CBS Evening News tommorow...balding cure

[JustBreathe]

I just ordered some 30% Jaquan Phoenix, will this work as well?

 

[Lessofarockstar]

I just ordered some 30% Jaquan Phoenix, will this work as well?

go for the new foam based Joaquin Phoenix :shock:

 

[DaSand]

You brought up some good points gnome especially about pricing. I agree with you it should be cheap for even working men and women to get it. Not everyone is rich like Donald Trump and there are people that deserve hair! I would like that price despite I'll be done with school and finding full-time work.

I don't agree with the hair transplant for the hairline because I want the hairline I had before it started receding. I think it's greed too, hair transplant had realized it's time is done. I don't want one because I honestly think hairline transplants look natural. I just want HM to fill in my hairline and my temples and thinning areas.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for 2007 or 2008. The day will come when we win and get the women not some bourgeois pretty boy with an IQ of 75.

 

[RTJBJ]

in my opinion , when HM comes out , they should perform a test procedure first. Meaning injecting small number of cell to a localized portion of the scalp to see how the person react to it..

some how i don't like the idea of injecting thousands of cell all at same time..

can't really tell how an individual will react to it. :?

 

[JustBreathe]

RTJBJ - Right on brother, there could be some less than desirable outcomes....

Im still so completley in the dark around exactly how HM is going to work.

They inject cells contained within a fluid into your scalp, and then these cells...

-- create new follicles?

-- regenerate the follicels you already had there?

* what if the cells decide to travel, how do they stay put?
* will hair grow only where there was hair to begin with?
* is it possible we can use other folks cells?

Geez I dont know.....hey intercytex release an FAQ!

 

[nervx]

What is the reason for the combo hair transplant + HM? Is it just corporate greed or will HM debut in a form that requires the help of hair transplant for tings like hair-line creation and such?

Corp greed. Since Bosely will be the only ones offering HM with a hair transplant they'll be able to steal the market and make a sh*t load of cash. Plus it allows them to recoup the money they're spending to get HM throught the fda trials and change over their clinics from hair transplant to HM. Keep in mind the whole marketing thing isn't final yet though so things might change.

It's possible the actual multiplication will be automated by machines, as I said I don't really know. Please enlighten me to this procedure if you can.

They haven't really said much about this part but im guessing a mix of man and machine.

By giving into this price-range you can also attract a female audience who wants more volume to their hair. Very few females would be part of your customer-pool if it cost 10k, most females don't have a hair problem severe enough to make them as desperate as us balding men.

There is a female version of HM but it hasn't been submitted for testing. It's basically the same thing but hair loss in men is where the money is.

This would be what I would do, any thoughts on this kind of price happening?

1-2 grand is a little too low for something brand new imo although in the hair transplant+HM combo pack they say the HM part is so cheap that only a fool would turn it down so who knows.

For stand alone HM i would say 5-8 grand is more reasonable depending on how bald you are. Mind you they keep your cells on file so if you need a touch up later on you pay far less.

 

[jumpedthegun]

i don't think the bundling of hair transplants and hm is necessarily financially motivated. for one, they can charge as much as they want for hm, so there is no need to jack up the price by including a transplant. second, it will be much easier and will require much less manpower to perform hm than a hair transplant, so why would they want to go through the hassle of doing a transplant each time.

if you ask me, i think they believe that a hair transplant will be necessary in order to have a cosmetically acceptable look. either the hm will, by itself, not produce dense enough hair, or the hair won't be the correct length or diameter or color. i think at a minimal, you will need a transplant for your hairline, and maybe a transplant to most of your balding areas, and then they can use hm to provide "ground cover" to fill everything in and make the rest of your hair (including the transplants) look fuller and denser.

some day and totally bald person will be able to walk in and get a full head of hm hair, but for now i think hm will be something that makes a transplant look better, and not something that will stand alone.

though, i wonder if diffusers can get hm by itself, since they only need to add a little density.

 

[newguy2006]

What if one wants to get their hairline restored by a quality surgeon, such as Shapiro. Are you just SOL? Or could you do the NW1 hairline with Shapiro and then let the Bosley hack do a hair transplant behind that for the sake of getting HM as well?

 

[Solo]

Just making some "What If...?" for fun:

Maybe someday people could change his hair texture and colour by replacing his follicles for another ones like going to a hair-dresser.

Imagine a nordic all blonde girl wearing a natural afro, and vice versa.

 

[EasyEd]

Pardon my ignorance here, but I've heard absolute nightmare stories about Bosley and they seem to be spear-heading this thing. Is this the right company for this? From everything I've seen and read about Bosley and their hair transplants, it's been negative...

 

[jumpedthegun]

based on an interview with Washenik that i read, i believe they have plans to license the procedure out, so you could probably go to any transplant surgeon for hm. and if they don't, i'm sure that guys like shapiro will either go get a job at bosley or somehow become affiliated with them, or else they'd be out of a job themselves.

