Anti-ageing creams and general face care

[The Gardener]

Dry skin is the enemy :nono:

This is what ages you....

No, actually its not.

From my ex, who worked for a dermatologist:

Skin is aged due to breakdown in the underlying tissues (exacerbated mainly by sun exposure), and due to slower skin cell turnover that occurs genetically as we get older.

Dry skin DOES make skin LOOK older. This is because there is a layer of dead skin cells in the outermost layers of the epidermis. When your skin is moisturized, these cells are "plumped" with lipids, which reduces the APPEARANCE of wrinkles and makes your skin LOOK smoother and younger. When your skin is dry, these cells do not have any lipids to puff them up, which makes your skin look more wrinkly and coarse. Dry skin, however, does not "damage" skin at ALL, it does not "age" your skin permanently. All it does is improve the cosmetic look that your skin has.

If you are concerned about preventing actual damage to your skin, you need to protect the underlying tissues from damage by wearing sunscreen, and you need to improve the rate of cell turnover. Our skin is multilayered... there is a layer of newly formed "young" skin cells deep within our epidermis that is constantly growing layers of new skin. This skin is "pushed out" and as it does so, starts to die. By the time the skin reaches the outermost layer of our epidermis it is completely dead, and is sloughed off. When we are young, our metabolism is a lot faster and new skin layers are being created quickly, which means the skin, once it reaches the outer layer of the epidermis, is relatively youthful looking before being sloughed off. As we get older, this process slows down, which means the outermost layer of skin is relatively older in terms of cell life than would be the case for young people... as a result, this outer epidermal skin has been dead longer, and doesn't look as youthful. Exfoliation counters this, and is recommended for folks over 30 or so, as regular exfoliation spurs the skin cells into quickening their turnover.

Yuber's piece is right on. My ex's boss recommended for me copper peptides in the evening (I asked him about Pickart's products, he said right on!).. and a 10% AHA product that had a good ph level. In my case, he told me I should STOP using the "facial soap", and that I needed to wash my face with good old fashioned soap and water twice a day (a ph-balanced soap, such as Dove), using a washcloth to gently exfoliate at night. He said, for me (who has "combination skin"), it was more important to get the sebum and dirt off my face than it was to worry about dryness. Besides, he said, the dryness will be countered by the lipids in the copper peptide and AHA products I was going to use right after washing. MOST of all, he told me to use sunscreen, ALWAYS, EVERYDAY, no matter what the weather was. Sun is the killer... it damages skin, creating blemishes, and it damages the underlying tissues that connect the epidermis to the underlying tissues of the face, causing drooping and wrinkles. He also recommended Retin-A, but he said he thought I was far too young to start it.

 

[Felk]

Dry skin doesn't age you.

And i'm of two minds in starting something like retin-a early: on one hand why bother if you're young, and the mechanism of action makes people wonder whether or not it's a good thing to start early. On the other, it's prescribed to teenagers for acne all the time, and most of it's benefits in "repairing" sun damage and wrinkles are far exceeded by it's ability to prevent them.

 

[Cassin]

interesting replies. Very informative.

 

[powersam]

Cleansing & Skin Biology

The primary goal of cleansing is to remove surface dirt and makeup, dead skin cells and bacteria. When skin looks and feels healthy, it can enhance a person's confidence and self-esteem. But to stay healthy, skin must be adequately hydrated with an intact stratum corneum.

The stratum corneum, the tough, outer layer of the epidermis, consists of 15-20 layers of cells called corneocytes, held together by protein-rich bridges called desmosomes. The spaces between corneocytes are filled with epidermal lipids, or fats. These lipids are key to protecting the skin from from environmental insults such as dust and germs. Lipids also maintain the elastic properties of skin cells to help keep skin supple.

One must consider the unique needs of their skin when selecting a cleanser, and avoid products that may compromise the stratum corneum or which exacerbate existing skin conditions. Some consumers choose cleansing products that are touted as "pH balanced," because of the belief that they are gentler on the skin. However, some scientific literature suggests that pH level is not strongly linked to a skin cleanser's irritancy potential. One researcher postulated that a product's ability to minimize surface oil or cause keratin denaturation has a greater impact on its potential to damage skin than its pH.2 Likewise, cleansing products that deliver skin conditioners and moisturizers can positively improve the health of skin.

http://www.pgbeautyscience.com/advances-in-science.html

 

[The Gardener]

Powersam, I have to respectfully disagree... note that the link you offer is from a Procter and Gamble website.

