American Health care reform protests

[s.a.f]

Nobody wants that Aussie, it's all about the costs. Medical care is so expensive!!!

Sure I wish ALL medical care was FREE and available to EVERYONE. Ok, now how in the heck do we do it? I don't know because I have no idea what is in those large pending bills in Congress and, like I said above, why is Congress exempted and why is tort reform left out?

You know, maybe we're looking at the wrong people to solve this? Maybe we should look to botanists to develop a tree that grows money?

Well we manage it!
Like optimist said how many times over have you already paid for this in Iraq?
A developed country that cant afford to look after its its own citizens when they get sick or injured is ridiculous. What is this the middle ages?

 

[Bryan]

A developed country that cant afford to look after its its own citizens when they get sick or injured is ridiculous. What is this the middle ages?

Exactly! Why do right-wing conservatives limit their hysterical views ONLY to the possible introduction of universal healthcare? Why don't they say similar thaings about all the other institutions which we already have in place for the common good?

"Damned liberals!! They steal money from all of us in the form of taxes, just to pay for police forces and roads and bridges and national defense! How Pinko-Commie can you get?? If one of our citizens needs the help of a policeman, he can damned-well hire his own private police force, and not make all the rest of us pay for it! Sheesh!!"

 

[somone uk]

i read obama's fiscal policies he cut taxes for most people on low incomes and introduced free healthcare, yet there is a majority against socialised healthcare are the poor and low income families
so in other words obama has given them more money and reduced their household expenses (in terms of healthcare costs) and these are the people who are against it
i find this ironic, i thought americans LIKE money

i was once told there is only 2 reasons someone would vote republican that be a reason of stupidity or because they are rich and like the tax cut
i think the same applies to voting against socialised taxation

 

[somone uk]

What about the option to opt out of the system?

And as for extended families, many people don't get along with their in laws. Also some people don't like their parents. I agree nursing homes is not the answer.

I just want disaster insurance in case I'm hit by a car or struck by lightning. I'm very good at taking care of myself and doing preventative stuff. I check my blood pressure at the grocery store for free. I don't want to be enslaved and have to pay for other people's health problems when they don't take care of themselves. Too many fat people, alcoholics, and smokers in this country.

another way to see it smokers and drinkers usually get tobacco and alcohol duty so that way they pay for the extra risk
the risk of obesity is negligible compared to the other 2 (smoking is more likely to give you heart problems than being fat)

If national health care is so good, why do you have to force people to take it?

does that mean george bush was a good president?
i mean he did win 2 elections
of course another way to explain this is because a lot (not all) of americans are just pants on head stupid

 

[Bryan]

i read obama's fiscal policies he cut taxes for most people on low incomes and introduced free healthcare, yet there is a majority against socialised healthcare...

i was once told there is only 2 reasons someone would vote republican that be a reason of stupidity or because they are rich and like the tax cut...

As Bill Maher has very astutely pointed out a number of times on his show, the Republicans have scored one HUGE victory by convincing poor people not to VOTE THEIR INTERESTS. The pernicious influence of popular right-wing talk radio has helped convince poor people in this country to think and vote along the same shameful lines as rich Americans.

 

[The Gardener]

As Bill Maher has very astutely pointed out a number of times on his show, the Republicans have scored one HUGE victory by convincing poor people not to VOTE THEIR INTERESTS. The pernicious influence of popular right-wing talk radio has helped convince poor people in this country to think and vote along the same shameful lines as rich Americans.

Man, is that ever true, but I think its even worse. The thing that boggles MY mind is this anti-"socialism" mania that has the far right wingers frothing at the mouth.

Socialism?!

In socialism, money is taken FROM economic elites and redistributed TO the citizenry. Obama is doing just the OPPOSITE! He's taking taxpayer money, and giving it TO economic elites... investment bankers, insurance companies, car industry, etc.
In socialism, when industries are nationalized, the profits are socialized as well and used to offset tax revenues. Obama is doing just the OPPOSITE! When he has nationalized industries (banks, car industry, etc) he is letting them KEEP their profits! In effect, he has TAKEN taxpayer money and used it to subsidize industries so that the elites who have ownership interests can reap profits!

