21 Years Of Finasteride/ Dutasteride ( Since 1998, Duta Since 2002).

[MrPortugal]

I stopped finasteride last year and now I still sides sleep problems, frquent pee and erections problems but im improving so I don't boring to much

But I'm using Minoxidil and works better then finasteride for me

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Finasteride-induced depression is a rare event possibly occuring in predisposed individuals. Not every finasteride user is some depressed guy. %70 lower dihydrotestosterone is not the same thing as %70 lower testosterone. 5 alpha reductase type 2 is mainly localized on the genital skin, hair follicles and liver. Its inhibition do not promote inflammation in the liver whereas 5AR1 inhibition is associated with metabolic disturbances. We now know that finasteride do not cause sleep problems, dementia and metabolic alteration. We cannot say the same for dutasteride because it inhibits 5AR1 and it seems like it is more of an important enzyme than 5AR2. I believe your problems are mostly related to your long term use of dutasteride and you wouldn't have suffered the same side effects had you used finasteride instead of dutasteride. My own opinion is finasteride is safe in the long run while dutasteride is not and more studies needed.

Jesus, I strongly suggest you to READ :
1) What is the actual fuction of DHT in the whole boy
2) On how many reaction the 5AR2 participate

Without you knowing this, it have really none sense on enter into a discussion .
See how wrong you are :
The risk of dementia with the use of 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28716218

 

[dr75]

Jesus, I strongly suggest you to READ :
1) What is the actual fuction of DHT in the whole boy
2) On how many reaction the 5AR2 participate

Without you knowing this, it have really none sense on enter into a discussion .
See how wrong you are :
The risk of dementia with the use of 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28716218

I know its functions and i even opened a thread on HairLossTalk.com about the study you posted. You need to understand the term clinically significant. I know there are many reactions that 5ar2 catalyzes. What matters is how they affect humans and whether they can be tolerated by the organism.

"however this risk was nonsignificant among the men with the longest exposure to 5ARIs (HR 1.06, 95% CI 0.98-1.14)."

 

[jamesbooker1975]

It's a fact at this point, I mean there are small but vital differences between finasteride and dutasteride, and the differences are basically why one is fda approved and why one isn't, it's really that simple.

No, the only thing why Dutasteride is not approve is cause Glaxo was smart enough to understand the risk on suppressing a NORMAL hormone on the whole body. Which merck don't . Glaxo never did the phase 3 in USA . Also, in 2000s there was more knowledge about what 5 alpha reductase and DHT do on the body.
The problem is not in the DHT or the levels, the facts is that you are blocking and hormone without even checking the hormone levels !!!! where is the coherence with it ? The problems are our damn follicles, DHT is not the " evil hormone" as it was thought on early 90s

 

[g.i joey]

No, the only thing why Dutasteride is not approve is cause Glaxo was smart enough to understand the risk on suppressing a NORMAL hormone on the whole body. Which merck don't . Glaxo never did the phase 3 in USA . Also, in 2000s there was more knowledge about what 5 alpha reductase and DHT do on the body.
The problem is not in the DHT or the levels, the facts is that you are blocking and hormone without even checking the hormone levels !!!! where is the coherence with it ? The problems are our damn follicles, DHT is not the " evil hormone" as it was thought on early 90s

ehh, this is simply your theory, i think alot of dutasterides inability to get approved is due to the blocking of 5ar1. I mean when propecia and finasteride had come out, that was their selling point, "this drug only blocks 5ar2, which doesnt play a role in the brain and etc, where 5ar1 is found very much so in the brain and other vital organs"

I also think the reason they didnt make it to phase 3 with dutasteride is to its minor differences between finasteride and dutasteride and also for the safety issues that come with taking dutasteride. I know 3 people personally who take FINASTERIDE alone for years and on the outside looking in, they look completely fine, the longest being my first doctor who prescribed it to me,he was on for about 15 years when i first got my prescription.

 

[dunno]

I stopped finasteride last year and now I still sides sleep problems, frquent pee and erections problems but im improving so I don't boring to much

But I'm using Minoxidil and works better then finasteride for me

I actually had sleep problems prior to finasteride, never after.

