Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Quickstrike]

Do you guys store your bulk powders, such as Darolutamide, in a sealed bag kept in the freezer?

Don't want this sh*t to go bad on me prematurely. $2k is a little on the pricey side.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Do you guys store your bulk powders, such as Darolutamide, in a sealed bag kept in the freezer?

Don't want this sh*t to go bad on me prematurely. $2k is a little on the pricey side.

Yep, it'll last you 3 years in the freezer. 5 grams should easily last you 2 years unless you're doing insanely high doses.

 

[whatevr]

Keep in mind a lot of people fail on RU, which may be due to inadequate dosage as I've discussed previously but might also be due to poor vehicle composition.

The problem with RU just like most anti-androgens is that it crosses the blood-brain barrier. At any dose that is effective for people with anything other than mild hair loss it will wreck your libido.

You have more of a chance of finding a favorable dosage with darolutamide than taking hundreds of miligrams of RU. If you're going to high-dose RU you might as well take Finasteride, you will have similar side effects.

 

[countjulian]

The problem with RU just like most anti-androgens is that it crosses the blood-brain barrier. At any dose that is effective for people with anything other than mild hair loss it will wreck your libido.

You have more of a chance of finding a favorable dosage with darolutamide than taking hundreds of miligrams of RU. If you're going to high-dose RU you might as well take Finasteride, you will have similar side effects.

Finasteride alters the makeup of your hormonal profile, RU doesn't. RU also has a much shorter half life and if applied topicals most of the RU molecules will bind to your hair follicles and not go into your bloodstream, in theory. Oral finasteride goes 100% into your bloodstream. That's not to sat RU couldn't cause sexual sides but in theory ot should be safer than fina.

 

[countjulian]

Where can we track the progress of the daro FDA trials?

 

[whatevr]

Finasteride alters the makeup of your hormonal profile, RU doesn't. RU also has a much shorter half life and if applied topicals most of the RU molecules will bind to your hair follicles and not go into your bloodstream, in theory. Oral finasteride goes 100% into your bloodstream. That's not to sat RU couldn't cause sexual sides but in theory ot should be safer than fina.

Whether you remove the hormone or block its receptor, the end result is the same - it won't exert its effect. Removing DHT and blocking AR is functionally almost the same thing. The only difference is that RU will only block androgens, Finasteride will also affect neurosteroids through 5-AR.

If an androgen receptor blocker gets into your brain it will lower your libido as well as cause other side effects, usually increased anxiety, decreased physical strength, lack of motivation. This is where Darolutamide has the advantage over almost all other anti-androgens. It will not get into the brain so in theory it should not cause such side effects.

In practice, the short half-life of RU doesn't stop it from causing side effects in my experience. That is only the half-life in the blood, by the way. When it binds to a receptor, it takes between 18-36 hours to clear, so if in those two hours of cruising around the blood it binds to an androgen receptor in your brain, then that's approximately how long it will be causing side effects. Again no sources, just personal observation.

I don't see the hype around RU at all. It's no longer developed, and few people can maintain on it. It's clearly poor, which is why people are searching for alternatives.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Any updates from you guys trying MDV or ODM? Any sides, shedding, stabilization, regrowth??

 

[Sanchez1234]

Any updates from you guys trying MDV or ODM? Any sides, shedding, stabilization, regrowth??

I havent restarted it yet. I still feel like its not completely out of my system (took last time 6 days ago) but it should be. Got chest pains from dutasteride after 3 months and developed gyno.
On daro i got it after 2 doses and after quitting it, the pain continued to get worse... so i upped my tamoxifen dose.

Will start tomorrow with 0.1mg in the eth/pg/water vehicle.

 

[Jonnyyy]

I havent restarted it yet. I still feel like its not completely out of my system (took last time 6 days ago) but it should be. Got chest pains from dutasteride after 3 months and developed gyno.
On daro i got it after 2 doses and after quitting it, the pain continued to get worse... so i upped my tamoxifen dose.

Will start tomorrow with 0.1mg in the eth/pg/water vehicle.

Dang is Gyno a side effect that is caused when a topical passes through the blood brain barrier?

 

[IdealForehead]

Dang is Gyno a side effect that is caused when a topical passes through the blood brain barrier?

The risk of gyno on daro seems to be incredibly small. Even for massive oral doses in the prostate cancer safety study reviewed earlier (100-900 mg twice daily), the risk was on par with dutasteride 0.5 mg daily.

So if you're using 5 mg daro topically to your scalp, the odds of developing true gynecomastia (clearly palpable enlarged breast tissue) is minimal.

