3038 Grafts Fue / Asmed - Koray Erdogan / 30th April | HairLossTalk Forums

3038 Grafts Fue / Asmed - Koray Erdogan / 30th April

Discussion in 'FUE | Follicular Unit Extraction Discussions' started by JeanLucBB, May 5, 2018.

  1. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Previously had a 3000 graft FUE at ASMED 12 months ago, linked here:

    https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...istanbul-3070-grafts-fue.104983/#post-1468928

    Overall very satisfied with the results from the first procedure, but still wanted to address the crown which was previously untouched, as well as density issues in some areas of the previous transplant, and create a slightly more aggressive hairline with more youthful closure at the temples, including an alteration to the overall design.

    Some background on my situation, I was initially a NW3V diffusing in a NW5 pattern that is very noticeable when wet but not an issue dry and with longer hair, 22 years old at the time, and had stabilised on finasteride. First procedure was solely for the hairline and created a slightly conservative Norwood 1.5-2 with 3070 grafts. My donor had roughly 9500 grafts to begin with and I am left with potentially another 2000-3000 after the second procedure, but the clinic suggested this is impossible to know for sure unless it is analysed 12 months down the track.

    In online consult 2000-2500 grafts were suggested for crown and frontal work, but in person Koray thought 3000 would be worthwhile to create a significant improvement in both the crown frontal third. Ultimately suggesting 1500 in the frontal third and 1500 in the crown. He also seemed impressed with the standard of my donor after the first procedure.

    Some stats on the second procedure:

    3038 grafts – Hair/Graft ratio: 2.1 (quite a bit lower than the first time round)
    Average Hair Thickness – 50 microns


    Singles - 557
    Doubles - 1709
    Triples - 697
    Quadruples - 74
    Quintuples - 1
    Sextuples - 0

    Minor points, this time I stayed at the hotel rather than the clinic and preferred it quite a bit. Very comfortable and calming, good food for very cheap prices and there's a lot of options for places to visit a quick walk away also. That said the clinic room was very convenient. Of course as with last time the clinic staff and my clinic supervisor were very accommodating.

    Another point, from a front view and in dimmer lighting the very tight buzz the clinic bring the hair down to reflected that the previous work looked very natural and had no visible density issues, although from a top view seen in the clinic photos there's a noticeable difference in density between the areas with natives and those previously implanted. Noticed the same in cases like Yas and acegik who both went for 2nd procedures at ASMED, although not a huge issue unless you're planning to constantly having people looking at the top of your scalp. The donor scarring from the first procedure was also clearly visible when the scalp was buzzed to a zero, not that this is a problem or unexpected as one shouldn't go in assuming FUE is scarless or that they could get away with a buzz that tight to begin with. Just a point to note.

    Hair was in significant need of a cut when going in for photos, so note it also didn't look its best.
     
    #1 JeanLucBB, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  2. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Before photos

    Unfortunately no good dry pics of the hairline as they left the hair down for some reason.
     

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  3. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Plan and afters
     

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  4. hanginginthewire

    hanginginthewire Senior Member

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    Congrats!

    How traumatic is it to shave your head yet again? Worth it in the long run but must be hard.

    Thanks a lot for sharing this info with everyone!
     
  5. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Completely emasculating, certainly no job interviews or meetups with tinder girls for at least a few months :(

    At least this time after the initial shed I'll have a decent hairline, last time round it looked god awful for 3.5 months.
     
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  6. Pablo234

    Pablo234 Member

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    Looks good. Are you confident this, combined with your remaining grafts left if needed will have you cured for next 10+ years ?
     
  7. abovedagame

    abovedagame Experienced Member

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    When you mention the top view density issues...is that a density mismatch or is the angle of the transplanted grafts off? I can't tell 100%
     
  8. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Density 100%, nothing to do with angles. Realistically you can't achieve the same level as the natives behind it. Also the fact that the implanted hairs aren't miniaturising and are thicker than naturally occurring hairline hairs due to the area they are from creates some contrast.

    If the yield of this procedure is up to the standard of the last one, then I don't foresee issues over the next ten years.
     
    #8 JeanLucBB, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  9. abovedagame

    abovedagame Experienced Member

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    Your scalp looks healthier than last time when you have surgery. What shampoos do u rotate?
     
  10. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    @JeanLucBB whats your familys hair history like?

    i forget how aggressive your hair loss what

    also do you have a plan if you ever need to stop finasteride, either cause of sides that may come up or other reasons?
     
  11. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Pura dor gold, regenpeure NT cycle on/off. Use Nizoral twice a week after after the first shampoo as well.
     
  12. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    All NW5s on both sides, but none of the bastards lost any hair until their 30s unlike me.

    I doubt I’ll have to stop using fina, if I did I’d probably get another 2500 grafts safely out of he donor for the rest of the scalp, then SMP for illusion of density. Plus 1000 beard if I really needed it. Majority of hair on top at this point will be transplants.

