Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Georgie]

Has any forum person tried this? Can't say I'm too impressed by the photos.

Good reddit post. Though nothing us hard core hair loss talkers didn't know already, except that the conference has been opened to everyone. Hadn't heard that myself. The people are really thirsty for something legit.

If it legit regrows 5 years of hairloss, then it’s worth staying tuned. That would mean a full recovery for me.

 

[Georgie]

Has any forum person tried this? Can't say I'm too impressed by the photos.

Good reddit post. Though nothing us hard core hair loss talkers didn't know already, except that the conference has been opened to everyone. Hadn't heard that myself. The people are really thirsty for something legit.

I am going to. Look it’s a possible 15%+ increase in density after 6-18 sessions. That could mean a normal head of hair for me.

 

[SteveTabernack]

If it legit regrows 5 years of hairloss, then it’s worth staying tuned. That would mean a full recovery for me.

I am going to. Look it’s a possible 15%+ increase in density after 6-18 sessions. That could mean a normal head of hair for me.

5 years would take me back to 18! Now my loss was already going there, but I would be over the moon to get back to that ha. However, the 5 year thing is such a weird and arbitrary claim. I'm optimistic it's gonna be solid though. Really really hope the upcoming conference will give us an idea on just how effective (or not effective) it's gonna be.

Sure, I could definitely do with some density. But the recession is by far my biggest enemy. Injecting one's own scalp is definitely taking it to the next level.. you're gonna have to make a full-on guide if anything comes of it

 

[Georgie]

5 years would take me back to 18! Now my loss was already going there, but I would be over the moon to get back to that ha. However, the 5 year thing is such a weird and arbitrary claim. I'm optimistic it's gonna be solid though. Really really hope the upcoming conference will give us an idea on just how effective (or not effective) it's gonna be.

Sure, I could definitely do with some density. But the recession is by far my biggest enemy. Injecting one's own scalp is definitely taking it to the next level.. you're gonna have to make a full-on guide if anything comes of it

It comes with a guide. I’ve got the PDF on my laptop which I’ll post when I get home later.

The 5 year thing is an odd claim to throw out there. It’s also a very bold claim to make given that this in an entirely organic product, and we’ve seen next to no real results with natural treatments in Androgenetic Alopecia before. If it comes it, i was would definitely like to try it, but I hold very few hopes of it being the saviour. I reserve that faith for tsuji, Follicum, Histogen... stem cells in general.

 

[SteveTabernack]

It comes with a guide. I’ve got the PDF on my laptop which I’ll post when I get home later.

The 5 year thing is an odd claim to throw out there. It’s also a very bold claim to make given that this in an entirely organic product, and we’ve seen next to no real results with natural treatments in Androgenetic Alopecia before. If it comes it, i was would definitely like to try it, but I hold very few hopes of it being the saviour. I reserve that faith for tsuji, Follicum, Histogen... stem cells in general.

I get the skepticism. I've just seen enough good signs to make me think this could actually be an effective product (not a full on cure mind you). But yeah, it does seem nothing short of unbelievable that after all this time it's gonna be the Italians that save us with some cosmetic product. Maybe I just really want it to be true, because I'm beyond fucked if it's a second coming of Applemets...

 

[aj218]

Looking at this thread, Daro doesn't look promising in the slightest.

Like on paper it should work but most of you seem like you're shedding with no regrowth.

Are you guys are sure it isn't drug-induced telogen effluvium because this is meant to be quite a powerful drug?

 

[IdealForehead]

Looking at this thread, Daro doesn't look promising in the slightest.

Like on paper it should work but most of you seem like you're shedding with no regrowth.

Are you guys are sure it isn't drug-induced telogen effluvium because this is meant to be quite a powerful drug?

You'd have to keep in mind this thread is full of all the rejects who have failed every other therapy known to man and likely have uniquely complicating factors.

For example in my case I failed on finasteride and dutasteride. Probably 99% of guys succeed on one of those two. So that puts me in the freakshow 1%.

Daro is working fine for me exactly as expected. I had 2-3 months of Telogen Effluvium and then no more shedding, as expected for anti-androgenic therapy of androgenic alopecia. That's the same timeline people usually get on finasteride and dutasteride. I can only guess at what complicating factors have led to other people's issues.

People probably shouldn't be using this at all. I have only posted to learn from others and share my experience in case anyone finds it interesting.

 

[Georgie]

You'd have to keep in mind this thread is full of all the rejects who have failed every other therapy known to man and likely have uniquely complicating factors.

For example in my case I failed on finasteride and dutasteride. Probably 99% of guys succeed on one of those two. So that puts me in the freakshow 1%.

This is called "selection bias" where by nature of the therapy it is drawing all the hardest and most abnormal cases.

