Final Thoughts
Okay guys, looks like this is it for me. I've been off the orals at least a week now and my hair is still rapidly growing back. I'm now at what would be likely termed by most a "NW1.5" on both sides. And I have fuzz which continues to thicken to my NW1. It doesn't appear to be slowing at all. I don't think it would be humanly possible to be recovering hair faster than I have been over the past two months.
At this point, I have already recovered enough hair in the past two months (starting from a deep NW2 with thinning to NW3) that I have nothing further to worry about regarding hair loss. Even if I didn't get another single follicle back I would be fine based on the contour of the incisions that will happen during my forehead reduction (for a large forehead I was born with) which is pending.
So that's it for me. My hair anxiety is dead. I have a bit of anxiety about my surgery and need to make sure the expansion goes as planned, we aim for the right target, and the scarring is minimal, but other than that, I now know I will not lose more hair. Ever. I consider my hair loss functionally cured. I expect to hit my full NW1 within the next 2-3 months at this rate. Though even this is unnecessary for me.
It feels like an enormous weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I have struggled with failed and half failed treatments for 4 years. To finally find some things that have worked and worked well has been life changing. It's time for me to stop thinking about hair so much and focus on my pending surgery as well as all the things I have been neglecting in my personal life. eg. I have a pile of bills next to me I haven't paid for two months. Not because I don't have the money, but because all my mental energy has been going into hair. It's time to get back to my hobbies and living my life.
So I will share my final thoughts on all of this here.
Recipes
I have been playing with multiple variants of ways to mix darolutamide. I have been mixing 20 mL at a time, and applying 2 mL twice a day, so this is every 5 days. I will likely go back to my usual approach of mixing 40 mL at a time (every 10 days) soon but right now this is fine for me.
Kirkland Minoxidil Base
This is by far the easiest approach. It means starting with Kirkland minoxidil and just adding ingredients to that.
18 mL 5% Kirkland minoxidil
2 mL DMSO
Custom Base
I do not intend to stay on minoxidil long term as it is making my face look like sh*t, so I will be returning to my custom base very soon. Propylene glycol does not particularly irritate me, though I have tried to stay away from it in principle due to it being a known irritant. Propanediol and dipropylene glycol are suggested by many skin sites to be less irritating, but they dissolve less minoxidil (max ~3.5% final solution concentration).
This I have been mixing as follows:
10 mL propanediol (or propylene glycol, or dipropylene glycol)
6 mL 94%+ ethanol
2 mL water
2 mL DMSO
Actives
I have been adding the following actives to these 20 mL volumes of base:
100 mg
darolutamide (0.5%) - Source: Luo from Chengdu, tested once and correct.
1.5 g
RU58841 (7.5%) - Sources: Kane, Xi'An Lyphar, Purity Prod - testing of all pending.
1 g
niacinamide (5%) - source: Herbstoreusa.com
0.7 g
minoxidil (3.5%) - Source: Xi'an Lyphar, tested once and correct (only needs to be added to 'custom base', as Kirkland already has minoxidil in it)
(200 mg
desloratadine (1%) - Source: Geekee Biochem, I will be adding this in the next few weeks, currently in the mail)
Darolutamide Concentration
As I posted in another thread, darolutamide 0.1% will likely beat 5% RU58841, so anything above that is likely sufficient. I have been using 0.5% as I am interested in maximum affordable results. Already this is costing me a fortune, but I can manage it, so that is why I chose that percent.
A 1-2% darolutamide solution would likely be stronger than any topical anti-androgen in existence and probably impractical to be bothered with making.
I think 0.1-0.5% or at max 1% are probably the useful darolutamide concentration ranges, and I may play within that range in the future. I may drop RU58841 altogether down the road, as although daro has a longer serum half life it does not cross the blood brain barrier and thus I think it may be cleaner as a drug, though I am not actually sure. Perhaps the shorter half life of RU makes RU cleaner. Can't really say at this point. So I will probably just play with the doses of each to see what I feel over time.
Why Topical Anti-Androgens are Theoretically Superior to Oral
If I was starting with hair loss and I was an average guy, I would still just start with finasteride & minoxidil, as this has a 94% of significant regrowth and a >90% chance of no significant side effects.
But there are several reasons topical anti-androgens are theoretically superior to oral.
Side effects
The first and primary reason is that we don't need androgen blockade through our entire body - just our scalp. In principle, using a focal topical anti-androgen will reduce the risk of systemic side effects for obvious reasons.
Powerful oral anti-androgens like spironolactone and cyproterone are horrible to take. I can't say what it feels like to take finasteride and dutasteride, since they don't do anything to my body at all (like taking sugar pills for me). But I can say I feel immensely better off spironolactone/cypro than on them. Even after just a week. Orals work, but they can be unpleasant.