And, just to be clear who is profiting here, ordinary "common" shareholders of these firms rarely get any profit or a very good dividend. It is the PREFERRED stockholders who get the majority of the monies, and who have the best voting interests. And, preferred stock holders are the upper crust of wealthy in this country.

ALL of this, its the exact opposite of socialism. It's an oligarchy! The taxpayers are being absolutely raped, having their tax revenues being redirected from government services to subsidies to rich people who have lost their shirts. The taxpayers are also being saddled down with humongous debts to accomplish the same goals.

Given the trillions that the government seemingly has no problem whatsoever giving to the uber rich on Wall Street, I don't understand why its such a big "socialist crisis" to toss the ordinary folk a bone and help us with health care costs.

The priorities of the nation are pretty much being laid out for all to see clearly.

 

[Old Baldy]

What has me frothing at the mouth is the fact that the communist ideology is in control right now. The mindset is one of total collectivism and redistribution of wealth. And it ain't only Congress, listen to the collective jibberish posted right here in this thread.

Another case in point....Bill Maher.....nuff said about that. The guy is a left wing loon. That guy probably cried a bucket of tears when the old Soviet Union collapsed. I wonder if Bill Ayers is his hero?

When 60 percent of the public doesn't favor this healthcare bill, yet our Congress critters go behind closed doors, give out bribes and go against what the substantial majority want....just to pass their communist agenda....yes, I froth at the mouth.

I long for the days of individual accomplishment and shudder when I realize that the recent "collective" communist mentality is in control right now.

Like I said, which has been curiously ignored, why did Congress exempt themselves from this bill and why have the lawyers dodged any tort reform? Obvious corruption and evidence that the healthcare bill isn't all that good. If it was so good, why isn't Congress a part of it?

And where is the promised transparency? What is in these 2,000+ page bills drafted by the Senate and House? Why are they not published for public review?

Joseph Stalin would be extremely proud of the way our current left wing loon leaders are running the country right now.

(Well, he would not be happy at all with how the communists in power right now are protecting us from terrorists jumping on airplanes with bombs in their underwear though. I'm sure he would have dealt with those two idiots Napolitano and Holder differently than Obama is. Even though Obama is not happy at all with those loons.)

That's ok though, we individualists will get alot of our country back in 2010. The democrats will be hammered in the upcoming elections and rightfully so.

Unlike most of the people posting in this thread, most Americans despise communism and many realize their hatred of Bush caused them to cast stupid votes.

Good bye Senators Dodd and Dorgan. Good bye Senators Reid and Blanche Lincoln. Goodbye....approximately 40 communist Representatives.

Oh, we freedom minded people will get a large portion of our country back in 2010. Our brief experiment into communism will end at that time.

Thank God!!

 

[Old Baldy]

Gardener: Where in the heck is Obama going to get all this money he wants to give to the elites and those who don't do anything productive?

Do you guys think money grows on trees?

He'll get it off of the backs of people who are productive and people in future generations who are productive.

There is no tree that grows money and his vision of how America should look is the vision of a collectivist.

 

[The Gardener]

Gardener: Where in the heck is Obama going to get all this money he wants to give to the elites and those who don't do anything productive?

Do you guys think money grows on trees?

He'll get it off of the backs of people who are productive and people in future generations who are productive.

There is no tree that grows money and his vision of how America should look is the vision of a collectivist.

Don't get me wrong... Obama is being wildly irresponsible and I am NO longer in ANY way a supporter of him. I am and always have been an economic conservative.

Here's my beef, Old Baldy.... You need to remember that during the time of the past election, Bush had initiated and supported the TARP bailouts which were pretty much a seven hundred billion blank check handed to the investment banking establishment of this country. That's not "collectivism", Old Baldy, that is socialism FOR THE RICH. Taking hard earned taxpayer money from individual citizens and giving it to this nations oligarchs and plutocracy.

