Confused by doctors (pics included)

[flat_pro]

Your views are just so wrong and outdated it amazes me.

One example of an NW6 to what will be a very convincing head of hair.

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/bl ... WebID=1206

All you do is insult people who disagree with you, and provide a very outdated viewpoint.

You don't answer any questions that are put to you and just try to shout louder then everyone else.

I don't bait you, I ask you to backup the statements you write. With MODERN evidence, not outdated views of your own experience with your mystery surgeon.

 

[flat_pro]

How much are you getting paid for "finder's fees" for new hair transplant patients? :shakehead:

I don't think I ever said NW6s get good density in that context, only that you can get good results as per having no hair, to having something that can look natural (see the link I posted earlier). Please don't miss quote me.

[quote="flat_pro":2zoshge9] herenomore, here is a good example of a NW6 from H&W. 7,000 grafts two ops and a very convincing coverage.

I would disagree. You can see a lot of good examples on NW6 hair transplant on this site . The ones with a higher number of grafts are quite good. You are never going to have a perfect hairline, true, but you can get good results.

I'm not mis-quoting you, you do a pretty good job of that yourself! :laugh:

[/quote:2zoshge9]

You are miss quoting me! I said you can get good results from a NW6 not that you can get a density of 70cm2. The quotes you put show that!.

I'M NOT A CONSTANT. Again, you are insulting people trying to win the argument with your outdated view.

Do you even look at the links I post to ACTUAL results? Or are they all lying aswell? At least they tell you the name of their surgeon.

Putting loads of smilies in your post makes it stand out more, but does not make it more accurate.

 

[flat_pro]

I have seen those pics on the links you have posted (and many, many more like them) LLLOOOOONNNNGGGGG before you ever did!

Again, you're talking to an old "hair transplant pro" here. I'm not some wanker who doesn't know sh*t about hair transplants. :whistle:

WHAT!

So everyone who disagrees with you is a wanker and wrong because you had a bad experience of a hair transplant and are an NW6. And it is impossible to get good results from an NW6 despite the links I have posted to GOOD results from many NW6 transplants, with around 7000 grafts as per what you had.

I think this sums up your viewpoint and shows how closed minded you are. I would advise everyone to read what dudemon says with a large pinch of salt. He is clearly very bitter about his experiences or everyone on the links I posted is lying (and you can find a lot NW6 transplants on the links I posted).

You can make your own mind up.

 

[flat_pro]

Nah, I'm not clicking on any links you post buddy. I'm afraid you do work for one of the hair transplant clinics or something (Jesus Christ you're enough of a shill) that you mave have an IP tracer set up to find out my identity or something.

IAM NOT A CONSULTANT. STOP LYING AND USING PERSONAL INSULTS AGAINST ME.

 

[flat_pro]

Hey you are the one who came on here and started posting all kinds of links to hair transplant clinics. FYI, I haven't lied one bit. You are the one who started the whole "let me get dudemon riled up, so he'll insult me, then I can expose how rude he is" game buddy.

WHAT! You ASKED me to post links to backup my views. I have done so to INDIVIDUALS blog posts on another site (where there are over 800 blogs!!!!). As well as surgeon posted results as you can SORT by Norwood scale and view more close ups. And I actually posted a link to H&W when I had my surgery with Rahal fyi.

You have posted no evidence of ANYTHING apart from your own views. A modern hair transplant is so different to what you are describing.

I have NOT started anything, you just insult me when I disagree with you and ask you for actual proof that, for example 'every stip hair transplant leaves a large dona scar'. Or you can't have a hair transplant if you are an NW6. This may have been the case with your hair transplant surgeon, and hair transplants even a few years back, but I think the links I have posted show that is NOT THE CASE.

If you make a statement you should be able to back it up.

Do you even have a results thread?

 

[flat_pro]

No, I never asked you to post any links to back up any views. You took that upon yourself pal. Then you tried to make me do that, and I am not going to bother with it. So there.

....


My hair transplants were done by the latest and greatest hair transplant strip technology available TODAY, and I know pefectly well what I am talkng about. You apparently don't.

