Advice Needed From Those Who Use Tape For Bonding.

Leduc

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I have just learned that Ghost Bond is the safest liquid adhesive for bonding hair pieces. Is there a tape out there that might also be considered safe in terms of containing the least amount of harmful chemicals?

One of the liquid adhesives has this in their Safety Data Sheet. Since this is a liquid glue designed specifically for hair systems and wigs, how do they expect users to "avoid contact with skin"? Am I just being too paranoid here?


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Noah

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Hi Leduc

I think you are over-engineering this. There are very few aspects of life that don't have some risks attached to them. Tens of thousands of men in the developed world wear hair systems and are using these adhesives day-in-day-out, and have been doing so for decades in some cases. Yet there is no buzz out there about them being toxic or having caused injury. I think in this highly communicative networked world that is a pretty reassuring sign. I'm sure if you analyse the contents of toothpaste or hairgel or suncream you could find ingredients to fret about too.

I am pretty sure the "avoid contact with skin" language has been put there by some US lawyer. When you sell stuff in a predatory and litigious environment like the US, you do whatever you can to keep the hyenas at bay, however nonsensical. That is why the shampoo bottles tell you to consult a physician before using, and the ski resorts tell you to avoid slippery surfaces.

Noah
 

Leduc

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Hi Leduc

I think you are over-engineering this. There are very few aspects of life that don't have some risks attached to them. Tens of thousands of men in the developed world wear hair systems and are using these adhesives day-in-day-out, and have been doing so for decades in some cases. Yet there is no buzz out there about them being toxic or having caused injury. I think in this highly communicative networked world that is a pretty reassuring sign. I'm sure if you analyse the contents of toothpaste or hairgel or suncream you could find ingredients to fret about too.

I am pretty sure the "avoid contact with skin" language has been put there by some US lawyer. When you sell stuff in a predatory and litigious environment like the US, you do whatever you can to keep the hyenas at bay, however nonsensical. That is why the shampoo bottles tell you to consult a physician before using, and the ski resorts tell you to avoid slippery surfaces.

Noah

I'm sure you're right Noah. After many decades of use something would have gone public by now if there were serious risks involved or harm being done.
Any suggestions for a good tape I could try? Salon gave me a roll of Walker Sensi-Tak to try for potential allergies, but I found it weak, especially after removing and re-applying again. It definitely wouldn't last more than a couple of days or survive a shower.
 

Leduc

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@Leduc : LaceFX is the best I've used, but it causes my scalp to itch.

Back to Supertape.

Thanks cottonReville, I'll give it a try. Supertape claims up to 40 days hold, will it also withstand a shower? I'll be cleaning and re-applying every 7-10 days so this sounds very positive. Do you have a reliable and trusted supplier that you could recommend? There's too many to choose from online.
 

cottonReville

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I don't think Supertape has anything on LaceFX, whose hold, packaging, everything is fantastic.

Too bad it irritates me. It's medical grade and hypoallergenic, but that's the case.

As far as hold , I never wear for longer than 5 to 7 days so I can't say.

Supertape is very good.I order it on Amazon, but regardless of the supplier, some of the tapes are stuck together. Not so much so that they can't be separated, but maybe the adhesion is compromised a bit.

Either way, I've never used a tape whose adhesion wasn't strong. I shower, sweat profusely in them & in the summer was swimming a lot.

These days, I'm more inclined to remove a piece every night and reattach w the same tape. I'll wear 2 days, maybe 3. I like removal.

Thanks cottonReville, I'll give it a try. Supertape claims up to 40 days hold, will it also withstand a shower? I'll be cleaning and re-applying every 7-10 days so this sounds very positive. Do you have a reliable and trusted supplier that you could recommend? There's too many to choose from online.
 

TooBad

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Hi Leduc

I think you are over-engineering this. There are very few aspects of life that don't have some risks attached to them. Tens of thousands of men in the developed world wear hair systems and are using these adhesives day-in-day-out, and have been doing so for decades in some cases. Yet there is no buzz out there about them being toxic or having caused injury. I think in this highly communicative networked world that is a pretty reassuring sign. I'm sure if you analyse the contents of toothpaste or hairgel or suncream you could find ingredients to fret about too.

I am pretty sure the "avoid contact with skin" language has been put there by some US lawyer. When you sell stuff in a predatory and litigious environment like the US, you do whatever you can to keep the hyenas at bay, however nonsensical. That is why the shampoo bottles tell you to consult a physician before using, and the ski resorts tell you to avoid slippery surfaces.

