Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Quickstrike]

Well, looks like my Daro supply is stuck "In clearance process", instead of being delivered today.
Didn't think that would happen through FedEx.

Probably should wait a few more business days before I get Gang Luo to contact the Canadian authorities?

 

[Jonnyyy]

Well, looks like my Daro supply is stuck "In clearance process", instead of being delivered today.
Didn't think that would happen through FedEx.

Probably should wait a few more business days before I get Gang Luo to contact the Canadian authorities?

Na just send him an email, it took him like 6 hours to get them to release it, smart man.

 

[CuckedByChad]

@IdealForehead Do you think Daro has the ability to block strong androgens like Trenbolone, Masteron, Wintrol etc. from binding to the hair follicle? I really want to blast roids and regrow/maintain hair at the same time. I'm approaching mid 20's and I feel like time is running out for me. I can't afford to wait 6 months to see (slight) hair changes, and then possibly roid. I need it now. I'm running RU 100mg/day for now but am afraid that once I add in Trenbolone or other strong androgens it will not be strong enough and assume my hair will worsen. Doing fine on only Test (400mg/week) so far though.

 

[DavidsDome]

You will be running 2 dangerous experiments...
I assume you are aware of the dangers.
That being said...
Daro should be much stronger than RU.
Guessing if if will be strong enough to counter your steroid use is of course difficult to predict.

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead Do you think Daro has the ability to block strong androgens like Trenbolone, Masteron, Wintrol etc. from binding to the hair follicle? I really want to blast roids and regrow/maintain hair at the same time. I'm approaching mid 20's and I feel like time is running out for me. I can't afford to wait 6 months to see (slight) hair changes, and then possibly roid. I need it now. I'm running RU 100mg/day for now but am afraid that once I add in Trenbolone or other strong androgens it will not be strong enough and assume my hair will worsen. Doing fine on only Test (400mg/week) so far though.

Haha. You and me both man. It's something I've been thinking about since the moment I started. It's taken all my self restraint not to try to find out.

Issue with daro and muscles/steroids is you have to ride a fine line between too much or too little daro. Too much daro will definitely protect your hair against pretty much anything, but systemic absorption will also block androgen receptors at the muscles negating the steroids and impairing gains. Too little will obviously not stop the hair loss.

Fine balance to strike and it would take a lot of trial and error to figure out.

 

[ZenHead]

Haha. You and me both man. It's something I've been thinking about since the moment I started. It's taken all my self restraint not to try to find out.

Issue with daro and muscles/steroids is you have to ride a fine line between too much or too little daro. Too much daro will definitely protect your hair against pretty much anything, but systemic absorption will also block androgen receptors at the muscles negating the steroids and impairing gains. Too little will obviously not stop the hair loss.

Fine balance to strike and it would take a lot of trial and error to figure out.

Not going to lie, you are a brave dude for trying this out. This is some seriously interesting stuff, but pretty scary at the same time. How is your progress going man? Any sides or early results thus far?

 

[IdealForehead]

Not going to lie, you are a brave dude for trying this out. This is some seriously interesting stuff, but pretty scary at the same time. How is your progress going man? Any sides or early results thus far?

Thanks. It's going well. My NW3 level thinning is completely resolved, and I'm living in the purely NW1.5-2 range now. Nothing feels fast enough. But I can't complain. I'm still regrowing. And it's not been long. I've dropped the dose to 0.2% on the last batch with 2 mL in the evening after showering and 1 mL in the morning to the hairline. So that's ~6 mg per day.

The problem with hair regrowth is unless you are a massive gainer, it comes in so thin and weak and sparse it looks like the worst transplant in the history of the world. My hairline has fuzz to the NW1 and it's blatantly visible and feels like nice cushy short soft hair when you touch it. The areas don't feel remotely bald anymore, but they still look like sh*t. You have to be patient for months to see major changes in areas that were slick bald before.