Again PERSONAL views with no evidence. You can't argue as you HAVE NO EVIDENCE only 'I know everything and I talk to the top hair transplant surgeons'. That means nothing. A lot of hair transplant surgeons say they can't / won't do NW6 as they can't do the mega-sessions with high graft survival rate, thats my opinion.

You DID ask me to provide proof to what I'm saying. And I did that through posting links. NOT with WORD but PICTURES.

You had your hair transplant done in 2007! Three years ago, how is that today? Cosmetic surgery advances with the experience of the surgeon, I'm sure that even a result by the same doctor three years later would be better as they get more experience.

I recommend that people look through the links I posted TO INDIVIDUAL AND INDEPENDENT hair transplant BLOGS and make up their own mind if I'm right or dudemon is. I think we can both agree to that.

Maybe it would help if dudemon could post the link to his results thread, along with the details of his hair transplant so you can SEE both sides of the argument.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Let's keep things on topic guys.


Thanks

 

[andrei_eremenko]

after seeing the little movies...maybe dudemon is wrong...but in your place flat_pro I would post a pic with your scar...and...dudemon...being in your 40 I know you have a good experience in hair loss problem but no offense you are a little bit imature...seriously no offense...i am agree that hair transplant is not for everyone and especially for young people...but you are not agree with nothing...anything is wrong at you...a hairpiece...a scar...the coverage of hair transplant...nothing seems to work in your opinion...I am wondering why did you had so many hair transplant then?

hair transplant is really tricky...and You can achieve good results if you are after 30 years old...and respond well to treatment and and no more than norwood 4...I am not agree also with flat_ pro...at 23 geting an hair transplant...it has no guarantee that he can stop the hair loss at this age...take care guys and good luck with future hair transplants!

 

[flat_pro]

but in your place flat_pro I would post a pic with your scar..

hair transplant is really tricky...and You can achieve good results if you are after 30 years old...and respond well to treatment and and no more than norwood 4...I am not agree also with flat_ pro...at 23 geting an hair transplant...it has no guarantee that he can stop the hair loss at this age...take care guys and good luck with future hair transplants!

In my next picture update in a few weeks I will post pics of my scar, I will need someone to take them for me really and don't have anyone to do it currently.

I guess only time will tell about my results, but I'm confident, that this op maybe another and new treatments (not cloning) will enable me to have the results I desire. I'm particularity looking forward to Histogen hair complex treatments. The phase one clinical trail looks promising, even though they were only for safety etc. Again, don't take my word for it, judge for yourself.

http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm#22

 

[flat_pro]

dudemon, I think you will find that YOU started by insulting me and calling me names, as you continue to do! Do you expect me not to respond when you do this?

I would generally like to see your results. You have only ever stated that you won't post the name of your doctor, and as far as I can remember have never said you won't/haven't posted your results.

I don't think there is any excuse for calling me mentally impaired. I have done nothing but ask you to backup your views with somekind of evidence.

I have only ever responded when you have insulted me or called me names, and have been trying to provide constructive advice.

I think we should leave it there and try to help the original poster.


Herenomore asked for some examples of other peoples hair transplant's so I have had time to find some posts of NW4+ with good results.

I have used the HTN blogs as they are really quick to search through and there are lots of them. Again, I do hope it is okay to post them. People don't start a blog knowing what the results will be like, the same as a thread, but just posted to show people their progress etc.... So the argument that people only post good results is false. I think they are a good indication of real life results.

Herenomore, here is a blog from a surgeon I have never heard of in Germany. He mentioned his donar scar in his early posts, but then said it became undetectable. He stated he was an NW5, and I think with just 3600 grafts from an op done in 2007 you can really see you what can be done. He said he had 50 grafts in his hairline then reduced the density as he went back. This is basically what I had done.

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/bl ... &WebID=371

I think this one is as extreme as you can get. With almost 6000 grafts his coverage area was massive. And density low as a result. It will be interesting to see if he has another OP, and how much donar he has left, and if his coverage thickens up in the next few months. You can make up your own mind if you think having this density is worth it. But it shows you the what a large area at low density looks like. And I would guess is similar to dudemon hair transplant. But this guy had one op and 6k.

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/bl ... WebID=1295

This guy has similar hair loss to you I think and he is Asian. He had his surgery with Rahal, so I wasn't going to post it incase I'm accused of being a consultant again, but it's so similar to you I had to. Again make up your own mind, but I think it looks really good.