Noah
Hey Noah,
Not looking to pick a fight with you as I respect you..and you always speak intelligently. You are also probably the most helpful person on the board.

I'd like your opinion with this perspective in mind.... We have 325 million people in the US ...if we agreed that there's say 10k hair wearers....thats .00003 of the population....

I'm sure we could both agree not 100% of those people are using acrylic bonds... to keep it fair lets say 50% are. That's .000015 of the population that exposed to the acrylic bonds.

Let's make the assumption that half of them got cancer that was directly influenced by chemical adhesives. Now we're speaking of .0000075 of the population.

You'd still take the position that an obscenely insignificantly small amount of people such as that would be newsworthy or noticed by the medical field as being directly caused by one factor such as an acrylic Bond?

I did two years in Hematology Oncology. One thing I can say without a doubt is when one gets cancer we can never put a finger on exactly what triggered it. There are many studies showing that half of lung cancer patients have never smoked.

But we can say, as its proven over and over... Is when we take 1000 non-smokers and 1000 smokers the prevalence of cancer in the smoking group is significantly higher...in some studies 75% higher than the non-smoking group. This is how we conclude that smoking is not necessarily cause and effect meaning that you are guaranteed lung cancer..... nor does not smoking guarantee you will not get lung cancer... but it cannot be ignored that it significantly increases your risk.

That's been my point the whole conversation. I'm not saying everyone's going to get it, but the risks are real.

Yes, I agree there are risks with everything from food, water, environmental exposures, genetics, viruses, bacteria...... NO argument there. My position is certainly not to stay indoors 24/7 as a hermit and eat only organic food............But if we have the ability to limit our exposure to things that we know increase our risk... that's a wise move.... Fortunately enough in the Hair world we have options such as ghost Bond and water based adhesives that don't contain the chemicals that acrylics do.

My concern has been about the long-term effects with regard to cancer. Toxic just means poisonous.... and it's typically acute and noticed/treated quickly.

I'm sure we've all had a bout of food poisoning or sun poisoning. It doesn't mean you're going to die.. and most often you don't.
Typically when you remove the offender causing toxicity the person will recover, with none or minimal long-term effects.

That's not the case with cancer....and that's why I'm stressing the risks are not something to take lightly.
 
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Nostab2

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Hey Noah, not looking to pick a fight with you as I respect you..and you always speak intelligently. You are also probably the most helpful person on the board to members.

Just wanted to ask you in this perspective... with 325 million people in the US ...if we agreed that there's say 10k hair wearers....thats .00003 of the population....

Let's make the assumption that half of them got cancer that was directly influenced by chemical adhesives. Now we're speaking of .000015 of the population.

You'd still take the position that an insignificantly small amount of people such as that would be newsworthy or noticed by the medical field?

I did two years in Hematology Oncology. One thing I can say without a doubt is when one gets cancer we can never put a finger on exactly what triggered it. There are many studies showing just as many non smokers( total people) get lung cancer as smokers.

But what we can say, as its proven over and over... Is when we take 1000 non-smokers and 1000 smokers the prevalence of cancer in the smoking group is significantly higher...in some studies 75% higher than the non-smoking group. This is how we draw the conclusion that smoking is not necessarily cause and effect that you are guaranteed lung cancer..... nor does not smoking guarantee you will not get lung cancer... but it cannot be ignored that it significantly increases your chances.

That's been my point the whole conversation. I'm not saying everyone's going to get it, but the risks are real.

Yes I agree there are risks with everything from food, environmental exposures, genetics.... NO argument there. My position is certainly not to stay indoors 24/7 and eat organic food. But if we have the ability to limit our exposure to things that we know increase our risk... that's a wise move.... Fortunately enough in the Hair world we have options such as ghost Bond and water based adhesives that don't contain these chemicals that acrylics do.
I still cant believe you think only 5000 people in the us have hair replacement..hes right , its tens of thousands. Hair club alone has way more then 5000 customers, are you forgetting the women who have wigs?
 

TooBad

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Oh I'm sorry you uped it on this thread to 10k, apologies


Not because I agree.... I said 10k so that I'm not being argumentative and because Noah had referenced 10k. Albeit he referenced tens of thousands worldwide. I'm referring to the US...
My point doesn't change nor lose validity..... If it makes everyone happy let's say 50,000 in the US...... That makes it .0000375

The number is arbitrary as neither one of us can definitively say exactly how many. The total is Irrelevant.. The percentage is what's relevant.. and the fact that it is an extremely small percentage of the population wearing.