All research I have read on gynecomastia suggests a drug requires ~2 months minimum use to create real gynecomastia. For example, even on high dose spironolactone, which is one of the strongest drugs for promoting gynecomastia on the planet, in the studies I believe it took 2 months before they saw the first cases of gyno. I think a lot of what people talk about on sites like this is psychosomatic.

I did a thorough review of gynecomastia risks from other different therapies here. The daro risk of gyno was posted earlier in the thread with the side effect tables. With high oral dosing it was only around ~2.6%.

 

[countjulian]

Not exactly. Anything taken orally goes through filtration processes.

True some of it ends in the liver and urine but the same is true of topicals.

 

[countjulian]

The risk of gyno on daro seems to be incredibly small. Even for massive oral doses in the prostate cancer safety study reviewed earlier (100-600 mg twice daily), the risk was on par with dutasteride 0.5 mg daily.

So if you're using 5 mg daro topically to your scalp, the odds of developing true gynecomastia (clearly palpable enlarged breast tissue) is minimal.

All research I have read on gynecomastia suggests a drug requires ~2 months minimum use to create real gynecomastia. For example, even on high dose spironolactone, which is one of the strongest drugs for promoting gynecomastia on the planet, in the studies I believe it took 2 months before they saw the first cases of gyno. I think a lot of what people talk about on sites like this is psychosomatic.

I did a thorough review of gynecomastia risks from different therapies here. The daro risk of gyno was posted earlier in the thread with the side effect tables, but I think with high oral dosing it was around ~2%.

Not gonna lie I really want Daro. I am going to wait for a few years to see what sides, if any, people get but I see myself on this at some point.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Not gonna lie I really want Daro. I am going to wait for a few years to see what sides, if any, people get but I see myself on this at some point.

You're lucky that you can say that, if I waited a few more years to try this I'd be a Norwood 5

 

[countjulian]

I actually have been thinking of that. I don't believe that

Why don't you believe that?

 

[IdealForehead]

I actually have been thinking of that. I don't believe that

The best study I have seen that helps clarify how topicals are absorbed/processed is the radioactive minoxidil study. Researchers gave men radioactive minoxidil to use on their hair. They then checked to see what happened to it.

41-45% of the minoxidil either washed off the scalp or ended up on the pillow. This is why I keep saying topical daro could be a major risk to pregnant women or children who share your house or bed.

And based on the amount that ended up in the men's urine (from systemic absorption), they approximated that topical minoxidil over the whole scalp would be equivalent systemic exposure to taking 2.4 to 5.4 mg orally a day.

So definitely it is fair to assume topicals will: (1) end up all over your house, and (2) absorb to some extent into the blood.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/article-abstract/545803

 

[Sanchez1234]

@IdealForehead why are you taking desloratine and not cetrizine?

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead why are you taking desloratine and not cetrizine?

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/degradation-of-cetirizine-in-alcohol-vehicles.66061/

 

[HairCook]

Well, what I like about finasteride orally is its sweet safety profile and that it also likely to hinder all other bad effects of dht like prostata cancer and acne. Sadly, ppl only dickride the sideeffects of finasteride.

Take care guys, you are playing after all with an anti-androgen which has been made to fight cancer in patients where castration didnt even help.

 

[IdealForehead]

Well, what I like about finasteride orally is its sweet safety profile and that it also likely to hinder all other bad effects of dht like prostata cancer and acne. Sadly, ppl only dickride the sideeffects of finasteride.

Take care guys, you are playing after all with an anti-androgen which has been made to fight cancer in patients where castration didnt even help.

Agreed. People strongly underrate the positive effects of antiandrogens eg. Against enlarged prostate and prostate cancer, possible skin anti aging effect.

If I could use finasteride I would prefer it in a heartbeat. But 5 alpha reductase inhibitors don't work on me (neither finasteride nor dutasteride) so androgen receptor antagonists are my only option.

 

[HairCook]

Agreed. People strongly underrate the positive effects of antiandrogens eg. Against enlarged prostate and prostate cancer, possible skin anti aging effect.

If I could use finasteride I would prefer it in a heartbeat. But 5 alpha reductase inhibitors don't work on me (neither finasteride nor dutasteride) so androgen receptor antagonists are my only option.

Yeah, I would also love to have another topical anti-androgen that just kills all the dht locally to 99.99%. Then we probably would not have to look for a PGD2 antagonist either. Did you try some pgd2 inhibitor already?

Nonetheless, I am super curious to see your results!