Potency
The second and more important reason is that standard oral treatments like finasteride are limited in their effectiveness by definition of how they work.
Finasteride 1 mg daily only reduces scalp DHT by at most 64%. (ref) Other studies have suggested less, and that dutasteride has a roughly equivalent scalp effect. Neither finasteride nor dutasteride affect testosterone levels. Testosterone binds to the androgen receptor with 1/3 to 1/5 the affinity of DHT.
So with finasteride or dutasteride, you have ~64% reduction in DHT binding and zero reduction in testosterone binding. Is it any wonder some guys can't reverse the miniaturization of their follicles when this is the maximal effect of these medications? There are still plenty of androgens (both DHT & test) to continue to inhibit your recovery!
By contrast, a high dose topical anti-androgen formulation (like RU58841 5-10% and or darolutamide 0.1-0.5% 2 mL twice daily) can conceptually block and inhibit all your androgen receptors, against both test and DHT.
The potential effectiveness is much greater! At a minimum, it suggests that guys getting inadequate results on finasteride or dutasteride would likely benefit from a topical anti-androgen, although as I will discuss next, this is not possible to generally recommend for various reasons.
Also, this comparison is premised on the idea that topical antiandrogens aren't getting too rapidly "washed away" from the dermal papilla by blood flow, which we don't know for sure. If a topical anti-androgen gets washed away too quickly or rapidly, then it will of course be ineffective. So although topical anti-androgens can in theory be more effective and less side effect prone, that is only if they remain bound for long periods or there is a scalp "reservoir" of chemical to maintain the blockade.
Why You Still Shouldn't Actually Use Topical Antiandrogens
The biggest problem with topical anti-androgens is we have none that are truly approved for topical use. RU58841 is an experimental compound with almost no studies in humans and no long term safety studies. Darolutamide has not even been approved yet for prostate cancer, there are zero studies for its topical use in humans, and there is no long term safety data. Even once darolutamide does become approved for prostate cancer, it will be a powerful prescription drug and you will not likely see doctors prescribing it topically for hair use.
For all we know long term RU or daro use could lead to unknown problems like heart failure or cancers from their metabolic breakdown products. I don't think that's likely, but the point is no one really knows.
Even worse, in order to obtain these anti-androgens for topical use, you must currently obtain them from factories in China. This is a bad idea for many reasons. The primary of which is you don't know what you are getting. I have been getting my compounds tested by NMR and mass spec, but even then, there are risks. Let's say you have a 99% purity compound, but because this is unregulated, what if the 1% impurity is something dangerous? It takes a lot of testing to figure this out. And do you test every batch for the rest of your life? What if you get a bad batch?
The other big problem with topical anti-androgens is that they could potentially pose risks to others around you. Minoxidil studies showed that half of what a man applies to his scalp will end up on his pillow at night. Most likely the same would apply for a topical like daro or RU. Topical anti-androgens can have implications and risks for those who are living with you in general.
What happens if you're sharing your bed with a pregnant spouse? How much is going to transfer to her? How much will transfer if she runs her hand through your hair? How much will transfer over time from you leaning your head on the couch each day? How much are you going to spread around the house when your daro/RU soaked hair sheds naturally through the day all over the house? And perhaps she's the one who cleans it up? How much gets spread around your bathroom each day from your application process and handling things with your contaminated hands?
What happens to the fetus if they are exposed to low levels of anti-androgens through pregnancy? What if you have small children in the house and they are similarly exposed to low levels of powerful anti-androgens as they grow and eventually progress through puberty?
You could really end up f*****g things up. I live alone. I wash my hands a lot. I don't touch my hair during the day. So this doesn't apply to me. But it could apply to a lot of guys.
So I want to be very clear: I have experimented with these topical anti-androgens because from my perspective I had no choice. finasteride and dutasteride didn't work for me, and cypro/spironolactone were intolerable. But I do not in any way recommend anyone else does this.
If you haven't read the site's disclaimer, now would be a good time.
I am posting this to share my experience and for academic interest, not to recommend anyone follow my footsteps. To the contrary, I recommend no one does this. Perhaps if a researcher reads this, it may be helpful to them, as I think a clinical trial of topical darolutamide would be very helpful to the hairloss community.
Thanks
As a last note, I just want to say I appreciate all the support and positive attitude from this site. The moderators do a wonderful job of keeping discussions productive. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this and every other discussion we've had. I've learned an enormous amount, and I hope my posts have been informative too.
If it weren't for sites like this, I would still be balding and feeling depressed, suicidal, and hopeless over it. And instead, I'm growing back hair and I have great hope for the future.
I still have a few unrelated things I want to post about on this site before disappearing completely. But as my problem is essentially solved from my perspective, this is the beginning of the end for my contributions to the site and participation here.
I wish you guys all the best and good luck with things as well. I hope we can all beat this disease. There is no better feeling than when you are winning.