But I just went up 10x my figure.... and it's still only .0000375 of the population.

You still think we would know all about the problems people are having in such an extremely small subset of the population?
 
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cottonReville

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@TooBad I also know @Noah is the most informed person on this forum.

How old are you & what kind of life do you live? I never even considered the toxicity of toupee tape till seeing your thread. I just don't see how something like the toxicity of toupee tape would enter a person's mind!

I've always used lotion w/ SPF on my skin and wondered if it's bad in general, but also bad in unprovable ways. (When it melts or when I sweat does the lotion, in small amounts, enter my eyes and mouth etc & enhance my chances of getting this or that?)

But thinking like that is a joke - I'm much more likely to die from other causes, as are you!
 

TooBad

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@TooBad I also know @Noah is the most informed person on this forum.

How old are you & what kind of life do you live? I never even considered the toxicity of toupee tape till seeing your thread. I just don't see how something like the toxicity of toupee tape would enter a person's mind!

I've always used lotion w/ SPF on my skin and wondered if it's bad in general, but also bad in unprovable ways. (When it melts or when I sweat does the lotion, in small amounts, enter my eyes and mouth etc & enhance my chances of getting this or that?)

But thinking like that is a joke - I'm much more likely to die from other causes, as are you!
@TooBad I also know @Noah is the most informed person on this forum.

How old are you & what kind of life do you live? I never even considered the toxicity of toupee tape till seeing your thread. I just don't see how something like the toxicity of toupee tape would enter a person's mind!

I've always used lotion w/ SPF on my skin and wondered if it's bad in general, but also bad in unprovable ways. (When it melts or when I sweat does the lotion, in small amounts, enter my eyes and mouth etc & enhance my chances of getting this or that?)

But thinking like that is a joke - I'm much more likely to die from other causes, as are you!
That's your opinion and right to think it's a joke. But to take chemicals that are used specifically in industrial adhesives that print specifically on their MSDS sheet not to get it on your skin.. Yet we apply them to the most absorbent part of your body which enters your bloodstream. I totally agree that lawyers write up things to cover your ***...but it's foolish to think a product is safe but they don't advertise it as safe, yet they put "don't get it on your skin" just in case something that won't happen happens? If it's safe and there's data to back it up you don't say not to put on your skin when that's it's intended purpose.

Contrary to what fire pants had said which is childish.. I am in fact a 42 year old double board-certified physian for the last 16 years with understudy in Hematology Oncology and molecular study. I am very familiar with the effects of exposure to chemicals. Exactly what you said can be applied to smoking too...hey there's all kind of things that can kill you enjoy yourself smoke... don't worry about condoms with the town ho... You have every right to say and do that. But that's not a wise way to think.... and it's not helpful to convince other people that there's no risk when that's just your opinion. I'll welcome you into Moffitt Cancer Center anytime you'd like.... you can speak many people that wish they could go back and make wiser decisions. A lot of people get cancer because they did not know the risks and they were unaware or the FDA cleared a product that was later found to be dangerous. There was nothing they could do. They didn't know there were risks associated. We have the information now regarding risks with these acrylic adhesives.. Some choose to snub nose at it. That in my opinion is foolish.

Shun danger.... if you know something is harmful you limit your exposure to it if you can. I assure you I used to think we're indestructible but we're not. I'm the furthest thing a worry wart. But I'm not ignorant or naive either.


I stress again people keep throwing around the word toxicity I'm not worried about toxicity toxicity is easy to treat and cure my concern is with long-term risks and cancer.


No risk is zero and long-term transdermal exposure to these chemicals is certainly far from zero.
 

TooBad

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Also as highly as I think of Noah, I don't necessarily equate tenure with automatic expertise.

Again I say this nicely as this whole thing is not for me to have arguments with people it's to share information so we may make the safest decision for ourselves.

But a statement such as... Well I don't think so... we would have heard something by now .....does not demonstrate being well-informed.

It's an opinion and one he's well entitled to have, but it's an opinion none the less.
 

Nostab2

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That's your opinion and right to think it's a joke. But to take chemicals that are used specifically in industrial adhesives that print specifically on their MSDS sheet not to get it on your skin.. Yet we apply them to the most absorbent part of your body which enters your bloodstream. I totally agree that lawyers write up things to cover your ***...but it's foolish to think a product is safe but they don't advertise it as safe, yet they put "don't get it on your skin" just in case something that won't happen happens? If it's safe and there's data to back it up you don't say not to put on your skin when that's it's intended purpose.