Probably some people are giving up during their Telogen Effluvium. That's everyones risk to take when they're shedding at the start of a new therapy - wait it out or give up. No one can ever truly know the right thing to do. But with any drug the usual advice is to wait 6-12 months before passing judment. Eg. Finasteride.

Daro is working fine for me exactly as expected. I had 2-3 months of Telogen Effluvium and then no more shedding, as expected for anti-androgenic therapy of androgenic alopecia. Thats the same timeline people usually get on finasteride and dutasteride. I can only guess at what complicating factors have led to other people's issues.

Looking at this thread, Daro doesn't look promising in the slightest.

Like on paper it should work but most of you seem like you're shedding with no regrowth.

Are you guys are sure it isn't drug-induced telogen effluvium because this is meant to be quite a powerful drug?

The man has a point about the people who are trialing this. We all seem to be the impossible cases.

 

[Georgie]

@SteveTabernack @whatevr

 

[IdealForehead]

Sgf57 results look comparable to standard PRP (10% increase in density) and the principle is the same too. Ie. Microneedling with application of growth factors.

Probably easier just to go for PRP if you want that approach/result in my opinion.

And @Georgie I wouldn't call you impossible until you have good normal hormone levels for at least 6 months first.

 

[whatevr]

Sgf57 results look comparable to standard PRP (10% increase in density) and the principle is the same too. Ie. Microneedling with application of growth factors.

Probably easier just to go for PRP if you want that approach/result in my opinion.

And @Georgie I wouldn't call you impossible until you have good normal hormone levels for at least 6 months first.

I doubt it. This should be similar in contents to Cellcurin, and both of these contain the same growth factors as used in this study I posted:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...or-enhancement-of-human-hair-regrowth.112436/

I've never seen results like that with PRP (which is garbage IMO). Technically speaking EVERY regrowth treatment (including antiandrogens and estrogen especially) works by boosting these very same growth factors down the line. You can skip the hormonal modifications and just inject these straight up. Now maybe there are a few more that need to be added to this mix to achieve supreme regrowth, but I'd say this is pretty much the best regrowth cocktail there is right now.

 

[IdealForehead]

I doubt it. This should be similar in contents to Cellcurin, and both of these contain the same growth factors as used in this study I posted:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...or-enhancement-of-human-hair-regrowth.112436/

I've never seen results like that with PRP (which is garbage IMO). Technically speaking EVERY regrowth treatment (including antiandrogens and estrogen especially) works by boosting these very same growth factors down the line. You can skip the hormonal modifications and just inject these straight up. Now maybe there are a few more that need to be added to this mix to achieve supreme regrowth, but I'd say this is pretty much the best regrowth cocktail there is right now.

Study results for that specific therapy are listed here:

http://www.imediway.com/treatments

"Phototrichogram showed 9.85% increase in hair density and 9.11% increase in hair thickness."

Here's an example of a small PRP study's outcome:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134641/

"A significant reduction in hair loss was observed between first and fourth injection. Hair count increased from average number of 71 hair follicular units to 93 hair follicular units. Therefore, average mean gain is 22.09 follicular units per cm2."

I would rather go through a standard course of PRP. I like approaches with broader mechanisms of action and PRP likely involves more growth signals being triggered from the complexity of plasma vs a chemical approach like this with only one growth factor.

Granted PRP usually involves 3-6 treatments and the growth factor one is a single treatment.

Still I think this is all kind of similar and the max results should all be in the same range. Im not saying it isn't useful. I think PRP is useful and so probably is this. I've done PRP before and will be running another round of PRP in 2 months once my scalp has finished healing.

I guess it depends to an extent on which is more cost effective.

 

[Georgie]

I doubt it. This should be similar in contents to Cellcurin, and both of these contain the same growth factors as used in this study I posted:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...or-enhancement-of-human-hair-regrowth.112436/

I've never seen results like that with PRP (which is garbage IMO). Technically speaking EVERY regrowth treatment (including antiandrogens and estrogen especially) works by boosting these very same growth factors down the line. You can skip the hormonal modifications and just inject these straight up. Now maybe there are a few more that need to be added to this mix to achieve supreme regrowth, but I'd say this is pretty much the best regrowth cocktail there is right now.

