Yet again strange DHT results

[RoyD]

Brief story: I was on Dutasteride (Dr. Reddy's Dutas) for a year without any results or sides so I decided to take a DHT test to check my levels. Surprisingly my DHT was at 499 pg/mL with 200-990 being the reference interval. I thought my Dutas was fake so I decided to stop and start on Finasteride (Cipla) and began with 1mg eventually increasing dosage to 5mg over a period of two months.

Last week I did another test to see if anything had changed because my hair was beginning to shed really fast now. Unfortunately the situation has only gotten worse as my DHT is now at 596 which means it has considerably increased despite being on Finasteride.

I know DHT tests aren't absolutely accurate but this is far from what it should be in my case. Btw I've been getting my meds from this one local pharmacy because it is the only one in my area that stocks Dutasteride.

Are my meds fake or is there a rare possibility that my body doesn't respond to anti androgens?

 

[kir]

You should buy Avodart from you local pharmacy and then get the blood work done after two weeks. "After 1 and 2 weeks of daily dosing with dutasteride 0.5 mg, median serum DHT concentrations were reduced by 85% and 90%, respectively." Link - http://www.drugs.com/pro/avodart.html

So after taking 14 softgel caps from your local pharmacy, you can do another test. This should confirm the legitimacy of your meds.
Good Luck!

 

[Vlatch]

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, your normal DHT levels were sky high ? It coincides with your two tests =\

 

[RoyD]

You should buy Avodart from you local pharmacy and then get the blood work done after two weeks. "After 1 and 2 weeks of daily dosing with dutasteride 0.5 mg, median serum DHT concentrations were reduced by 85% and 90%, respectively." Link - http://www.drugs.com/pro/avodart.html

So after taking 14 softgel caps from your local pharmacy, you can do another test.

Good Luck!

That doesn't make sense because the strength of Dutasteride doesn't wear off that significantly in just a year. 2 weeks or 1 year, the result shouldn't vary much.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Hmm. I think it could be:

1) Maybe the test is inaccurate again. Or the way they check DHT.
2) Fake meds.
3) Ectopic steroid production. A syndrome where other tissues produce hormone directly outside of normal mechanisms, very rare and you would have other symptoms. Also very serious issue which would require scans/blood tests/enzyme checks.
4) High DHT to begin with/Non responder

I think it is likely to be number 4. Remember your PSA was low so that tells me the meds are not fake.

 

[RoyD]

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, your normal DHT levels were sky high ? It coincides with your two tests =\

Well I did the math too. Now taking official research figures 5mg finasteride and 0.5mg dutasteride suppress 70% and 93% DHT respectively. While on finasteride my DHT level was at 596 which should be 30% of what it originally was. Doing the math my body's 100% DHT level would then be 1986 pg/mL.

Now if that sounds a little unbelievable then let's calculate dutasteride numbers. On dutasteride my DHT level was at 499 which should be 7% of my original DHT. Hence according to this my 100% DHT level should be ... wait for it .... 7128 pg/mL

Hence the topic 'Yet again strange DHT results'.

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Hmm. I think it could be:

1) Maybe the test is inaccurate again. Or the way they check DHT.
2) Fake meds.
3) Ectopic steroid production. A syndrome where other tissues produce hormone directly outside of normal mechanisms, very rare and you would have other symptoms. Also very serious issue which would require scans/blood tests/enzyme checks.
4) High DHT to begin with/Non responder

I think it is likely to be number 4. Remember your PSA was low so that tells me the meds are not fake.

1 is highly unlikely because this is the second time I've taken the test and there isn't much variance. Ideally the DHT levels should be around 100 on dutasteride not somewhere between 500-600. There is nothing to suspect that the test is inaccurate.
2 is the best possibility
Idk what 3 is so I can't comment. I just have a lot of body hair and began growing a full beard by the time I was 13/14.
High DHT levels seem likely but not after I did the math. Non responder is probably the next best possibility after fake meds.

I think I need to find a good pharmacy to get my dutasteride from. Once that happens and I start taking the dutasteride I can confirm once and for all whether it's 2 or 4 that is my problem.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Didn't your balls hurt when you got on the medication? I really doubt both your dutasteride AND finasteride have been fake. They are too cheap and easy to make, more hassle and risk to fake them. From a local pharmacy too.

 

[Andrew21]

That's really strange. A similar thing happened to my friend.

 

[kir]

In addition to what the others said, another possibility could be drug interactions causing the drug to lose effectiveness . See a full list here - http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/dutasteride.html

Another could be the generics do not contain the actual dosage they advertise.

Another possibility could be the approved dosage for the drug doesn't work for you. you may need to increase the dosage (Always talk to your doctor first)

It could also be the meds are being kept in a non-suitable environment causing it to lose effectiveness. see - http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/patientinstructions/000534.htm

It's hardly likely you're a non responder, do you have a baseline?

 

[zzzzz]

very

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very strange

 

[xRedStaRx]

Fake meds or bogus test results.

If your semen hasn't changed at all in volume, texture or colour, then 1, else 2. Absolutely no other option.

 

[Vlatch]

Well I did the math too. Now taking official research figures 5mg finasteride and 0.5mg dutasteride suppress 70% and 93% DHT respectively. While on finasteride my DHT level was at 596 which should be 30% of what it originally was. Doing the math my body's 100% DHT level would then be 1986 pg/mL.