Contrary to what fire pants had said which is childish.. I am in fact a 42 year old double board-certified physian for the last 16 years with understudy in Hematology Oncology and molecular study. I am very familiar with the effects of exposure to chemicals. Exactly what you said can be applied to smoking too...hey there's all kind of things that can kill you enjoy yourself smoke... don't worry about condoms with the town ho... You have every right to say and do that. But that's not a wise way to think.... and it's not helpful to convince other people that there's no risk when that's just your opinion. I'll welcome you into Moffitt Cancer Center anytime you'd like.... you can speak many people that wish they could go back and make wiser decisions. A lot of people get cancer because they did not know the risks and they were unaware or the FDA cleared a product that was later found to be dangerous. There was nothing they could do. They didn't know there were risks associated. We have the information now regarding risks with these acrylic adhesives.. Some choose to snub nose at it. That in my opinion is foolish.

Shun danger.... if you know something is harmful you limit your exposure to it if you can. I assure you I used to think we're indestructible but we're not. I'm the furthest thing a worry wart. But I'm not ignorant or naive either.


I stress again people keep throwing around the word toxicity I'm not worried about toxicity toxicity is easy to treat and cure my concern is with long-term risks and cancer.


No risk is zero and long-term transdermal exposure to these chemicals is certainly far from zero.
Are you really a doctor?
 

TooBad

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Wow, suddenly it's so clear now. Why didn't you tell me this before?
You call me a know-it-all . I'm not speaking uninformed as you are. You make the biggest mistake anyone can, you underestimate the other guy and assume you know whom you're dealing with. That's not very polite for a Texan.

But again just like finding out whether adhesives or smoking caused the cancer ...it does not change the plan of treatment. Me boasting of my background does not change the facts.

Like I said, everybody is entitled to do what they want.... I've even said many times over that I've been using a clear acrylic bond for the last year. I'm just not ignorant to the risks.

But to think it would be common knowledge, the longterm health effects occurring with .0000375 of the population is preposterous.

Claims keep being made of how many people are wearing... Yet there's only two well-known/ main stream people on YouTube... Curtis and stick on hair. A couple others are popping up but it's certainly less than 5 fully involved. Look at the forums... there's not thousands of people on these hair replacement forums. There's probably 100k on vaping forums... That shows you how small the hair Community really is comparatively.....
 
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Leduc

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Not because I agree.... I said 10k so that I'm not being argumentative and because Noah had referenced 10k. Albeit he referenced tens of thousands worldwide. I'm referring to the US...
I'm just trying to prove a point.... if it makes everyone happy let's say 50,000...... That makes it .0000375

The number is arbitrary as neither one of us can definitively say exactly How many total there are is Irrelevant.. The percentage is what's relevant.. and the fact that it is an extremely small percentage of the population.

But I just went up 10x my figure and that means it's still only .0000375 of the population.

You still think we would all know about that insignificantly small amount of people that had a problem?

Correction to the math: 50,000 / 325,000,000 = 0.00015
Fascinating discussion. I was mostly concerned about whether I was psychologically ready to wear. The potential long term health risks never even crossed my mind. That being said, I was also a long term smoker, and those risks I was very well aware of.
 

TooBad

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Correction to the math: 50,000 / 325,000,000 = 0.00015
Fascinating discussion. I was mostly concerned about whether I was psychologically ready to wear. The potential long term health risks never even crossed my mind. That being said, I was also a long term smoker, and those risks I was very well aware of.
See this is my point. I'm up past 1am trying to be helpful on the board and you're pointing out things that are not only untrue but irrelevant as well.

Using your math would be assuming that 100% of hair where is use acrylic glue. If you read my post, 3rd paragraph... I stated we all know that's not true as many use white bonds. Let's assume for argument's sake of 50% use acrylic. Which is how you arrive at .000075

Not claiming to be perfect I can make a mistake but make sure you understand the statement on making before you try to correct something that's not wrong.

My original post is based on 10k but to appease and ignorant member I said let's bump it to 50k.

That number was then split in half twice 50% for people that use acrylic and 50% again for people that get cancer from it

I just feel like the responses is hey you forgot to carry a one... and I caught you... like that would even make a difference in the point, it just doesn't though. :)

Don't mean to get snippy with you but a couple members have me very irritated like it's a personal battle when it's not it's meant to help.

Also, that's something I've said over and over again... everyone has the right to make their own decision I'm just trying to make sure it's a well-informed decision and not an ignorant one.

Ignorance can be fixed with knowledge, stupidity cannot.

That's just a general statement, not at you :)
 
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