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/art.asp?ID=177

The whole "dry skin causes wrinkles" myth has been propogated by the beauty products industry so that they can get away selling people blatantly overpriced moisturizers. The active ingredient in most all facial moisturizers is glycerin... and that cheap jug of Lubriderm will moisturize just as well as a hundred dollar product from a fancy department store counter.

In fact, what most "fancy" moisturizer brands do is take the glycerin base, and claim to add in extras like copper peptides, or "shitake mushroom complex", or collagen, and use this as a way to market a completely overpriced product... when in reality, although the moisturizer might actually have these ingredients in it, they really are doing no good internally, as the moisturizer does not have a skin penetrating vehicle in it so none of these ingredients are getting to the layers of skin where they might actually do any good. What the skin care companies are doing, really, is bordering on fraud. Collagen is a case in point... so many moisturizers claim to have collagen in them, but the problem is that collagen is only good for your skin at your skin's deepest levels. The collagen molecule is, apparently, a very large one and does not penetrate the skin without the assistance of some sort of chemical vehicle... so, all of the collagen that is in this moisturizer is, in effect, just sitting on top of your face and not doing any good at all.

Another marketing tactic bordering on fraud are these moisturizers that boast that they have "retinol" in them... this is REALLY crooked in my opinion. "Retin-A" is an effective and proven skin repairing treatment that is usually only available with a prescription. "Retinol" is, basically, vitamin A... nothing special.

Moisturizer manufacturers often sell products that boast "contains Retinol", and charge a higher price for them because of it. MANY a consumer buy these products thinking that they are getting a moisturizer that contains Retin-A in it, because they are confusing the names of the two substances, and they are overpaying for something that they are really not getting.

Even more blatant and sneaky, I have even seen moisturizers where they claim to have "Retinol A" in them... which is merely a combination of the word "retinol", and an "A" referring to it being vitamin A. Probably 9 out of every 10 consumers who buy the product are believing that their moisturizer has Retin-A in it, but in fact, Retin A and Retinol are two completely different substances that have nothing to do with each other.

Now, this is NOT to say that there aren't plenty of pricey moisturizer brands out there that DO have ingredient formulations that might be more beneficial to your face than your plain vanilla glycerin... this is especially true when it comes to sensitive skin products. I am not saying that all high end moisturizers don't have benefits over and above the basic substance, I am just saying that quite a few moisturizers charge higher prices for ingredients that are doing your face no good.

Here's a nice little website... check out the "biology of ageing" link along the left hand side.
http://www.smartskincare.com/skincarebasics/

 

[Felk]

Even more blatant and sneaky, I have even seen moisturizers where they claim to have "Retinol A" in them... which is merely a combination of the word "retinol", and an "A" referring to it being vitamin A. Probably 9 out of every 10 consumers who buy the product are believing that their moisturizer has Retin-A in it, but in fact, Retin A and Retinol are two completely different substances that have nothing to do with each other.

Not quite true Gardener, as i posted above, retin-a is a metabolite of "retinol" or vitamin A. The hope is the skin enzymes convert the retinol to the more active substance, but the metabolic activity of skin enzymes is very low, so yeah, it's a dupe.

 

[powersam]

hehe gard your site is also selling stuff...

 

[CCS]

Guys, two things dramatically improved my face:

Botox, and a sun umbrella and sun glasses.
Botox took 5 years off my face. The sun umbrella took all the excess red out of my face in just a few days.

I bought Banana Boat Kids Tear Free UVA & UVB Sunblock lotion SpF 30. It has Titanium Dioxide and vitamins A, C and E, and glycerin in it. Maybe it was responsible for the red leaving, since I started it with the umbrella.

I'm still putting other anti-oxidants on my face and experimenting. But I've been doing that for a while without seeing anything dramatic.

 

[CCS]

And you are supposed to eat the Resersatrol. I eat 250mg per day, with my frozen orange juice and grape juice. The long living rats ate a lot -- way more than is in wine, by like 1000x.