Now if that sounds a little unbelievable then let's calculate dutasteride numbers. On dutasteride my DHT level was at 499 which should be 7% of my original DHT. Hence according to this my 100% DHT level should be ... wait for it .... 7128 pg/mL

If you take 0.5mg a day for several months, it takes at least 4 months after stopping for the concentration of dutasteride in your blood to become ineffective (terminal half life of 4 weeks, it builds up in the blood and takes a very long time to disappear). Look at the studies.

You've only been off it for 2 months, and assuming it wasn't fake, your test results coincide with this theory : maybe you are producing a lot of DHT, and maybe dutasteride didn't remove 93% of your DHT (it's an average number !), maybe it removed only 75%.

You have to wait at least 4 more months without taking any dutasteride to take another test, take finasteride during that period if you want, and stop one week before the test. You'll know what your normal DHT levels are.

 

[xRedStaRx]

If you take 0.5mg a day for several months, it takes at least 4 months after stopping for the concentration of dutasteride in your blood to become ineffective (terminal half life of 4 weeks, it builds up in the blood and takes a very long time to disappear). Look at the studies.

You've only been off it for 2 months, and assuming it wasn't fake, your test results coincide with this theory : maybe you are producing a lot of DHT, and maybe dutasteride didn't remove 93% of your DHT (it's an average number !), maybe it removed only 75%.

You have to wait at least 4 more months without taking any dutasteride to take another test, take finasteride during that period if you want, and stop one week before the test. You'll know what your normal DHT levels are.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Vlatch]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Thank you for your great explanation.
Dutasteride has a terminal half life of 4 weeks, so if you take 0.5mg a day for several months, you'll have 20-30mg of dutasteride in your organism. This will take 6 months to get back to a negligible dose when you stop taking the drug.

The guy doesn't know what his normal DHT levels are, so he can't compare his results with anything apart from average numbers which probably don't correspond to his case.

 

[xRedStaRx]

Thank you for your great explanation.
Dutasteride has a terminal half life of 4 weeks, so if you take 0.5mg a day for several months, you'll have 20-30mg of dutasteride in your organism. This will take 6 months to get back to a negligible dose when you stop taking the drug.

The guy doesn't know what his normal DHT levels are, so he can't compare his results with anything apart from average numbers which probably don't correspond to his case.

You'll have 20.5mg for every day dosing. It will take roughly a year for it to go below 0.01mg. That doesn't mean anything. Dutasteride removes almost all DHT regardless of baseline.

 

[RoyD]

In addition to what the others said, another possibility could be drug interactions causing the drug to lose effectiveness . See a full list here - http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/dutasteride.html

Another could be the generics do not contain the actual dosage they advertise.

Another possibility could be the approved dosage for the drug doesn't work for you. you may need to increase the dosage (Always talk to your doctor first)

It could also be the meds are being kept in a non-suitable environment causing it to lose effectiveness. see - http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/patientinstructions/000534.htm

It's hardly likely you're a non responder, do you have a baseline?

I don't think that is the case because I've never consistently taken anything else along with dutasteride. Besides that dutasteride capsules are pretty strong. I once tried to tear and smash the capsule but it wouldn't and it only got cut my a sharp pair of scissors.

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Fake meds or bogus test results.

If your semen hasn't changed at all in volume, texture or colour, then 1, else 2. Absolutely no other option.

My semen hasn't really changed I feel. Maybe a little watery but I can't say with assurity. My libido has been high as ever though. Like I said I haven't had any considerable sides.

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If you take 0.5mg a day for several months, it takes at least 4 months after stopping for the concentration of dutasteride in your blood to become ineffective (terminal half life of 4 weeks, it builds up in the blood and takes a very long time to disappear). Look at the studies.

You've only been off it for 2 months, and assuming it wasn't fake, your test results coincide with this theory : maybe you are producing a lot of DHT, and maybe dutasteride didn't remove 93% of your DHT (it's an average number !), maybe it removed only 75%.

You have to wait at least 4 more months without taking any dutasteride to take another test, take finasteride during that period if you want, and stop one week before the test. You'll know what your normal DHT levels are.

True I don't have a baseline result. I know the half life is 28 days that's why I waited 2 months because I thought the dutasteride effect must've worn off by then.

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Didn't your balls hurt when you got on the medication? I really doubt both your dutasteride AND finasteride have been fake. They are too cheap and easy to make, more hassle and risk to fake them. From a local pharmacy too.

Idk why you still like to defend Indian meds but anyways just for a fact, around 1 in 5 meds on the Indian market are fake and one of the guys who works with the regulators has even said that if he had to audit Indian pharmas according to the US FDA standards then he'd have to shut down most of them.

Anyways I had slight testicular pain when I shifted to finasteride but that was just 2 days. I feel the meds are not completely fake but they are far less potent than what they are advertised to be.

 

[kir]

Are you sure? because drugs.com is a very reliable source.

 

[JDW]

Did you get any updates on this RoyD?

 

[JDW]

Can't you just "imagine" your own answer to this question? I guess I can't help you, since you think I am imagining my own side effects with finasteride.

hi mate, was that directed at me? Don't think I've ever spoke with you about finasteride side effects??

 

[Pequod]

I wouldn't trust Dr. Reddy's anything when it comes to medications. Just look up the FDA and that company to see what I mean.