Can Ru58841 Have Been Dropped For Causing Cancer?

[Michael1986]

According to what?

This guy took a test and the DHT was so low that it didn't even show up on his labs:

As far as dutasteride reseting a hair cycle like minoxidil...how does that make any sense? shouldn't the existing follicle just gradually become thicker? or in any case, wait for it to fall normally instead of shedding it?

What about the guys that have been on dutasteride for 1+ year and their hairline continues becoming destroying? that's a scary sight. There's no way the tiny amount of DHT that shows up in labs of people that use dutasteride translates into the treatment not at least slowing down, but they report faster balding even after a f*****g year.

Perhaps other hormones being boosted because of the massive DHT loss becoming upregulated are causing a massive shed? there are many hormones that interact with all of this (DHEA, prolactin, delta 4 androstendiol...) what if one of those or various becoming out of range causes a massive shed? there was a guy saying that his prolactin was out of range with finasteride, maybe that is why people shed?

There has to be a reason. Like we said, lowering DHT should always be positive, yet in some cases it does nothing or even accelerates the balding.

I don't deny that other androgens can contribute towards hair loss too (albeit to a lesser extent than DHT). I am just of the view that it would seem highly improbable that finasteride/dutasteride can actually make hair loss worse than it would have been if you were not using finasteride/dutasteride to begin with. I think that those guys who report a lot of hair loss while taking 5ar inhibitors probably just have extremely aggressive hair loss anyway, and the 5ar inhibitor they are using is just not strong enough to put a halt to their own hair loss. I came across an interesting thread here from a couple of years ago, which explains very well, quoting research-based evidence, why we probably don't have to worry about androgen receptor upregulation. Here's the link to it: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-about-androgen-receptor-upregulation.110125/

 

[itsjustsimon]

f you block a receptor, long term you are going to piss off your body and cause it to become more sensitive = more balding

Well. AR upregulation is where nobody knows sh*t. Maybe an interesting study ( done on rats ) regarding this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427060

Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are testosterone derivatives originally designed to enhance muscular mass and used for the treatment of many clinical conditions as well as in contraception. Despite popular interest and abuse, we still lack a broad understanding of effects of AAS on synthesis of steroid hormones on the molecular level. This study was designed to systematically analyze the effects of pharmacological/high doses of testosterone on steroidogenic machinery in Leydig cells. Two different experimental approaches were used: (1) In vivo experiment on groups of adult male rats treated with testosterone for 1 day, 2 weeks, and 2 months; (2) Direct in vitro testosterone treatment of Leydig cells isolated from intact rats. Result showed that prolonged in vivo treatment with testosterone decreased the expression of Scarb1 (scavenger receptor class B type 1), Tspo (translocator protein), Star (steroidogenic acute regulatory protein), Cyp11a1 (cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme), and Cyp17a1 (17α-hydroxylase/17, 20 lyase) in Leydig cells. Oppositely, the expression of Hsd3b (3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase/delta-5-delta-4 isomerase), Ar (androgen receptor), and Pde4a/b (cyclic adenosine monophosphate-dependent phosphodiesterases) was increased. Androgenization for 2 weeks inhibited Cyp19 (aromatase) transcription, whereas 2-month exposure caused the opposite effect. Direct in vitro testosterone treatment also decreased the expression of Cyp11a1, Cyp17a1, and Cyp19a1, whereas Hsd3b was upregulated. The results of expression analysis were supported by declined steroidogenic capacity and activity of Leydig cells, although conversion of pregnenolone to progesterone was stimulated. The upregulation of AR and 3βHSD in testosterone-impaired Leydig cells steroidogenesis could be the possible mechanism that maintain and prevent loss of steroidogenic function.

 

[itsjustsimon]

treatment not at least slowing down, but they report faster balding even after a f*****g year.

What about a guy that is immune to 5AR inhibitors and is continuously balding without even knowing it even on dutasteride?

I haven't seen many "dutasteride destroyed my hairline" threads after a year of usage. Normally there are people who have been on dutasteride for 6 months, go over a bad shed and then they quit. I was almost one of them.

 

[LifeIsSucks]

According to what?

This guy took a test and the DHT was so low that it didn't even show up on his labs:

As far as dutasteride reseting a hair cycle like minoxidil...how does that make any sense? shouldn't the existing follicle just gradually become thicker? or in any case, wait for it to fall normally instead of shedding it?

What about the guys that have been on dutasteride for 1+ year and their hairline continues becoming destroying? that's a scary sight. There's no way the tiny amount of DHT that shows up in labs of people that use dutasteride translates into the treatment not at least slowing down, but they report faster balding even after a f*****g year.

Perhaps other hormones being boosted because of the massive DHT loss becoming upregulated are causing a massive shed? there are many hormones that interact with all of this (DHEA, prolactin, delta 4 androstendiol...) what if one of those or various becoming out of range causes a massive shed? there was a guy saying that his prolactin was out of range with finasteride, maybe that is why people shed?