 

[emex4]

could you explan what you mean by "sun umbrella"?

 

[barcafan]

I used to think i needed all these skin care products too. then i can to the realization that i was f*****g crazy. The most simple explanation is probably the most correct one; wear sunscreen.

 

[CCS]

The damage saved by sun screen is probably 10x the recovery from these creams. So if you are not using sun screen, don't bother with the creams. Now if you are already using the sun screen, but want to turn back the clock more, that is when the creams come it. But many of them are purely cosmetic.

 

[metalheaddude]

I barely go out in the sun anyway.

 

[CCS]

The whiter your skin is, the more damage is done when you do go out. And DNA gets damaged as soon as you go out. I ride my bike 10 minutes to class, and that is enough to tan my face and turn it red. Not a burn, but just a red hue.

And you can likely get melanoma even if you stay in the shade all the time. Vitamin D prevents melanoma. But not everyone's skin makes vitamin D as much as it should. Your best bet is to wear sun block, and take vitamin D3. I use Banana Boat Kids Tear Free, SPF 30, with vitamins A, E, and C. Also has some titanium dioxide, which does not get broken down by the sun.

 

[Libido]

Thanks

Hey, thanks for the posts everyone. Really interesting! However, I´ve read the thread three times and still dont really know what to get.

Information overkill perhaps. :mrgreen:
A lot of you have listed active ingridients and what they do wich is informative and usefull - but then I still dont know what products to get really.

If I put it like this:
Lets say I´d want to spend about <50$/month on skincare concerning a generally "healthier" look, be it oral stuff or creams, what do I try first?

 

[Jacob]

How about AC-11(a cat's claw extract)...both internally and topically.

Elsomresearch.com has some products I've been trying out...on my face as well.

 

[Follically Challenged]

How about AC-11(a cat's claw extract)...both internally and topically.

Elsomresearch.com has some products I've been trying out...on my face as well.

Wow wicked thanks for the heads up on AC-11...I saw a cream sold on the shopping network involving Cat's Claw, sounded really good. I don't think it was the extract, though. Thank you!

 

[The Gardener]

Re: Thanks

Hey, thanks for the posts everyone. Really interesting! However, I´ve read the thread three times and still dont really know what to get.

Information overkill perhaps. :mrgreen:
A lot of you have listed active ingridients and what they do wich is informative and usefull - but then I still dont know what products to get really.

If I put it like this:
Lets say I´d want to spend about <50$/month on skincare concerning a generally "healthier" look, be it oral stuff or creams, what do I try first?

My two cents:
In the morning use this:
http://www.neotericcosmetics.com/produc ... spx?iid=78

It's about $15 and lasts about a month and a half. Many grocery and drug stores carry this product, I know that the Rite Aid chain here, as well as the Albertsons and Ralphs (Kroger) carry it as well.

In the evening, use this:
http://store.skinbiology.com/catalog/in ... 250&id=702

The 4oz is a better deal, but even the 1oz at $22.95 will last well over a month... which means that both products together easily fall under the $50/month threshold. You need to order this online.

 

[metalheaddude]

Re: Thanks

Hey, thanks for the posts everyone. Really interesting! However, I´ve read the thread three times and still dont really know what to get.

Information overkill perhaps. :mrgreen:
A lot of you have listed active ingridients and what they do wich is informative and usefull - but then I still dont know what products to get really.

If I put it like this:
Lets say I´d want to spend about <50$/month on skincare concerning a generally "healthier" look, be it oral stuff or creams, what do I try first?

My two cents:
In the morning use this:
http://www.neotericcosmetics.com/produc ... spx?iid=78

It's about $15 and lasts about a month and a half. Many grocery and drug stores carry this product, I know that the Rite Aid chain here, as well as the Albertsons and Ralphs (Kroger) carry it as well.

In the evening, use this:
http://store.skinbiology.com/catalog/in ... 250&id=702

The 4oz is a better deal, but even the 1oz at $22.95 will last well over a month... which means that both products together easily fall under the $50/month threshold. You need to order this online.

Gardener are you metrosexual?

 

[The Gardener]

I've been accused of such by certain company...............

But you wouldn't know it if you saw me. It only extends as far as personal upkeep and diet. Beyond that, I'm a typical Levis and t-shirt wearing American.