. When 1-they are 11. 2-they were deficient in the enzyme. You are using it as support because you googled DHT and thyroid hormones and that study came up to prove your outrageous point where there is still no evidence that thyroid hormone has direct control over the dysfunctional DHT/receptor scalp environment of a balding adult. Key word, scalp environment. Hypothyroidism will actually CAUSE hair thinning on its own.

My main issue is that you claim a lot of outrageous things and post them and it is actually quite common on the internet which is why there is so much BS to shift through. A few things you have said:

"Letrozole shredded my hair line, I did not even take 1 full pill though"
"Raloxifene was not good for my hair, I only took it a couple of times though"
"Hypothyroidism is good for male pattern baldness, when my thyroid hormones are normal I start losing a lot more hair"

It is very annoying because again, makes finding information convoluted with people posting wild theories and impossible experiences.

 

[whatevr]

You are extrapolating that thyroid hormone, which is the great regulator of the body, will be bad for a fully grown person's hair because it normalized 11yr olds 5AR.

Uhh, no dude. I merely said having hypothyroidism lowers 5-AR and DHT, and reversing hypothyroidism restores normal levels of 5-AR and DHT.
Thyroid hormone in itself is not bad for anyone's hair (unless hyPERthyroid), it is only bad alongside Androgenetic Alopecia genetics in the sense that it stimulates production of androgens. Nobody is saying to destroy your thyroid gland to treat hair loss, so your radioactive iodine quip is nothing more than a strawman.

My main issue is that you claim a lot of outrageous things and post them and it is actually quite common on the internet which is why there is so much BS to shift through. A few things you have said:

"Letrozole shredded my hair line, I did not even take 1 full pill though"
"Raloxifene was not good for my hair, I only took it a couple of times though"
"Hypothyroidism is good for male pattern baldness, when my thyroid hormones are normal I start losing a lot more hair"

It is very annoying because again, makes finding information convoluted with people posting wild theories and impossible experiences.

It is unfortunate that my personal observations annoy you. Unfortunate for you, that is. If you're finding yourself triggered by my posts you can always kindly peruse the ignore function and not read any more of my annoying, broscientific posts. However, this isn't PubMed, and until it becomes mandatory to peer-review posts on the forum, I'm going to openly post my experiences while fully standing by what I said, regardless of who likes that and who doesn't

 

[sunchyme1]

f*****g yeah man!

i love hairloss fights

 

[sunchyme1]

I'm in the process of checking out from this forum, but I'm logging in to say that it's nice to see you write something positive. This is like the first positive thing I've seen you be positive about any treatment in my time here, other than minoxidil. You've mostly had bad luck otherwise. If S-equol works for you, then that's wonderful news.

are you going to another forum?

do you know if the other guys gone somewhere else to post?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

are you going to another forum?

do you know if the other guys gone somewhere else to post?

I don't know where the other guys have gone, but the conversation here is comatose, due to the recent bans and the lack of transparency in moderation. If you find a more active forum, send me a PM and I'll read it within a few weeks.