 

[gnome]

Corp greed. Since Bosely will be the only ones offering HM with a hair transplant they'll be able to steal the market and make a $#iT load of cash. Plus it allows them to recoup the money they're spending to get HM throught the fda trials and change over their clinics from hair transplant to HM. Keep in mind the whole marketing thing isn't final yet though so things might change.
-----

Is bosley the only one cornerning the business? I thought atleast two independant labs were busy researching this, surely Bosley can not have bought them both?

Also, I think if HM when it comes out, *needs* hair transplant then it might be seen as somewhat of a failiure. I thought the whole point of developing it was primarily to get a good amount of healthy strong hair. My logic says it's all a bunch of bullshit that HM would need hair transplant; that would only apply if HM made inferior hair and in that case it wouldn't be used anyway. You're not going to get paying customers if you're selling poor-textured scrotum-hairs, even if you can produce them by the buckets.
It's alittle alarming that this Bosley company appears to have first dibs on how this should be played out.. enlighten me if you could as to what right Bosley has to take creative control over the different "factions" of independant research teams.

Oh and the 1-2 grand thing was in perspective of HM being out a year or two commercially. hair transplant from what I gather hasn't "aged" very well, it was expensive when it came out and it's expensive still. From the little I know about the HM procedure I just don't see any practical reason for it to cost much, something hair transplant sugeons are quick to point out about their procedure whenever they're asked to justify why a sane person would honker up 20k to move a couple of thousand hairs from the neck to the top.

And here I thought Intercytex was this little opportunity-grabing rebel group bent on ninjaing the entire industry to themself with cheap and effective treatment. Apparently I was misstaken

EDIT: yes I don't understand how that fancy quoting thingy works.

 

[WiseJoeyD]

And here I thought Intercytex was this little opportunity-grabing rebel group bent on ninjaing the entire industry to themself with cheap and effective treatment. Apparently I was misstaken

So what's hapening? There's two main ones? UK firm, Intercytex developing it and a US one Bosley?
What do you mean about being mistaken?

It all sounds interesting. But it seem sslightly surreal to think it'd be out round about this time next year. My common sense is telling me I'll have to limp on with ever decreasing hair till 2008.

Where'd yous think the treatment will be available? Here in dear old Blighty (obviously not on the NHS though) or would it just be expensive places in the US?

 

[Guest]

Sorry boys..I hate to do this, but what I came across is going to blow a hole in our ship....check this link out

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/04/05/i ... follow-up/

 

[gnome]

And here I thought Intercytex was this little opportunity-grabing rebel group bent on ninjaing the entire industry to themself with cheap and effective treatment. Apparently I was misstaken

So what's hapening? There's two main ones? UK firm, Intercytex developing it and a US one Bosley?
What do you mean about being mistaken?

It all sounds interesting. But it seem sslightly surreal to think it'd be out round about this time next year. My common sense is telling me I'll have to limp on with ever decreasing hair till 2008.

Where'd yous think the treatment will be available? Here in dear old Blighty (obviously not on the NHS though) or would it just be expensive places in the US?

I was just building on what people like nervx seems to say, that there are a few different players in the race to get HM out commercially but whichever suceeds, for some reason Bosley gets to call the shots on how it will be presented, like the hair transplant+HM combo. Why this is I don't know, I'm guessing that they've been sneaky and put in a lot of money all over.
Don't take my word for it, cause I have *no* idea how it actually works.

I would prefer this not being under Bosleys thumb but rather licensed out pretty freely all over the world for a nice fee to the originator. If a company who is known for doing hair transplant controls HM then you can be pretty sure they'll do the combo for some time just because they're insanely greedy bastards.
That's not what we need, what we need is a company that has no interest whatsoever in keeping ancient, crappy practices like hair transplant alive for another day. That would guarantee the rapid spread of HM-use and thus the lowering of its price.

 

[JustBreathe]

What we need (want), and what we get, are most of the time two different things.

As for The Moose's total sh*t canning/dream killing/hope crushing post, what do we make of this?

I always thought that the date of 2008 was unrealistic seeing as they have not even started Phase 2 of the FDA trials. Don't these trials take a number of years? and is there not a third FDA trial?

Anyone got a timeline on the FDA process?

Isn't the suspense such fun....

 

[gnome]

Sorry boys..I hate to do this, but what I came across is going to blow a hole in our ship....check this link out

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/04/05/i ... follow-up/

Here's a quote from their front-page: NHI is a medical group of specially trained physicians dedicated solely to hair restoration. We are a world leader in hair transplant technology, clinical research and teaching.

I haven't checked much of their site but they seem to mainly do the hair transplant thing, so I'm thinking conflict of interest. I have read the Q&A pages before and I often find them patronizing in style, like the one you quoted above. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but what I saw in that page was a hair transplant doctor sweating at the possibility of business dissapearing through HM. Also, comedy should be reserved for professionals, but that's just my opinion.
Overall my impression of that site is that they're *really* eager on pushing hair transplants.
Allthough if you want to seriously consider what he says, then i don't know.. (and ignoring the retarded suggestion that HM hair would first be grown out on a mouse and then replanted into you) anyone here who knows the procedure of FDA and HM? I thought it was stated a page or two back in this thread that since it's not an internal drug it does not fall under such FDA protocols and hence does not have to take that much time. If botox didn't need more than half a year (please find a reference for this) then I'm guessing HM won't be much of a problem.. botox is a foreign entity in your body, HM if done right, it is as familiar as it could be. It's a cloned you for god's sake.