Not gonna claim that finasteride is the cause of this, although i probably could.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

ehh, this is simply your theory, i think alot of dutasterides inability to get approved is due to the blocking of 5ar1. I mean when propecia and finasteride had come out, that was their selling point, "this drug only blocks 5ar2, which doesnt play a role in the brain and etc, where 5ar1 is found very much so in the brain and other vital organs"

I also think the reason they didnt make it to phase 3 with dutasteride is to its minor differences between finasteride and dutasteride and also for the safety issues that come with taking dutasteride. I know 3 people personally who take FINASTERIDE alone for years and on the outside looking in, they look completely fine, the longest being my first doctor who prescribed it to me,he was on for about 15 years when i first got my prescription.

Lol
Facts no theories .
Dutasteride resulta phase 2 are public , you can seach on google , 2002 :
compare to finasteride, results were much, much better.
Side effects reported were similar than finasteride
The never submit it to FDA cause they never did phase 3 so your theory is incoherence .

 

[Armando Jose]

I think alt.baldspot used to be a big newsgroup back then

Certainly it was very useful

 

[dralex]

No, the only thing why Dutasteride is not approve is cause Glaxo was smart enough to understand the risk on suppressing a NORMAL hormone on the whole body. Which merck don't . Glaxo never did the phase 3 in USA . Also, in 2000s there was more knowledge about what 5 alpha reductase and DHT do on the body.
The problem is not in the DHT or the levels, the facts is that you are blocking and hormone without even checking the hormone levels !!!! where is the coherence with it ? The problems are our damn follicles, DHT is not the " evil hormone" as it was thought on early 90s

You're pretty stupid for a "pharmacist". Making really really stupid assumptions. Dutasteride was not approved because it never went through phase III trials for hair loss. Why? No one knows exactly, but most likely because the costs by far outweighed the benefits. Phase III trials are expensive as sh*t and time consuming. Propecia wasn't even as profitable as expected, and the lawsuits are an extra burden. Propecia is shown to be very effective for hair loss as it is, so most doctors will continue to prescribe this as the side effects are lower. Also many people are already using dutasteride off-label, so they would lose out on any people that go the off-label route. Doesn't make sense to spend all this money to get a drug approved that is going to have underwhelming profits. GSK most likely realized that avodart for hair loss wouldn't be profitable in the USA so they didn't continue to pursue it. They don't care if there are some risks to their users as long as they still make a sizable profit. If you really think a multi-billion dollar pharma company cares about you (unless you're a shareholder), you're an idiot.

How do you not understand how pharma companies operate if you're a pharmacist?

"Glaxo was smart enough to understand the risk on suppressing a NORMAL hormone on the whole body"
Dutasteride was recently approved in Japan for hair loss. Guess who launched it? Glaxo.....you saying that Glaxo cares more about American's safety than Japanese? LOL...Its all about profits my friend.

 

[Armando Jose]

Did you post, as argentinian, in perperdelo.com or ganarpelo.com?

No, in 1996 I used Minoxidil 2 % two times per day for 6 or 8 month. It really worked, but I was 18th, so dumb, no internet , etc. So I thought that if did not bring me to a norwood 0 did not work.
Finasteride, first time I tried it Was in 1997, after I read it on a news paper, and was proscar 5mg pills. For 3 month, then I stooped cause fall into scams like aminexil and ETG treatment..

I will split things that I used, That are proven to work with many studies, but, since I don't use it alone, I do not know how good they are. On the other side, there are things that I tried, and there is not chance it will not give side effects and I strongly not recommend it.

Treatment topicals that I tried that have tons of papers behind, are safe and I recommend :

Ketoconazole as cream, lotion and shampoo. I recommend the first two ( check the Japanese paper )
17-Alpha estradiol ( aka : alfaestradiol )
Spironolactone
Tretinoin
Latanoprost ( but at very low dose, the Xalatan dose )

Oral :
Isotretinoin ( low dose , 10 mg per day. Keep in mind we now know it inhibit DHT and more androgens like androstendione ) , In my case, I give it a try in 1995 ( 3 months ) and it worked great for my hair, but that time, I was already receding. And no, Broscience stay away. Accutane do not cause hair loss as androgenetic alopecia, only at really high dose cause telogen effluvium. Ironically, this fucked my liver enzymes lot less than Dutasteride.