I have combed through quite a few of the growth factor products that are on the market right now, and indeed there is a reason why i have settled or this. Cellcurin is mostly vitamins and lacks quite a few of the factors that agf-39 and sgf-57 include (the only difference between these last two is that sgf contains stem cell factors and agf doesn't). @IdealForehead PRP is very different. Growth factors are included yes, but prp for the most part is just your own blood centrifuged and then reinjected back into your head, and sometimes Acell is involved. PRP for the most part yields shitty results. This is why i haven't even considered it as an option. The reason i am going for this particular growth factor blend as @whatevr points out, is that it is exactly what successful hormone therapy should do but without the sides, and having to go throuhj the shitty process of seeing if it will actually work in the first place. Estrogen especially activates the release of VEGF, and so many of the other bit-part treatments being used are all presuming it works, is made redundant by sgf. If nothing else, its work a try, and far less expensive than PRP.

 

[IdealForehead]

I have combed through quite a few of the growth factor products that are on the market right now, and indeed there is a reason why i have settled or this. Cellcurin is mostly vitamins and lacks quite a few of the factors that agf-39 and sgf-57 include (the only difference between these last two is that sgf contains stem cell factors and agf doesn't). @IdealForehead PRP is very different. Growth factors are included yes, but prp for the most part is just your own blood centrifuged and then reinjected back into your head, and sometimes Acell is involved. PRP for the most part yields shitty results. This is why i haven't even considered it as an option. The reason i am going for this particular growth factor blend as @whatevr points out, is that it is exactly what successful hormone therapy should do but without the sides, and having to go throuhj the shitty process of seeing if it will actually work in the first place. Estrogen especially activates the release of VEGF, and so many of the other bit-part treatments being used are all presuming it works, is made redundant by sgf. If nothing else, its work a try, and far less expensive than PRP.

Bottom line is the results are not significantly better than PRP as per their own studies:

"The efficacy was evaluated after 10 times of treatment within 6 months. In total 116 patients, aged between 19 and 60 years, were enrolled.

Results: Phototrichogram showed 9.85% increase in hair density and 9.11% increase in hair thickness."

I'm not sure what the cost is for 10 treatments with this stuff but either way it's not yielding mega results on average. Like all therapies there are gonna be the lucky high responders, so it's worth a try even just to find out of you're one of them.

And if it's cheaper than PRP then sure it makes sense.

Personally I consider treatments like these adjuncts at best. Finding the right chemical soup for your oral daily ingestion and/or topical daily application is far more likely to yield a long term fix to the problem. The problems that cause hair loss are usually there 24/7. Doing a single "session" of any treatment once a month or so is not likely to make a dramatic difference in the course of such a condition.

Again I'm not saying these approaches aren't useful. I'm still planning more PRP for myself because I'll take any further growth stimulation and increased density I can get. I just mean to suggest they should be kept in perspective.

 

[Georgie]

I have a hilarious story to tell.

It’s entitled “my 60 year old mother started using minoxidil in January and now has more hair than me”.

Doesn’t have Androgenetic Alopecia. No pattern. Just age. Now she f*****g has more hair than her almost 25 year old daughter.

 

[Georgie]

So this is how hormone sensitive I am. I have been applying estriol cream to my face and hairline for four days and starting last night I have begun sporadically bleeding. Awesome.

 

[IdealForehead]

So this is how hormone sensitive I am. I have been applying estriol cream to my face and hairline for four days and starting last night I have begun sporadically bleeding. Awesome.

Buy in bulk? Sounds like you're gonna need them.

But seriously I take your oversensitivity as a good sign as it suggests your hormonal balance truly is an absolute trainwreck right now if that's all it takes.

I think you know you're gonna have to push through and get it done at one time or another. Since nothing else has worked for your hair and you're losing large amounts i don't think you can wait longer.

So I would suggest you try to keep in mind why youre doing it and try to push through. Like you've said , it's not going to be fun when you stop the Diane. But you can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long.

(Rip the bandaid off, pain and inconvenience are temporary, etc.)

 

[whatevr]

The estriol is gonna have to be balanced with (bioidentical) estradiol and progesterone to achieve a normal hormonal profile, otherwise things like what you mentioned are going to happen.

 

[Georgie]

The estriol is gonna have to be balanced with (bioidentical) estradiol and progesterone to achieve a normal hormonal profile, otherwise things like what you mentioned are going to happen.

Oh no, it would happen regardless. Any shift in sex hormones that i experience yields bleeding. It's always been a good indicator that something is having a systemic affect. When i switch to estradiol/prometrium i will bleed heavily probably for months and months. Regardless of whether or not it's estrogenic, if it causes fluctuation, my ovaries freak out.

 

[whatevr]

Oh no, it would happen regardless. Any shift in sex hormones that i experience yields bleeding. It's always been a good indicator that something is having a systemic affect. When i switch to estradiol/prometrium i will bleed heavily probably for months and months. Regardless of whether or not it's estrogenic, if it causes fluctuation, my ovaries freak out.

Similarly, any shift in hormones that I make causes me to shed over a thousand hairs in a mere week.