Probably I'd be getting more gains if I had continued the oral minoxidil, but I barely take it anymore because my face already is looking like sh*t. Waiting for my new skin products discussed here.

Dry skin completely resolved. Eyes are still a bit dry but I'm chronically prone to that so I don't think I can blame this at this stage. To be honest, I have been contemplating it and I think RU is probably a big culprit for how my eyes got so dry in the past two years. Androgen deprivation is a known cause of dry eyes regardless of what agent you use.

To manage this, I got my hands on some testosterone gel and I'm putting it on my eyelids (and dick) based on this and this. Very much helps the eyes if I use it.

I'm debating getting a sperm test done in the future and if it is low, either reducing dosage further or adding HCG injections. HCG injections are commonly used when on steroids to help stimulate the testicles to keep producing sperm, although it's a voodoo science. I have no plans for children, but I regret not putting some sperm in the bank years ago before I started getting on all these treatments just in case, as in 10 years maybe that will change. Who knows.

 

[countjulian]

Thanks. It's going well. My NW3 level thinning is completely resolved, and I'm living in the purely NW1.5-2 range now. Nothing feels fast enough. But I can't complain. I'm still regrowing. And it's not been long. I've dropped the dose to 0.2% on the last batch with 2 mL in the evening after showering and 1 mL in the morning to the hairline. So that's ~6 mg per day.

The problem with hair regrowth is unless you are a massive gainer, it comes in so thin and weak and sparse it looks like the worst transplant in the history of the world. My hairline has fuzz to the NW1 and it's blatantly visible and feels like nice cushy short soft hair when you touch it. The areas don't feel remotely bald anymore, but they still look like sh*t. You have to be patient for months to see major changes in areas that were slick bald before.

Probably I'd be getting more gains if I had continued the oral minoxidil, but I barely take it anymore because my face already is looking like sh*t. Waiting for my new skin products discussed here.

Dry skin completely resolved. Eyes are still a bit dry but I'm chronically prone to that so I don't think I can blame this at this stage. To be honest, I have been contemplating it and I think RU is probably a big culprit for how my eyes got so dry in the past two years. Androgen deprivation is a known cause of dry eyes regardless of what agent you use.

To manage this, I got my hands on some testosterone gel and I'm putting it on my eyelids (and dick) based on this and this. Very much helps the eyes if I use it.

I'm debating getting a sperm test done in the future and if it is low, either reducing dosage further or adding HCG injections. HCG injections are commonly used when on steroids to help stimulate the testicles to keep producing sperm, although it's a voodoo science. I have no plans for children, but I regret not putting some sperm in the bank before I started getting on all these treatments just in case, as in 10 years maybe that will change. Who knows.

Do you think people on fina should be using T gel on their dicks?

 

[countjulian]

Haha. You and me both man. It's something I've been thinking about since the moment I started. It's taken all my self restraint not to try to find out.

Issue with daro and muscles/steroids is you have to ride a fine line between too much or too little daro. Too much daro will definitely protect your hair against pretty much anything, but systemic absorption will also block androgen receptors at the muscles negating the steroids and impairing gains. Too little will obviously not stop the hair loss.

Fine balance to strike and it would take a lot of trial and error to figure out.

What about creatine? I don't ever want to get on gear but one thing I've had to sacrifice since getting serious about my hair is creatine, which works great for me. Do you think daro at a reasonable dose would be able to negate the increased DHT levels?

 

[IdealForehead]

What about creatine? I don't ever want to get on gear but one thing I've had to sacrifice since getting serious about my hair is creatine, which works great for me. Do you think daro at a reasonable dose would be able to negate the increased DHT levels?

According to this, creatine increases DHT by 40%. Daro is scalable. There's no upper limit except that which gives you intolerable side effects or risks. It can be scaled up sufficiently to completely neuter you if you want.