And this is not the FIRST instance of Republican socialism for the rich... I can go back to the repeal of Glass Steagall, to Bush's tax cuts to dividend earners (while wage earners' incomes remained stagnant), Reagan's blanket amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, Bush Sr's renewal of Chinese Most Favored Nation status despite their brutality at Tiananmen Square, Bush Jr's defacto acceptance of illegal immigration, his refusal to fortify the border after 9/11, and his curtailing of federal workplace raids by ICE.

All of these actions served to break the back of the American worker, and served to fatten the margins of the plutocracy.

Barack Obama is a traitor. I am a free market economic conservative and I voted for Obama because during his campaign he railed against handouts to the rich, he promised that the government would treat working folks and the rich with an equal hand and he has betrayed this promise. Obama is, and continues to take increasing taxpayer money, and saddle the working class taxpayers with increasing taxpayer debt, in order to fatten the balance sheets of the rich in this country. In short, he has taken George W Bush's policies and expanded them, in an exponential fashion.

What has me frothing at the mouth is the fact that the communist ideology is in control right now. The mindset is one of total collectivism and redistribution of wealth. And it ain't only Congress, listen to the collective jibberish posted right here in this thread.

You're WRONG, Old Baldy. You speak of "redistribution of wealth"... I ask you, how exactly is wealth being redistributed? It is being taken FROM taxpayers, and given TO bankers (Citi, JPM, Goldman), insurance companies (AIG) and the auto industry.

That's not "communism", Old Baldy. In "communism", money is taken FROM the wealthy and given TO the proletariat. This is NOT to say I am in agreement with communism, I state this only to correct your interpretation of what is going on. What is happening here is a fleecing of working Americans by the elites. That's not "communism", that's oligarchical fascism. It is a conversion of a multi-layered middle class into an banana republic-style plantation economy. And it has been going on for decades under leadership of BOTH political parties.

Old Baldy, where in Karl Marx's writings does he state that in "communism", money and wealth should be taken from the workers of a nation and given to the rich?

 

[Optimistic]

What has me frothing at the mouth is the fact that the communist ideology is in control right now. The mindset is one of total collectivism and redistribution of wealth. And it ain't only Congress, listen to the collective jibberish posted right here in this thread.

Another case in point....Bill Maher.....nuff said about that. The guy is a left wing loon. That guy probably cried a bucket of tears when the old Soviet Union collapsed. I wonder if Bill Ayers is his hero?

When 60 percent of the public doesn't favor this healthcare bill, yet our Congress critters go behind closed doors, give out bribes and go against what the substantial majority want....just to pass their communist agenda....yes, I froth at the mouth.

I long for the days of individual accomplishment and shudder when I realize that the recent "collective" communist mentality is in control right now.

Like I said, which has been curiously ignored, why did Congress exempt themselves from this bill and why have the lawyers dodged any tort reform? Obvious corruption and evidence that the healthcare bill isn't all that good. If it was so good, why isn't Congress a part of it?

And where is the promised transparency? What is in these 2,000+ page bills drafted by the Senate and House? Why are they not published for public review?

Joseph Stalin would be extremely proud of the way our current left wing loon leaders are running the country right now.

(Well, he would not be happy at all with how the communists in power right now are protecting us from terrorists jumping on airplanes with bombs in their underwear though. I'm sure he would have dealt with those two idiots Napolitano and Holder differently than Obama is. Even though Obama is not happy at all with those loons.)

That's ok though, we individualists will get alot of our country back in 2010. The democrats will be hammered in the upcoming elections and rightfully so.

Unlike most of the people posting in this thread, most Americans despise communism and many realize their hatred of Bush caused them to cast stupid votes.

Good bye Senators Dodd and Dorgan. Good bye Senators Reid and Blanche Lincoln. Goodbye....approximately 40 communist Representatives.

Oh, we freedom minded people will get a large portion of our country back in 2010. Our brief experiment into communism will end at that time.

Thank God!!

Oh dear ! What a prime example of "American" hysteria regarding left wing political philosophy !

"The Commies are coming! Get ready to shoot!"

