Yet another diet thread (& advice for slowing down hairloss)

inmyhead

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Probably because you are missing the point, those people don't have the male pattern baldness gene active. For people who have it and have it active, the level of inflation in the scalp is going to affect the rate of loss. If your follicles are not susceptible to androgens in the first place, then there is no inflammatory process to control.

It's a pretty simple concept. I openly have more itch/shed the days after I've ordered take out or drank a few beers.
Have you heard that we shed hairs, which stopped growing months/weeks ago? So yours "next day after drinking I shed few more hairs" is incorrect.
 

trialAcc

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Have you heard that we shed hairs, which stopped growing months/weeks ago? So yours "next day after drinking I shed few more hairs" is incorrect.
Oh cool, pick the one anecdotal part of the comment to try and discredit the rest of the post. Doesn't change the fact that lifestyle factors are clearly playing a larger role then ever before in hairloss globally. More men are losing hair earlier/quicker then ever before, specifically in places where hairloss used to be a more rare/older occurrence.
 

inmyhead

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Oh cool, pick the one anecdotal part of the comment to try and discredit the rest of the post. Doesn't change the fact that lifestyle factors are clearly playing a larger role then ever before in hairloss globally. More men are losing hair earlier/quicker then ever before, specifically in places where hairloss used to be a more rare/older occurrence.
"More men are losing hair earlier/quicker then ever before" based on what?
 

trialAcc

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"More men are losing hair earlier/quicker then ever before" based on what?
A quick google search will provide you with literally dozens of articles about how men are losing hair earlier then prior generations, specifically in asian cultures where prior generations lacked exposure to western diets (among other things). Western diets are highly inflammatory. Hairloss is triggered/caused by inflammation. 1+1=2



 

Vinc2097

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I'm based in western Europe and lived, mostly, in western countries so far.

You are spot on about both the fish and the veggies. Didn't want to make my initial post even longer. Regarding veggies, one should eat only organic. Fish should be eaten at about 250g per week.

nice post ! i have a very oily and very itchy scalp myself.. i stopped drinking alcool this years ! stopped dairy beside 1 milk in my coffee, and i will try to stop red meat and junk foods. (i doubt this will help with hair loss at all, but if it can help with oil and itchness than that would be awesome)

i have couple of questions if i may :
- coffee : i put i milk in my coffe so maybe 20ml.. i know coffee can be bad but thannn my coffee when waking up is a blessing.. im going bald anyway so why stopping.

- meat : i cant stop red meat, but i will still keep some chicken.

- vitamin D3 : i live in canada (north part with long winters) and work inside in a office all day. so for sure i would need vitamin d supplement. what is your dosage and i just read you need to take vitamin K2 (mk-7) with it.. do you ?

thanks !
 

trialAcc

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I agree. My brother has type 2 diabetes. Though he is on meds (I order rybelsus online for him) and has more chances to experience hair loss, his hair looks great (maybe his diet helps him, I don't know). And I don't have any serious diseases, but have to fight with hair loss. of course, it is essential to eat healthy food, but I'm not sure, it is enough to prevent balding.
You have the balding gene, your brother doesn't. Poof, mystery solved.
 

tonyj

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Ribeyes, hamburger meat, chicken and fish occasionally. I usually have fruit and or vegetables 2 times or less a week. I avoid grains, lentils, rice, breads. Basically, I'm following the carnivore diet, most of the time. Also, I avoid most oils except olive oil and avocado oil.
 

Isneezedsohard

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I find that I think avoiding carbs in general helps my body. Not entirely-- but limiting carbs in general. No pasta, white bread, etc.
 

KNemo

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You have the balding gene, your brother doesn't. Poof, mystery solved.
They're trying to push some sellers by posting a blurb with a link - mystery actually solved. Srs look at his posting history.
 

inmyhead

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Anyways, you guys should look into what's abnormal in balding scalp (DKK-1, BDNF, PGD2, low PGE2, etc..) and try to look into foods which might reduce those (Vitamin C, Taurine, castor oil, etc..) Just eating something because it's considered healthy certainly won't work for male pattern baldness.
 

