21 Years Of Finasteride/ Dutasteride ( Since 1998, Duta Since 2002).

[jamesbooker1975]

Do you really think that topical spironolactone and 17 alpha estradiol would stop pattern baldness without them being systemically absorbed? Then why domany users here find topical spironolactone useless? I don't know much about 17 alpha estradiol other than the female pattern hair loss study so i would appreciate if you share the studies.

Do you really believe that you could have kept your hair all these years without oral 5 alpha reductase inhibitors? I think if it weren't for dutasteride, you would be bald by now.

I think that not, we will see.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Alpha estradiol :
[Local therapy of androgenetic alopecia with 17 alpha-estradiol. A controlled, randomized double-blind study (author's transl)].

For topical spironolactone here you have all the papers I know mentioned :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term="+topical+spironolactone+"

Again, it is really important to understand what a person want to archieve from a treatment.
Did the user go from, lets say a norwood 2 to a norwood 4 using the medicine ? or the user count the amount hair their lost or they try to regrowth on bald zones ? Only the first one is valid to evaluate a male pattern baldness treatment.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

And this one is extremly interesting :
"Topical spironolactone inhibits dihydrotestosterone receptors in human sebaceous glands: an autoradiographic study in subjects with acne vulgaris." :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2972662

 

[Comb_over]

Where can i get topical spironolactone?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Where can i get topical spironolactone?

Where do you live ?

 

[Johnmpb]

Where do you live ?

Where do u get your topical spironolactone from? I used to get the cream and liquid from dr. Lee. I don't trust the other sources I've used

 

[Comb_over]

Where do you live ?

I live in Brazil

 

[infinitepain]

I am sorry this happened to you. If you were getting such severe side effects that included depression, anxiety, and panic attacks in addition to sexual problems then why did you continue to take the medicine? Were you that desperate to save your hair? I am sorry that you had this experience but not everybody does and some people take dutasteride for male pattern baldness and are fine or even take it for BPH and are fine. I am not trying to minimize the trauma of your experience but I have studied pharmacology (I'm pre med) there are many medicines other than just finasteride and dutasteride that can cause serious sexual dysfunctions and even neurohormone damage. The truth is that finasteride and dutasteride are well tolerated compared to the vast majority of other medications, many of which have the chance of causing seizures and death. I am sorry you were one of the ones who had a side effect. I, personally, was on SSRIs before I ever started finasteride and those have a MUCH greater chance of causing sexual problems and mental problems than finasteride. I was fine on them and I have to be on them for life so I figured I might as well give finasteride a try. No side effects from it either. Again I am sorry that this happened to you.

Can you explain how there aren't going to be side effects if you remove 70% of your DHT? (95 with dutasteride)

 

[dr75]

Can you explain how there aren't going to be side effects if you remove 70% of your DHT? (95 with dutasteride)

I think it is highly variable. Some men can live with the remaining %30 DHT without problems, some can't. Some men won't have problems producing sperm with lowered DHT whereas some will be affected to a greater degree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7775644

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I think it is highly variable. Some men can live with the remaining %30 DHT without problems, some can't. Some men won't have problems producing sperm with lowered DHT whereas some will be affected to a greater degree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7775644

Well, the thing is what quality of live you will have. Yes, you can live with 70 % lower testosterone. But, Are you going to be a happy alpha male ? or a depressive guy ?
Also 5-alphareductase works in many reaciones not only on the T to DHT .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Where do u get your topical spironolactone from? I used to get the cream and liquid from dr. Lee. I don't trust the other sources I've used

I coumpound it myself, is really easy .If you live in USA or UK there are some services in some states ( online ) where you can get an prescription for the compound and send it to a local pharmacy.

Other way is simple buy it on Hairlosstalk , buy have no Idea, It is compound it outside USA and they send it with no indication that there are this drugs inside to can pass the customs safely .

Third option will be to get the powder online, like some people do with "RU" and compound it yourself, should be really cheap I can explain you how to compound it, easier with a cream but I know how to do it even in a lotion 5 % . But have no idea on the source.