A little maturity is needed here I think. Right wing, left wing and centre politics all have attributes that are good and bad. A modern democracy addresses this and the challenge has always been how to increase economic growth without increasing the widening gap between rich and poor. Creating a more equal society to counteract the harshness that unbridalled capitalism inevitably produces is quite a nobel cause and isn't called Communism. Communism relies on total State control of everything and has no place in a democracy.

We're talking here about health care for the citizens of the richest nation on earth. To the citizens of European nations what is reported in the following links is disturbing:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 72580.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... healthcare

 

[Old Baldy]

I hate to change the subject of this thread but please let me ask this totally unrelated question.

I have an old Colt SAA from a friend that was made in 1883 so I can do a strip down and detailed cleaning.

Everything stripped down well except the cylinder base pin. It appears to be "oxidized" in place. It could be rust, dried powder and oil fouling, etc. But it is probably oxidized in place from long storage without proper lube by my dumba** friend.

The cylinder base pin goes through the cylinder and attaches the cylinder to the frame. It allows the cylinder to spin while firing. You get what I mean.

Any advice on how to "unfreeze" this metal part? (I have been soaking the gun in a homemade solution people have been using for decades to remove dirt, carbon fouling. dried oil, oxidization etc. It is much like a penetrating oil, like Kroil, that I have also used on this stuck part.)

Any advice on how to maybe remove a "rusted", frozen piece would be greatly appreciated. (Or do I just have to hope a very long soaking will loosen this oxidation?)

Thanks for any advice. This is getting frustrating.

 

[Old Baldy]

All I could find out from various gunsmiths was to do what I am doing (i.e., soak the gun in solvents and oils for many, many, many days and hope this releases the oxidized parts).

Every day, tap the part that I am trying to release lightly with a brass hammer and put the revolver back into the solvent mixture, so on and so forth.

Sorry for going off topic.

Carry on guys. I've spoken my piece on the national healthcare debacle.

 

[Bryan]

Old Baldy, have you seen Michael Moore's terrific film Sicko? I strongly recommend that you see it. It builds a powerful case for universal healthcare!

 

[Old Baldy]

Old Baldy, have you seen Michael Moore's terrific film Sicko? I strongly recommend that you see it. It builds a powerful case for universal healthcare!

Yes. My main concern is healthcare is it is just too darn expensive nowadays.

We have to do something about that as Medicare is going bankrupt. Let's address the money concern first along with getting those uninsured some type of coverage before we totally revamp the healthcare system.

Incrementally is the way to go IMHO. (Plus, Congress should not be allowed to exempt themselves from any plan.)

Btw, you're good at chemistry stuff. How would free up metal parts stuck by rust or other oxidation? Thanks for any opinion.

 

[HughJass]

just melt it down and turn into a piece of contemporary art Baldy



you'll feel much better

 

[oni]

All I could find out from various gunsmiths was to do what I am doing (i.e., soak the gun in solvents and oils for many, many, many days and hope this releases the oxidized parts).

Every day, tap the part that I am trying to release lightly with a brass hammer and put the revolver back into the solvent mixture, so on and so forth.

Sorry for going off topic.

Carry on guys. I've spoken my piece on the national healthcare debacle.

Heated ultrasonic bath...........................................you can get solutions for them that are designed for removing oxidation on metal parts. :whistle:

 

[Old Baldy]

Thanks oni. I ended up doing something similar with my solvent mix and after a 7 day soak, coupled with a heated solution, etc., I finally freed the base pin and base pin collar.

ETA: It looks like my views on healthcare have prevailed due to the epic win by Scott Brown in Massachusetts.

Back to the drawing board commies.

 

[EasyEd]

Thanks oni. I ended up doing something similar with my solvent mix and after a 7 day soak, coupled with a heated solution, etc., I finally freed the base pin and base pin collar.

ETA: It looks like my views on healthcare have prevailed due to the epic win by Scott Brown in Massachusetts.

Back to the drawing board commies.

Yup. I voted for Brown yesterday...

 

[Bryan]

Yup. I voted for Brown yesterday...

Why'd you do that?

 

[somone uk]

ok everyone is having a go at obama because he is "not doing anything" but the fact is fixing a country in a year is like me sending you a shattered car and asking you to fix it in 5 minutes
epecially in a recession