Flamingflaps

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Ribeyes, hamburger meat, chicken and fish occasionally. I usually have fruit and or vegetables 2 times or less a week. I avoid grains, lentils, rice, breads. Basically, I'm following the carnivore diet, most of the time. Also, I avoid most oils except olive oil and avocado oil.
This kind of diet just boggles my mind.
 

trialAcc

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Anyways, you guys should look into what's abnormal in balding scalp (DKK-1, BDNF, PGD2, low PGE2, etc..) and try to look into foods which might reduce those (Vitamin C, Taurine, castor oil, etc..) Just eating something because it's considered healthy certainly won't work for male pattern baldness.
I mean it does on some level. If you can reduce overall inflammation if your body I almost guarantee you will lose hair slower. Obviously not a cure or anything close to it, but it's something.
 

benjt2

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Whoever thinks that diet only plays a small role in Androgenetic Alopecia onset and progression speed, should get the full text of the following paper:
Mediterranean diet: fresh herbs and fresh vegetables decrease the risk of Androgenetic Alopecia in males

Additionally, Inuit - who are known not to have androgenetic alopecia - have a genetic mutation which allows their bodies to digest high amounts of animal fat without the negative side effects experienced by non-Inuit. Additionally, their diet is very low in sugar. In other words: They don't have hyperglycemia because of diet and no damage from animal fats (saturated fats, trans fats, LDL) because of a genetic mutation.

Last case in point: Hyperglycemia leads to gum inflammation. If dietary sugar can lead to gum inflammation, it is not unlikely that it can also lead to inflammation around follicles. I assume that hyperglycemia from our modern diet just leads to chronic systemic inflammation - which manifests both in the gum and in the scalp.

My hypothesis: Androgenetic alopecia is a downstream effect of diets that have two things over longer periods of time: 1) High blood sugar and 2) high blood cholesterol/lipid levels.
That also explains why metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and diabetes are strongly correlated with Androgenetic Alopecia. They don't happen for some weird unknown side effect. The causes of these three (MetS, CVD/atherosclerosis, diabetes) are, I think, literally the same causes as those of Androgenetic Alopecia. Thus, the genetic causal chain is not:
You have the Androgenetic Alopecia genes -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia
Rather, the genetic causal chain is something like this:
You have a set of genes which make your body more inflamed when facing high dietary sugar and high levels of certain kinds of fat -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia (as an inflammatory response to these dietary components that your genes don't deal well with)

Some other interesting facts:
- Hair needs IGF-1 to grow. Insulin resistance (due to high dietary sugar) weakens the effectiveness of IGF-1 and reduces IGF-1 production.
- We know that scalps of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers are calcified. High blood cholesterol/lipid levels lead to calcification, which is a downstream effect of blood supply plaques (that are caused by LDL, OxLDL, VLDL).

Now, as I know most of you don't give a flying f*ck about explanations and will just repeat "it's not the diet" like a mantra and without thinking: In the middle of January I started a very aggressive anti-atherosclerosis, anti-CVD and anti-diabetes diet. Funnily enough, since then, I saw some new vellus hair pop up along my hairline. I got no idea if this is because of these aggressive dietary changes or because of the high doses of vit D and K I take since Jan 1, 2021. It's not cosmetically significant yet, but if it ever will be I'll post photos.
 

inmyhead

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Whoever thinks that diet only plays a small role in Androgenetic Alopecia onset and progression speed, should get the full text of the following paper:
Mediterranean diet: fresh herbs and fresh vegetables decrease the risk of Androgenetic Alopecia in males

Additionally, Inuit - who are known not to have androgenetic alopecia - have a genetic mutation which allows their bodies to digest high amounts of animal fat without the negative side effects experienced by non-Inuit. Additionally, their diet is very low in sugar. In other words: They don't have hyperglycemia because of diet and no damage from animal fats (saturated fats, trans fats, LDL) because of a genetic mutation.