Topical that I used but I DO NOT RECOMMEND cause it goes systemic :
Flutamide

Oral drugs I used I extremly DO NOT RECOMMEND cause side effects and cause are not better then they topical versions
Minoxidil
Spironolactone

Topicals that I used but don't have enought papers behind them and I can't say if it works :
Tacrolimus
Azelaic acid ( For what I know, this don't have papers, only the 1998 one, that is in vitro with Zinc and Vit B 6 )

So far, I don't remember any other thing I have tried.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

You're pretty stupid for a "pharmacist". Making really really stupid assumptions. Dutasteride was not approved because it never went through phase III trials for hair loss. Why? No one knows exactly, but most likely because the costs by far outweighed the benefits. Phase III trials are expensive as sh*t and time consuming. Propecia wasn't even as profitable as expected, and the lawsuits are an extra burden. Propecia is shown to be very effective for hair loss as it is, so most doctors will continue to prescribe this as the side effects are lower. Also many people are already using dutasteride off-label, so they would lose out on any people that go the off-label route. Doesn't make sense to spend all this money to get a drug approved that is going to have underwhelming profits. GSK most likely realized that avodart for hair loss wouldn't be profitable in the USA so they didn't continue to pursue it. They don't care if there are some risks to their users as long as they still make a sizable profit. If you really think a multi-billion dollar pharma company cares about you (unless you're a shareholder), you're an idiot.

How do you not understand how pharma companies operate if you're a pharmacist?

"Glaxo was smart enough to understand the risk on suppressing a NORMAL hormone on the whole body"
Dutasteride was recently approved in Japan for hair loss. Guess who launched it? Glaxo.....you saying that Glaxo cares more about American's safety than Japanese? LOL...Its all about profits my friend.

lol hahahahahaha. Broscience lover u are !

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Did you post, as argentinian, in perperdelo.com or ganarpelo.com?

used to, several years ago . I think that one of them is from Spain and other from Argentina.

 

[dralex]

lol hahahahahaha. Broscience lover u are !

Ye broscience....called business.

Not claiming AR inhibitors are safe...but the safety had nothing to do with dutasteride not being approved.

 

[Armando Jose]

The problems are our damn follicles, DHT is not the " evil hormone" as it was thought on early 90s

Which is your idea?

Did you post, as argentinian, in perperdelo.com or ganarpelo.com?

 

[michel sapin]

dutasteride is far more effective in trial at the dose of 2.5 mg .
but not that much with 0.5 mg

 

[michel sapin]

@dralex ; you think this is more a matter of profit?
not about the safety profile?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Ye broscience....called business.

Not claiming AR inhibitors are safe...but the safety had nothing to do with dutasteride not being approved.

Read some papers dude , pubmed.gov. learn what is the FDA approve. anew api , you are two wrong .

 

[dralex]

@dralex ; you think this is more a matter of profit?
not about the safety profile?

I think the reason it wasn't approved in the USA was purely profits. It makes complete since why they wouldn't continue to pursue approval here. No way they're making a decent profit on it. Too many people already having good success on finasteride. Why would they switch over to dutasteride if finasteride is already working, and the side effects are more likely on duta? Also when propecia was approved for hair loss there was no generic available. There is generic dutasteride already available for BPH, and most US doctors are willing to prescribe off-label if it is already approved for hair loss as well, so GSK would make absolute sh*t off this in the USA.

 

[michel sapin]

that make sense.
what do you think of duta safety profile?

 

[dralex]

that make sense.
what do you think of duta safety profile?

Based off phase III results for Japan, it is more risky than finasteride. Higher incidence of sexual side effects. Also, personally don't like the long half-life, especially given the higher incidence of side effects, because if you do get side effects and quit it will stay in your system for a while.