There has to be a reason. Like we said, lowering DHT should always be positive, yet in some cases it does nothing or even accelerates the balding.

more plates more dates was artificially increasing his t levels to supraphysiological amounts, its about lowering the androgenic effect of hormones totally, by increasing his t he in effect cancelled the anti androgenic effect of having no dht

normal person with normal t levels doesn't have to worry about this while going on dutasteride

 

[Michael1986]

more plates more dates was artificially increasing his t levels to supraphysiological amounts, its about lowering the androgenic effect of hormones totally, by increasing his t he in effect cancelled the anti androgenic effect of having no dht

normal person with normal t levels doesn't have to worry about this while going on dutasteride

Yes indeed. Well pointed out.

 

[infinitepain]

more plates more dates was artificially increasing his t levels to supraphysiological amounts, its about lowering the androgenic effect of hormones totally, by increasing his t he in effect cancelled the anti androgenic effect of having no dht

normal person with normal t levels doesn't have to worry about this while going on dutasteride

I doubt he was taking enough testosterone to get x7 the amount of androgenic effect (which is what he reduced with dutasteride) so he should have less hairloss on dutasteride nonteless.

 

[infinitepain]

Well. AR upregulation is where nobody knows sh*t. Maybe an interesting study ( done on rats ) regarding this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427060

Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are testosterone derivatives originally designed to enhance muscular mass and used for the treatment of many clinical conditions as well as in contraception. Despite popular interest and abuse, we still lack a broad understanding of effects of AAS on synthesis of steroid hormones on the molecular level. This study was designed to systematically analyze the effects of pharmacological/high doses of testosterone on steroidogenic machinery in Leydig cells. Two different experimental approaches were used: (1) In vivo experiment on groups of adult male rats treated with testosterone for 1 day, 2 weeks, and 2 months; (2) Direct in vitro testosterone treatment of Leydig cells isolated from intact rats. Result showed that prolonged in vivo treatment with testosterone decreased the expression of Scarb1 (scavenger receptor class B type 1), Tspo (translocator protein), Star (steroidogenic acute regulatory protein), Cyp11a1 (cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme), and Cyp17a1 (17α-hydroxylase/17, 20 lyase) in Leydig cells. Oppositely, the expression of Hsd3b (3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase/delta-5-delta-4 isomerase), Ar (androgen receptor), and Pde4a/b (cyclic adenosine monophosphate-dependent phosphodiesterases) was increased. Androgenization for 2 weeks inhibited Cyp19 (aromatase) transcription, whereas 2-month exposure caused the opposite effect. Direct in vitro testosterone treatment also decreased the expression of Cyp11a1, Cyp17a1, and Cyp19a1, whereas Hsd3b was upregulated. The results of expression analysis were supported by declined steroidogenic capacity and activity of Leydig cells, although conversion of pregnenolone to progesterone was stimulated. The upregulation of AR and 3βHSD in testosterone-impaired Leydig cells steroidogenesis could be the possible mechanism that maintain and prevent loss of steroidogenic function.

Well so we are playing with fire. What if you end up balding faster?

 

[infinitepain]

What about a guy that is immune to 5AR inhibitors and is continuously balding without even knowing it even on dutasteride?

I haven't seen many "dutasteride destroyed my hairline" threads after a year of usage. Normally there are people who have been on dutasteride for 6 months, go over a bad shed and then they quit. I was almost one of them.

That would be easy to prove with a simple bloodwork, if DHT was not lowered then he is inmune to dutasteride.

The question is how the f*** can people with normal T levels continue balding on dutasteride with 0 DHT and report accelerated hairloss in some cases.

 

[Michael1986]

I doubt he was taking enough testosterone to get x7 the amount of androgenic effect (which is what he reduced with dutasteride) so he should have less hairloss on dutasteride nonteless.

The aggressiveness of his natural hair loss would have increased over time, as is normally the case for male pattern baldness. If he wasn't using dutasteride at all, he likely would have gone completely bald very rapidly, especially as he is also using steroids. I have no doubt the dutasteride was in fact slowing down his rate of loss.

The question is how the f*** can people with normal T levels continue balding on dutasteride with 0 DHT and report accelerated hairloss in some cases.

Dutasteride doesn't block 100% of your DHT though. When taken at 0.5mg a day, it blocks around 98.5% of DHT from 5ar type 2, and around 50% of DHT from 5ar type 1. The DHT that is leftover from both types of 5ar can still do damage. A recent study found that 5ar type 3 is also present in the hair follicles in addition to 5ar types 1 and 2, and it doesn't appear to be known yet whether or not dutasteride (or finasteride) inhibits this third type of 5ar (there are conflicting reports). So basically, there is still a lot of DHT production that dutasteride leaves untouched. Also, testosterone and other androgens can also play a role in hair loss, though a significantly smaller role than DHT. My belief is that it is not possible for 5ar inhibitors to actually make your hair loss worse than it would have been if you had left it untreated. However, if your hair loss is super aggressive, chances are that finasteride and dutasteride will not be strong enough to stop your own hair loss, and will only be able to slow down its natural rate of progression.

 

[itsjustsimon]

Well so we are playing with fire. What if you end up balding faster?

That's why I believe studies on CB were way worse after 12 months that anyone expected ( vs the data after 6 months ).