4th option is to get the aldactone tablets crush it and compound a cream. I do not recomend it cause the fillers a pill have.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I live in Brazil

First check it for a vademecum online, may be in Brazil there is a a lab that sell it as topical medicine for acne. In argentina, many years ago, there was a laboratory that sell it as a gel for acne.

Second will be to compound it on a local pharmacy, you might will need a prescriotion for the first time, should be easy to get it in Brazil have tons of less restrictions than in USA

Third, if customs are not an a**h** like in Argentina, you can buy it online

 

[The Baldy Man]

James, so you would recommend the S5 cream? I am thinking of adding it in addition to finasteride.

 

[donyell]

Just scimmed the thread but if you had some sides from the beginning that is always a bad sign. Some people simply handle oral drugs better than others, some people have an out of wack HPTA to begin with or the drugs throw it off. Some can handle the E boost fine etc... I know many long time users and the ones who have had problems in the long term have generally battled some minor sides since the beginning aswell while the ones who are still fine never had side effects to begin with.

Are you on T therapy now?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

James, so you would recommend the S5 cream? I am thinking of adding it in addition to finasteride.

I really don't know . May be you can make a "group buy" and send one to test it on a lab . I read on hair loss forums some guys in USA that did that with Ru and CB

 

[The Baldy Man]

Why would I need it tested? Is the authenticity of Hair Loss Talk's S5 cream in doubt? And where would I get it tested anyway?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Why would I need it tested? Is the authenticity of Hair Loss Talk's S5 cream in doubt? And where would I get it tested anyway?

No, since you asked I think that you have a doubt and I tell you how to "clean" that doubt .
No idea, but sure there dozens of labs that tested in USA.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Just scimmed the thread but if you had some sides from the beginning that is always a bad sign. Some people simply handle oral drugs better than others, some people have an out of wack HPTA to begin with or the drugs throw it off. Some can handle the E boost fine etc... I know many long time users and the ones who have had problems in the long term have generally battled some minor sides since the beginning aswell while the ones who are still fine never had side effects to begin with.

Are you on T therapy now?

Please read the post, all that was already asked and answered.

 

[dr75]

Well, the thing is what quality of live you will have. Yes, you can live with 70 % lower testosterone. But, Are you going to be a happy alpha male ? or a depressive guy ?
Also 5-alphareductase works in many reaciones not only on the T to DHT .

Finasteride-induced depression is a rare event possibly occuring in predisposed individuals. Not every finasteride user is some depressed guy. %70 lower dihydrotestosterone is not the same thing as %70 lower testosterone. 5 alpha reductase type 2 is mainly localized on the genital skin, hair follicles and liver. Its inhibition do not promote inflammation in the liver whereas 5AR1 inhibition is associated with metabolic disturbances. We now know that finasteride do not cause sleep problems, dementia and metabolic alteration. We cannot say the same for dutasteride because it inhibits 5AR1 and it seems like it is more of an important enzyme than 5AR2. I believe your problems are mostly related to your long term use of dutasteride and you wouldn't have suffered the same side effects had you used finasteride instead of dutasteride. My own opinion is finasteride is safe in the long run while dutasteride is not and more studies needed.

 

[g.i joey]

Finasteride-induced depression is a rare event possibly occuring in predisposed individuals. Not every finasteride user is some depressed guy. %70 lower dihydrotestosterone is not the same thing as %70 lower testosterone. 5 alpha reductase type 2 is mainly localized on the genital skin, hair follicles and liver. Its inhibition do not promote inflammation in the liver whereas 5AR1 inhibition is associated with metabolic disturbances. We now know that finasteride do not cause sleep problems, dementia and metabolic alteration. We cannot say the same for dutasteride because it inhibits 5AR1 and it seems like it is more of an important enzyme than 5AR2. I believe your problems are mostly related to your long term use of dutasteride and you wouldn't have suffered the same side effects had you used finasteride instead of dutasteride. My own opinion is finasteride is safe in the long run while dutasteride is not and more studies needed.

It's a fact at this point, I mean there are small but vital differences between finasteride and dutasteride, and the differences are basically why one is fda approved and why one isn't, it's really that simple.