Last case in point: Hyperglycemia leads to gum inflammation. If dietary sugar can lead to gum inflammation, it is not unlikely that it can also lead to inflammation around follicles. I assume that hyperglycemia from our modern diet just leads to chronic systemic inflammation - which manifests both in the gum and in the scalp.

My hypothesis: Androgenetic alopecia is a downstream effect of diets that have two things over longer periods of time: 1) High blood sugar and 2) high blood cholesterol/lipid levels.
That also explains why metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and diabetes are strongly correlated with Androgenetic Alopecia. They don't happen for some weird unknown side effect. The causes of these three (MetS, CVD/atherosclerosis, diabetes) are, I think, literally the same causes as those of Androgenetic Alopecia. Thus, the genetic causal chain is not:
You have the Androgenetic Alopecia genes -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia
Rather, the genetic causal chain is something like this:
You have a set of genes which make your body more inflamed when facing high dietary sugar and high levels of certain kinds of fat -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia (as an inflammatory response to these dietary components that your genes don't deal well with)

Some other interesting facts:
- Hair needs IGF-1 to grow. Insulin resistance (due to high dietary sugar) weakens the effectiveness of IGF-1 and reduces IGF-1 production.
- We know that scalps of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers are calcified. High blood cholesterol/lipid levels lead to calcification, which is a downstream effect of blood supply plaques (that are caused by LDL, OxLDL, VLDL).

Now, as I know most of you don't give a flying f*ck about explanations and will just repeat "it's not the diet" like a mantra and without thinking: In the middle of January I started a very aggressive anti-atherosclerosis, anti-CVD and anti-diabetes diet. Funnily enough, since then, I saw some new vellus hair pop up along my hairline. I got no idea if this is because of these aggressive dietary changes or because of the high doses of vit D and K I take since Jan 1, 2021. It's not cosmetically significant yet, but if it ever will be I'll post photos.
Of course male pattern baldness is caused by bad diet.. Just add more finasteride/dutasteride/female hormones in your diet and you'll be fine!
 

Nextjohns

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Whoever thinks that diet only plays a small role in Androgenetic Alopecia onset and progression speed, should get the full text of the following paper:
Mediterranean diet: fresh herbs and fresh vegetables decrease the risk of Androgenetic Alopecia in males

Additionally, Inuit - who are known not to have androgenetic alopecia - have a genetic mutation which allows their bodies to digest high amounts of animal fat without the negative side effects experienced by non-Inuit. Additionally, their diet is very low in sugar. In other words: They don't have hyperglycemia because of diet and no damage from animal fats (saturated fats, trans fats, LDL) because of a genetic mutation.

Last case in point: Hyperglycemia leads to gum inflammation. If dietary sugar can lead to gum inflammation, it is not unlikely that it can also lead to inflammation around follicles. I assume that hyperglycemia from our modern diet just leads to chronic systemic inflammation - which manifests both in the gum and in the scalp.

My hypothesis: Androgenetic alopecia is a downstream effect of diets that have two things over longer periods of time: 1) High blood sugar and 2) high blood cholesterol/lipid levels.
That also explains why metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and diabetes are strongly correlated with Androgenetic Alopecia. They don't happen for some weird unknown side effect. The causes of these three (MetS, CVD/atherosclerosis, diabetes) are, I think, literally the same causes as those of Androgenetic Alopecia. Thus, the genetic causal chain is not:
You have the Androgenetic Alopecia genes -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia
Rather, the genetic causal chain is something like this:
You have a set of genes which make your body more inflamed when facing high dietary sugar and high levels of certain kinds of fat -> you get Androgenetic Alopecia (as an inflammatory response to these dietary components that your genes don't deal well with)

Some other interesting facts:
- Hair needs IGF-1 to grow. Insulin resistance (due to high dietary sugar) weakens the effectiveness of IGF-1 and reduces IGF-1 production.
- We know that scalps of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers are calcified. High blood cholesterol/lipid levels lead to calcification, which is a downstream effect of blood supply plaques (that are caused by LDL, OxLDL, VLDL).