    More scared about having to stop fina and having a crash than being on it indefinitely tbh.
     
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  13. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    you think something could have triggered your hair loss earlier, like diet or some shit. or maybe u got some random relatives you dont know about who had the more aggressive gene as well?
     
  14. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    I suspect DHT related, not sure the direct link but I had a beard and significant body hair when I was like 12.

    Couldn’t have been diet, eat way healthier than 95% of the population.

    I would say that when I started lifting weights it significantly increased the rate of loss, seen plenty of studies backing this possibility up too.
     
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  15. DoctorHouse

    DoctorHouse Senior Member

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    Wow, you started puberty really early. If Nick Shell were here he would say that is one reason. I was a late bloomer and I have minor hair loss. My dad was losing hair when he was only 17 and is now a NW6/7. His dad had the same pattern. My brother is going to be one of those guys that went from a NW2 at 40 to a NW4/5 by the time he reaches his 60's. He uses no treatments and wonders why my hair is so thick.
     
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  16. Pablo234

    Pablo234 Member

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    Congrats on treating the problem early , and I wish you all the best to enjoy the rest of your youth now!

    Does it/did it bother you how the techs do a lot of the work at asmed? I’m not disputing their capability , but there’s a guy on YouTube who Im following at the moment after his surgery at asmed, and he said he was dissapointed at the fact fact doctor koray wasn’t involved as much as he expected.

    Remaining grafts and beard grafts should suffice any gaps that may appear over the next few years , I’d be pretty content if I were you
     
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  17. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    LOL I suspect he'd be right on that. Wondering when his shtick will wear thin, personally bored of it but his subs keep skyrocketing.
     
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  18. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Not at all concerned on the tech issue for a few reasons. The reality is that you don't need 6 years of med school to perform the very mechanical, labour intensive and precise action of extracting a graft, or implanting a graft. By splitting the surgery into an extraction team, an implantation team and the surgeon making incisions which is the most artistically and aesthetic aspect of the surgery, you're minimising fatigue, and allowing each member/group to maximise their skill at their specific part. It also allows the surgeon to perform multiple surgeries a day to maximise profit and economic competitiveness to other clinics while still maintaining a very high level of quality control. The techs at Lorenzo's and Erdogan's clinics have years of experience before they touch a patients head, and their clinics have a very low turnover. These techs are without a doubt more experienced than US surgeons who are only doing a few FUE surgeries a week.

    The reality is that less stress, physical exertion from the surgeon and more money for the clinic to spend on maintaining high standards in their clinic with the most modern equipment (not the case for even high quality US surgeons, take a look at their clinics) is only a good thing. A surgeons most important jobs are to design overall clinic protocol (which significantly differ across clinics), the clinic itself, train staff, deal with business issues relating to producing the best possible results consistently with a high level of service, and then do consults, hairline design and incisions. If it streamlines the business, reduces fatigue and allows the clinic to treat more patients without dropping the quality of results, no one who has thought it through should criticise it. The only way for doctor only FUE clinics to deal with fatigue is to drastically lower the amount of grafts they can do per day, and drastically increase costs. This is the reality.

    Also consider some of the others using this approach of tech extraction and implantation, with surgeon consultation, hairline design and incisions: Feriduni, Freitas, Lorenzo, Hasson+Wong, Rahal. 98% of US surgeon in the US are doing all aspects of the surgery (legally they have to) and 98% aren't at the level of Feriduni, Freitas, Lorenzo or Erdogan. Only Konior and Baubac are at that level, and neither do high graft numbers via FUE. They're also vastly more expensive than these other clinics. It's not just a Turkish surgeon cheaping out which is how people who haven't used their head assume, it's simply the best means of producing consistent megassession results at a price that isn't available only to those who are excessively rich, or only need a small number of grafts and have a low probability of further loss.

    There are benefits to doctor only if you want a more tailored approach with low graft numbers, want the extra guarantee of quality, want to lower points of failure, but it's not an automatic guarantee of quality. Otherwise paying 200% more for a US surgeon doing the whole procedure than you would with Lorenzo or Erdogan is just stupid. In my case as someone approaching a NW5 it would have been nonsensical to a surgeon who is doing every aspect of the surgery, its simply not efficient or cost effective.

    btw can you link the youtube guy out of interest?
     
    #18 JeanLucBB, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  19. sunchyme1

    sunchyme1 Senior Member My Regimen

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    @JeanLucBB mate those buzz cuts just before surgery....when did you cut your hair, like a day before? zero guard?
     
  20. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Na as soon as they buzzed the head they drew the blue lines on which made it hard to look at things properly. Tried to get a few right before but the lightning wasn't really showing it accurately.

    Definitely though wouldn't aim to do a buzzcut with a transplant, the donor hairs don't blend well enough when short and the density won't be the same as natives. From the front it looks fine,, only when someone looks at a top view would they notice. Also even at 4-5 days growth the scarring is noticeable. FUE with SMP in recipient and in donor scars with buzz would definitely look good though.
     
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