Still, there is the whole cancer thing, but shouldn't the fact that proof of concept testing (phase 1) went over relatively smooth and rapidly be indicative of just how long the overall testing would take?
That both intercytex and that other company is looking to start phase 2 this quickly to me says that the risk of cancer-formation has been found to be virtually non-existant or atleast it's not of any serious issue at this point in development. Feel free to add your thoughts, as I think I've said many times in this thread, I am basing all I say purely on logic and virtually no knowledge or experience in medical testing, research and whatnot.

It just wouldn't make sense to be this eager to go to phase 2, which is a modification in method from phase 1 and with a larger sample group, if you were still worried that they'd all end up with skin-cancer. I'm fairly confident they're really confident about their product.
I guess phase 2 is the real deal-breaker and the one to watch for, as phase 3 is just a bigger sample group.

 

[JustBreathe]

I am completely baffled by some humans, if this Doctor is fear mongering and trying to mislead people to make a decision they may regret later on in life....I just don't understand greed.

Are my expectations of people too high?

A Doctor should be first and foremost concerned with what is best for the paitent, if this Doctor is worried about losing money to HM he should jump on board somehow...apply to be a distributer and learn the new skills required. Or invest in Intercytex. :wink:

Anyway I just really don't want to believe this guy.

I hope it does make it by 2008, cos the way my hair is going I will be past a norwood seven by the end of this year

 

[gnome]

I am completely baffled by some humans, if this Doctor is fear mongering and trying to mislead people to make a decision they may regret later on in life....I just don't understand greed.

Are my expectations of people too high?

A Doctor should be first and foremost concerned with what is best for the paitent, if this Doctor is worried about losing money to HM he should jump on board somehow...apply to be a distributer and learn the new skills required. Or invest in Intercytex. :wink:

Anyway I just really don't want to believe this guy.

I hope it does make it by 2008, cos the way my hair is going I will be past a norwood seven by the end of this year

I understand and share your concern, I'm equally annoyed by the reluctanse and second motive many doctors display. However, it's worth keeping in mind that we are discussing a vanity product, however mentally exhausting this is. It's not like he's prescribing leeches cause he has a leech-farm instead of telling people to get proper medical care for ailment they would surely die from if they went with leeches instead.
He built his company most likely with accumulated experience from hair transplant. If someone introduces HM and worse yet does not license it out for some time, well then he's screwed.

If HM was out today and resulted in incredible results, but it's still too expensive or otherwise inaccessible, and hair transplant is the only other option, while cheaper, a large percentage of people would independantly come to the same conclusion - cut your hair short and wait for HM to crawl down to a sane level. hair transplant knows its time is up. Some people just don't want to let go of that.

It's no surprise that the most balanced views on the reality of HM comes from doctors and other scientists who do not have a direct hand in the hair transplant-business. Follow independant research-outlets and you'll see joy expressed from cloning, not only with hair but with other things such as creating healthy new skin and whatnot. The technology behind HM is *exciting*, it's new and better, improved. It's a product of a step forward in medicine. By far the big negative "HM will never happen, it's dangerous, you'll surely get cancer" predominately comes from grumpy hair transplant surgeons. It's a paradigm-shift. If they knew they could be practicing HM-surgeons in a few years I bet they'd look forward to it. Injecting fluid sounds tons easier than painstakingly fiddle with tiny, near invisible hairs trying to get direction right and killing your back being hunched over patients for 8 hours straight. You don't think they'd welcome such a change? There is just no contest between hair transplant and HM, HM has all the advantages over hair transplant.

The main fear as I see it is that these hair transplant doctors are unsure if they can aquire the training/facility to do HM, something that's still unclear at this point. I guess some of them take the preemptive strike to bash it while it's not even out yet to be fairly evaluated in hopes of getting those last batches of patients.

All vanity surgery is strictly money wrangling; while some doctors may say they're in the field to help people deal with their appearances, most of that is just bullcrap. The reality is that vanity surgery brings home the big bucks. A cosmetic surgery wing can often save an entire hospital from going under financially. It's rarely done for the joy of restoring blown-off faces from third world country kids who only have mud and flowers as payment.

 

[HairyPotter]

I think TheMoose's post is a reality check to all of us.... I havent read all 15+ pages of posts but where da hell is this 2008 date for HM coming from?!?!?

Is it just speculation or is there some kind of new breakthrough that is giving us this promising new date???

I hope to God just like the rest of us that HM would come out by 2008 but Phase II trials havent even started yet...

Am I missing something or WTF are we getting all happy about... :scratch: