Dutasteride

[HairlossTalk]

This is confusing. Our source actually, unsolicited(ly) (is that a word? ) just emailed us yesterday stating that the US trials are still fully in swing, and it is the European trials that have been cancelled. In addition, our main source has stated the same.

We are following up with Glaxo to get the final word on this. Everyone seems to have a different "source", and none of the sources are saying the same things.

We'll let you know what we find out.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[paulo]

Should we consider this a final word about Duta´s efficacy in regrowing hairs? Should we assume that Duta is just a little better than Propecia and with more side effects? Very strange decision, like all Glaxo´s decisions.
I´m really confused. Any replys?
:?: :?:

 

[HairlossTalk]

Yes that statement also doesn't make sense. I'm not quite clear on the statement that they pulled the plug because people won't notice the difference. If anything, they pulled the plug because it's just plain not going to be safe for 24 year old men to be taking, and the side effects issue is going to outweigh its usefulness as a profit generator for the company as a hair loss treatment.

We'll let you know what Glaxo tells us.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[austin powers]

HairLossTalk.com:

When you talk to your "sources," please also ask them about Avodart's availability. Certainly it seems that a more definitive release date is surely available from somebody at Glaxo, and perhaps your contacts can and will provide some more insight.

Thanks.
AP

 

[Webbie]

Okay, I can't access the link for some reason...the page is not found, I'm guessing HairLossHelp.com is down for the time being.

However, we've already seen results of Duta's safety issues. There's no reason to assume the side effects would be any worse for hair loss sufferers in such trials. And if I remember correctly, the safety precautionary data was not anything too alarming..?? Remember that image of the man with a fairly good sized bald spot in the back of his head? After six months it was entirely and completely regrown. How can they say there was no "noticeable difference"? Sure, he may have been the best example...but stil...people would do a lot just to get half the result he did. I know for one that Propecia/Proscar hasn't done sh*t for me!

 

[HairlossTalk]

we've already seen results of Duta's safety issues. There's no reason to assume the side effects would be any worse for hair loss sufferers in such trials.

This is definitely up for debate. The dutasteride safety numbers are based on tests done on 60 to 90 year old men and its effect on their libido, erectile function, etc. That is a very different demographic than hair loss trials, which would involve 20-50 year old men. According to an article I recently read on Regrowth.com, the Dutasteride side effects incidence in 60-90 year olds was nearly double the incidence of Propecia 1mg involving 20-50 year olds. Imagine 20-50 year olds on Dutasteride, and you've got the potential for triple or quadruple the side effects. Maybe.

This is how many are looking at it in any case, and as Dr. Lee aptly pointed out recently, there is insufficient evidence that this drug is going to be safe for administration to younger hair loss sufferers at this time.

The bottom line is and always will be that we need the clinical data. I don't personally believe its a mystery as to why Glaxo is keeping the side effects numbers from the public for the time being.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Webbie]

HairLossTalk.com,

Yeah, I later noticed (after my post) that the age group for the Duta BPH trial was between 47 and 96. You're right, that's another league compared to 20-something's like myself. Do you really think Glaxo is hiding safety data from phases 1 and 2 of the hairloss trials? I'm agreeing that the effects of Duta on a younger body might be more severe than Propecia/Proscar. I would take it anyway, though...b/c I figure the effects would die down after prolonged usage, and for the sake that I want to keep my hair...without hair, there really won't be much of a need for libido in the first place.

 

[Webbie]

Also, HairLossTalk.com, could you do us a big favor and post any information you get from your sources at Glaxo? I'm really hoping HairLossHelp.com is wrong about the US trials being cancelled.

Thanks.

 

[paulo]

It´s really frustating what´s happening. We wait at least two years for a drug, we are ready to put our hands on it and have some hope and then, Boom, this fuckin drug is not safe and won´t be even tested for hair loss.
Glaxo is really smart. Why will they lose money and time doing the trials if they have idiots like us, that will put this sh*t into the mouth and show then the real side effects?
It´s a shame. Why is it so difficult to be sincere and show us the real numbers of this FDA process for BPH?

 

[RalphyWiggum]

and then, Boom, this fuckin drug is not safe and won´t be even tested for hair loss.

LOL, unbelievable!

They did not pull the plug on the phase III trials because the drug is unsafe! If the drug was unsafe it wouldn't be out for BPH...simple as that. This move is financially motivated period.

 

[Webbie]

It bothers all of us, guys. Chances are they cancelled the phase III trials for a combination of reasons. Or, maybe they didn't cancel them at all. Lots of rumors get floated about the Internet every day, and many of them are not true.

One thing about the safety issues of Duta that us Propecia/Proscar users might want to consider is that the effects may be lessened since we are accustomed to the latter. Do you think this a feasible excuse for a 22 yeard old like me to start taking Duta anyway?

 

[RalphyWiggum]

One thing to take into consideration is we don't know exactly who Farrel's source is and I'll tell you right now I am going to choose to not believe he/she until Glaxo comes out and actually confirms it.

Plus even if Farrel's source is correct there is still a lot more feasible explainations as to why they cancelled phase III trials than, "oh it's just not much better than propecia."