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/bl ... WebID=1419

 

[sergiotahini]

To be fair, that NW6 with the 6,000 grafts seems to prove dudemon's point; "coverage" perhaps, but a full head of hair it is not. If you're destined for a NW5 or NW6 it seems like your best bet would be to just shave it off or buy a wig.

Although if you're lucky enough to have above average donor density and scalp laxity it seems like you can get some pretty insane results. Check out this upper Norwood that got 10,000+ grafts:
http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_ga ... ype=normal
:freaked2:

 

[flat_pro]

To be fair, that NW6 with the 6,000 grafts seems to prove dudemon's point; "coverage" perhaps, but a full head of hair it is not. If you're destined for a NW5 or NW6 it seems like your best bet would be to just shave it off or buy a wig

Things tend to thicken up after the 6 month mark, I still think he will have something natural looking. And it looks far better then shaving it or when he started. Maybe another few thousand grafts on the front etc...

I don't think I ever said or implied you can get a full head of hair from an NW6, just something that looks natural and is better then when you started. I would describe that as a good result. And is far better then shaving it!



http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_ga ... l&nwScale=

http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_ga ... l&nwScale=

http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_ga ... l&nwScale=

http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_ga ... l&nwScale=

 

[Boondock]

Bottom line: those pictures of NW6 transplants look pretty darn bad, and these are the ones you picked to illustrate a point.

This guy should've just shaved or got a wig; this looks really weird: http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/bl ... WebID=1295

Dudemon isn't right about everything, but he's almost always spot on when it comes to hair transplants. To be fair to him, you've said a lot of weird stuff in this thread. Who the hell is so deluded to think they "won't get a strip scar with a good surgeon"?

 

[s.a.f]

I have to back up flatpro here, despite being in a similar (or worse) situation to Dudemon you cant deny that some of the H&W results he's published have improved some of these guys appearances no end.
If you are a NW6 you have to be prepared to accept that you'll never have a great NW1 or even a great NW2 but its very possible that you can the appearance of an acceptable head of hair for someone in their 30's or 40's. And there may be plenty of guys saying yeah but they still look thin or whatever but until you,ve actually experienced life as a totally bald man, not just someone with recession or thinning then you dont know how precious it feels just to have something uptop.

Theres no one here who can argue that guys like NicNitro, Jotronic or Londonlad should'nt have had a hair transplant. These three although they are in the top 10% of good results have gone from baldness to a decent looking head of hair that no one would ever suspect.

The problem with Dudemon is he has only one clear view on anything to do with baldness, and its always based on his own experience. And he is'nt prepared to accept the possibility of any other outcome.
I got burned just as badly but if I still prefer what little I've got now to having nothing at all. And if I had the chance again I'd go straight to H&W.

 

[herenomore]

This is fantastic ... two guys having different opinions putting up there points. I agree it got a bit personal which shouldn't hv happened, but from a readers perspective ... this is great information and is extremely helpful.

Every person is diff and for some wat dudemon said would be correct and for some wat flat_pro said would be correct.

Personally, I was really impressed by

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=59796&p=567408#p567408

and

http://www.hassonandwong.com/hair-t...atID=2&categoryName=Before+&+After+Videos

Both of them are asian and about my age with similar hairloss. The only difference that might be is that they might still be continuing with finpecia which I will not.

Also, when it comes to this person
http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/journal.asp?CopyID=4763&WebID=1295

If I was in his place I would go for this procedure. The amount of hair he has right now ... if he grows them a bit longer he would look like me ... which i think is a big improvement from his earlier state.
Again it comes down to the individuals expectations. Do I want a full head of hair ... like I had when I was 18 .... no ... i dont expect that ... the reason I want to get an hair transplant at an early age of 25 is because being bald at this age is not common enough and that makes it more distinctive. If i get an hair transplant now and improve my density and keep it till say I'm about 30 and then all my native hair fall off I'd think the hair transplant was worth it ... only because at 30 this sort of hairloss is still aceptable .. atleast for me.

On another note ... I got a reply from Dr. Coles online consultation. Even he suggested getting back on finpecia. He also said that I should get only 1400-1500 grafts in the front to avoid shockloss in my first procedure. He insisted that I should not go in for a strip procedure as I'm destined for a nw6 state and incase i want to shave of my head i wont be able too.