So absolutely a bit of daro could counteract a 40% DHT rise. The challenge is finding the right dose and living with potential consequences.

Also not sure how creatine would affect DHT if you're on finasteride, which you're on. Probably not much of a rise at all on finasteride, but who knows.

 

[countjulian]

According to this, creatine increases DHT by 40%. Daro is scalable. There's no upper limit except that which gives you intolerable side effects or risks. It can be scaled up sufficiently to completely neuter you if you want.

So absolutely a bit of daro could counteract a 40% DHT rise. The challenge is finding the right dose and living with potential consequences.

Also not sure how creatine would affect DHT if you're on finasteride, which you're on. Probably not much of a rise at all, but who knows.

I figure I don't want to endanger my hair right now. I'm going to stay away from creatine for the time being. My plan is to get my hair to Norwood 2.5 and good thickness (my regrowth currently shows atleast the Norwood part is possible) on my current DHT targetting regime (oral fina, topical fina, saw palmetto and pumpkin seed extract) and then get a hair transplant with BHT to shore it up, and then hopefully assuming no one's gotten scalp cancer or seen their dick fall of on daro start daro and creatine at the same time. I am going to be conservative with daro so I want it more as maintenance.

 

[countjulian]

Also no one's touched on this but is this the cure for Androgenetic Alopecia? Seriously from what Ideal's reporting if no side effects become apparent it seems like we've actually found the cure.

 

[kawnshawn]

Also no one's touched on this but is this the cure for Androgenetic Alopecia? Seriously from what Ideal's reporting if no side effects become apparent it seems like we've actually found the cure.

For some it very well could be. The biggest problem is price. Results for something this powerful I believe all comes down to dose. People with very aggressive hair loss might need a decent dose which will cost a large amount in the long run.

 

[countjulian]

For some it very well could be. The biggest problem is price. Results for something this powerful I believe all comes down to dose. People with very aggressive hair loss might need a decent dose which will cost a large amount in the long run.

But if Merck or whoever has the patent gets it through phase 3 for prostate cancer and then turns around and does the same thing for hairloss the price would come down if it were manufactured on a wide scale. Once it became generic then it would be really affordable.

 

[Jonnyyy]

For some it very well could be. The biggest problem is price. Results for something this powerful I believe all comes down to dose. People with very aggressive hair loss might need a decent dose which will cost a large amount in the long run.

I believe RU is more expensive than this regardless of the dose. Also requires 2x the dose a day because of its half life.

 

[Jonnyyy]

@IdealForehead my shedding has either stayed the same or increased, I know it's been like 5 days but do you think this is a bad sign?

 

[countjulian]

@IdealForehead my shedding has either stayed the same or increased, I know it's been like 5 days but do you think this is a bad sign?

Too soon to tell dude, give it a month at least.

 

[SpaceInvader]

Been on it for over a week.

When I increased the dose to 12 mg (6+6) I think it helped with the itching? I didn't get something you would call a "breakthrough itch", but did get very few minor itches here and there. Don't know whether it's just me or whatever.

I'm dosing this along with Enza. I'm doing 30 mg Enza once everytime I make a new batch of Daro. I make Daro and Enza batches at the same time. The Daro batch would last me maybe three days depending on how much I dose.

I'm going to do 12 mg Daro everyday to see if I notice anything different. I'm even thinking of doing it in DMSO just to see if this is even penetrating or not. I haven't had any sides from neither Enza or Daro. I think it should be penetrating because I did feel a bit chest pain when I did RU, and that was with the standard 70/30 vehicle. I'm also not even using minoxidil or any other possible regrowth stimulant. I'm going to be adding Estrogel.

 

[kawnshawn]

@IdealForehead my shedding has either stayed the same or increased, I know it's been like 5 days but do you think this is a bad sign?

To early to tell. What's your dose and veichle?

 

[Jonnyyy]

To early to tell. What's your dose and veichle?

Ethanol/PG/Water .25%