Now, as I know most of you don't give a flying f*ck about explanations and will just repeat "it's not the diet" like a mantra and without thinking: In the middle of January I started a very aggressive anti-atherosclerosis, anti-CVD and anti-diabetes diet. Funnily enough, since then, I saw some new vellus hair pop up along my hairline. I got no idea if this is because of these aggressive dietary changes or because of the high doses of vit D and K I take since Jan 1, 2021. It's not cosmetically significant yet, but if it ever will be I'll post photos.

Can you expand on why you think meat (from land animals) is bad? Does this include eggs too?

Also you're right on the asian epidemic. Ever since WW2 & the adoption of the Western diet, the Japanese have steadily increased their rates of AA. In terms of the traditional asian diet though, rice was a big part. Did they eat brown rice only? Because I thought rice increased blood sugar a fair bit also (albeit still lower than European wheat.)

You're not the only one who has come to this conclusion. I think Chemhead has, but also a fella known as Taeian from the bb forums years ago. Taeian however did not have a problem with meat from memory. I think he referenced the native indians and their high-fat/low carb diet.
 
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benjt2

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I knew about Chemhead (and obviously agree with him) but not about Taeian.

Regarding animal fats, there are many studies such as this one. I won't flood you with other studies now (unless you are interested), but the gist of the matter is that I think subclinical/pre-CVD atheriosclerosis plays a role in Androgenetic Alopecia progression. I am not sure yet whether hyperglycemia (high sugar, high carb, high starch in diet) or certain kinds of fats (saturated, trans) play the bigger role in Androgenetic Alopecia progression but both probably do. Animal meat tends to increase LDL and, because it is often fried, oxidized fats and other harmful byproducts are also elevated. There was indeed a study that showed that Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers have cholesterol problems.
Decreasing LDL (plus products like OxLDL) and especially reducing atherosclerosis progression will slow down Androgenetic Alopecia progression. There are some foods that can very slowly even reduce atherosclerosis plaques already present in your body. I am wondering if, over a long period of time, it would be possible to reverse Androgenetic Alopecia if one keeps blood sugar levels consistently low and reverses atherosclerosis plaques simultaneously.

Eggs are fine in moderation. 4 to 6 a week are completely okay.

I recommend reading the chapter "Androgenetic Alopecia" in this paper: The Role of Diet as an Adjuvant Treatment in Scarring and Nonscarring Alopecia.
 

Photon

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I think a more manageable approach will be to do fasting. Fasting reduces inflammation pretty quickly. Maybe the fast where you eat one day normally (including red meats, dairy, etc.) And one day only water would benefit us the most.
 

pegasus2

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Anyways, you guys should look into what's abnormal in balding scalp (DKK-1, BDNF, PGD2, low PGE2, etc..) and try to look into foods which might reduce those (Vitamin C, Taurine, castor oil, etc..) Just eating something because it's considered healthy certainly won't work for male pattern baldness.
DKK1 and PGD2 are upregulated specifically by AR expression. The only diet that will prevent hair loss is one that lowers your testosterone, and increases your estrogen.
 

Nextjohns

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Check this out - https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ir-on-japanese-style-diet-than-peating.33849/

Also no one has ever concluded which comes first. DHT or inflammation? The general consensus is that DHT spikes, hits the receptor in the follicle, and creates inflammation. However, it's very likely the other way around. Eating a diet consisted of simple carbohydrates spikes insulin, creates inflammation and in order to mend this the body sends out DHT throughout the body, namely the skin & hair follicles.

We all know that high sugar negatively affects the skin and accelerates the apoptosis of the cells. Why would it not for the hair?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Inflammation of the body causes teeth decay, diabetes, arthritis, I dare say even cancer. To think that hair would be immune are fooling themselves.

The Japanese are known not just for their great hair, but their long life expectancy and overall positive health. Coincidence enough?
 
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