Again the confusion occurs. Dr. Shapiro says I should look at 2200-2500 grafts in the front using the strip technique whereas Dr. Cole says I should go in for 1400-1500 grafts in the front as well but not with strip.

 

[s.a.f]

Also, when it comes to this person
http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/journal.asp?CopyID=4763&WebID=1295

If I was in his place I would go for this procedure. The amount of hair he has right now ... if he grows them a bit longer he would look like me ... which i think is a big improvement from his earlier state.

Bear in mind that this guy was only 6months out he could still get another 50% improvement. And even if he does'nt I've seen plenty older guys with hair this thin. IMO its still better than having a head like a egg.

With regards to strip my view (and this is coming from someone who has been totally butcherd and needs to use concealers on his strip scar) is that you should always go for multiple FUE sessions unless you need over 5000 grafts. But if your a NW6 and have no plans to ever shave down. Which I did'nt for me the whole point of a hair transplant was that I could grow my hair as I hated the shaved look. NW5/6's have not really got the option its extremly unpractical and expensive to have anything other than strip. But if you do then you should be able to get away with a grade 3 length on the back and sides.

 

[Petchsky]

I think by now Dudemon the concensus is that NW6 mostly don't get great coverage, but can get an improvement on a totally bald head.

As long as that is understood, along with the fact that they will be limited by the kind of hairstyle they can have, plenty of guys will take this option over hiding behind a hat forever. It's a personal decision that requires much thought and dialogue with a competent doctor, not to mention the commitment and money to get there....but with mega sessions and docs like H+W, it's a better time now than ever before.

As you know, the choice for a H/T is a personal one and it is not as black and white as it can appear. Level of baldness, hair characteristics, size of donor, and skill of the doctor all play an important part in the end result.

Obviously, not getting a H/T and making peace with your baldness is the best and cheapest option.

I took three years to decide to get a H/T, by which time I was certain of my decision, and well researched.... I refused to be skinny, short and BALD!

But never rush in to surgery.

 

[Boondock]

What's all this chat about IP tracers now??

It seems to me that everyone's in agreement here, really. A NW6 cannot get a full or even 'mature' head of hair, and will have to settle with pretty thin and limited coverage (in most cases).

The only difference is that some users consider that better than nothing, and others think it looks worse than before. It's a personal preference.

 

[Nene]

Petchsky and Boondock are right. It's a matter of if you prefer looking like a balding man or a bald man. A norwood 6 will still look like a balding man after several thousand grafts and for some people this is enough to make them happy. Saf for exampe is happier to have some hair albeit thin and dudemon isn't. I personally prefer to be bald over having thin hair. I have a Norwood 2ish with thinning in the Norwood 3 area. I buzzed my hair for over a year even though my hair is much thicker than most people who have had hair transplants. To me it is the look of receded temples and wispy, puny hairs that I hate! My hair has improved a little with treatment and looks almost perfect with a light sprinkling of Toppik so I'm keeping it for now, but if I was unhappy with a mature hairline and some thinning I don't see how I could be happy with 40 grafts per cm^2. We can all agree on this but I think the one thing everyone should stay away from is a hair transplant at a very young age with only minimal hairloss, we all know this is a recipe for disaster.

 

[SummerOf2010]

I cant add much here but would like to point out a couple of things that dudemon pointed out early on that might have gotten lost in the shuffle:

1) Photos from hair transplant docs dont mean anything. I am the "larry from the 3 stooges" pics about halfway thru this thread ....and even with no hair transplant I can take really nice photos. With my expertise at the combover I can (and do) get nice pics and thats without concealer.

2) Norwood level is not the only consideration: Is the hair nice and course... or is it like my hair (cotton candy or spiders web) thats my stumbling block. Im NW3 but : do I want more cotton candy on my temples?

3) Is the hair loss gradual or is it moving like wildfire?

4) The people who the docs have you meet are the BEST CASE SCENARIOS...not adverage.

I can understand being on the fence with thie becase I am also.

hair transplant and finasteride should not be taken lightly

WIG or SHAVE or DO-NOTHING have no real ramifications.