If you are having good results with pro/finasteride I reccomend you stick with that for at least another year (you know until we get some in field feedback from those who are jumping the gun and using it). I know a am going to wait at least six months.

 

[HairlossTalk]

If the drug was unsafe it wouldn't be out for BPH...simple as that. This move is financially motivated period.

Honestly, there is a direct correlation between side effects and profitability, especially when the side effects are sexually related, more prominent than Propecia, and a demographic of 20-50 year olds is the target market. So you're right that the move was financially motivated, but I think its possible, if not probable, that side effects are the major reason. Even if Farrel's source was correct to say that the reason was that it "wasnt much better than Propecia"... I feel that there was more to that sentence. Everything with drugs is looked at on a Risk to Benefit basis. Its one of the most motivating financial factors in whether to sell a drug or not. Its very possible that sentence was being repeated by others at Glaxo with the following slant: "People aren't going to consider it much better than Propecia if the side effects are worse".

Another reason I think the financial motivation is side effects related (at least in some capacity) is that even to this day, Merck representatives blame the lackluster profits on Propecia partially due to the social stigma it has for sexual side effects. Guys who don't even know how infrequent they are do not buy the drug because they've "heard" it can cause impotence. I am pretty confident this same issue is undoubtedly affecting the profitability forecasts for Dutasteride, especially when sexual side effects were double that of Propecia, in men who already have no sex drive.

Again this is just my opinion, and I hope I will find out I am wrong. Im doing my best to get some hard information on the topic.

To be completely honest, I would rather side effects be the issue. If Glaxo is saying its "not much better than Propecia", this implies lackluster performance, which would be a big let down. We've all been hoping its going to blow Propecia away. If side-effects was the reason for the comment, at least a large group of people would still be able to take it, because many just wont get the side effects. Id rather have some people seeing amazing results with higher risk of side effects, than to hear that it just doesn't work as well as we thought.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Webbie]

Great post, HairLossTalk.com. I wholeheartedly agree. I hope whatever issues Glaxo has with Duta to be side-effect related, esp. in terms of profitibability, or lack thereof, due to issues related to side effects. I am sure that a lot of us here at HairLossTalk.com will take Duta if it has an apparent performance advantage over Propecia. Then, when all of our co-workers notice the mop on our heads, they'll be wondering what drug we are taking in order to grow so much hair. At which point we can reply, "Sorry guys, but you thought you'd become impotent, forcing Glaxo Wellcome to stop hair loss trials...no Duta for you!"

 

[paulo]

In resume:

duta = a little better propecia (bye-bye hairline)
+ tits and impotence (bye-bye girls)

 

[RalphyWiggum]

LOL, This isn't Neo-Nazi Hairlosshell.com so I can't tell you to f*** OFF TROLL! 8O

If Avodart causes impotence you should definitely take it! The last thing we need is your offspring running around.

:lol:

 

[RalphyWiggum]

No it's just Kevin is actually a rationale person and if somebody is being an irrational prick he isn't going to keep you from calling them on it!

Also he let's arguments die a natural death.

 

[Peterock]

Bad logic

Why do you people think that dutasteride. and propecia causes impotence in younger people more than in older people? I would think that the likelihood of a 47-90 year old already having many factors affecting their sexual functions would already be fairly great.

Seriously, I really doubt that GSK would intentionally lie/misrepresent the data on people who have sexual dysfunction due to propecia/duta - it doesn't make a lot of legal sense. Same thing with the b**ch tit comments... pretty stupid on the company's part if they were lying. No drug is going to be released if it causes b**ch tits in say 5% of the population - unless it did sometehing amazing like cure terminal cancers. GSK has a rep to maintain and it wouldn't want to lose millions b/c of fuzzy math.

The moderator said it best: GSK is making a financially motivated decision due to the public's less than stellar interest in Propecia. It's hard to justify large case studies that cost millions for a product that is only 15-25% better than its predecessor (particularly when the predecessor isn't all that great to begin with).

Paolo - Kind of funny that Ralph Wiggum is making fun of you - do you at least see why? Maybe you should sit down and rationally learn as much as you can about biochem/DHT and the results these chemicals will actually have on your body if you're so worried.

"Ralph, the children are right for laughing at you." - Ms. Krabappel

 

[RalphyWiggum]

Peterrock,

You are right with everything you said except the efficacy part. At worst, Dutasteride is 37% more effective at best 50% and yes as far as regrowth goes that does say much since propecia's regrowth abilities are less than stellar.

What this does say is I've got something coming that will definitely maintain for roughly 95% of the people who take it (over a course of two years). I also believe it will not peak as quickly as Propecia and will not decline as quickly either. Finally I am going to go out on a limb and say you could start Duta (alone and nothing else) this christmas and at christmas 2012 your hair will not have gotten any worse. I would expect this to be the case for about 2 out 3 people who take this drug. Yes this all based on inferences but scientifically it is feasible.

The safety proflie for this drug is very close to finasteride's and that is impressive considering the amount of dht being inhibited here.

"I bent my wookie"

 

[Axon]

Fina = pretty good

Duta = considerably better

Hopefully, we'll all look like Ryu here in 2012.

I wonder if as Type 2 AR is reduced, Type 1 overcompensates to balance out? Hmmm....would that have any effect?