Why things take so long?

moarhairpls

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I don't think anybody hates losing hair more than I do, but there SHOULD be more people working on cancer than hairloss. Androgenetic Alopecia sucks, but it's not going to kill you. I find it silly and petty to talk about raising awareness for something that doesn't kill anyone.
 

Armando Jose

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I think the only viable way to raise awareness is through women's Androgenetic Alopecia. If I understand correctly, the mechanism is the same, - although they do not develop a pattern.. - so researchers can raise money to tackle that and men would benefit from it as well. Right? Or maybe raise awareness through women but research on men :)

+1
>Strange but viable
 

Swoop

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Things like these are straight forward. It's science for f*cks sake. Access to good models and rapid trial & error would be huge obviously. But that can only happen in a world without boundaries. That isn't realism though.

FredTheBelgian makes some excellent points about crowdfunding. It's a dream for male pattern baldness. Let's assume though that it succeeds and 5 million is gathered. So now you put that 5 million into a research group. You pick Dr. Lindner and his team. They start out with the whole process that takes time and get to the 1st or 2nd phase of a clinical trial. Oh sh*t, they find out that the hair microfollicle transplanted in vivo on actual humans doesn't induce a proper hair follicle at all! Jup, back to the drawing board from the start. Meanwhile money is spent and time doesn't stand still and years pass by.

I'm of opinion furthermore that the researchers do have created a wrong atmosphere to attract possible funding from investors. How many times did we hear the "5 year cure"? And remember this doesn't come out the media only. Actual scientists perpetuate these dreams into the public. I quote Dr. Cotsarelis who was interviewed by Desmond last year;

I brought up the crowdfunding idea particularly with regards to Follica and he said the amount necessary is quite large. So I insisted on an actual amount and here's what he said: "US $2 million would bring out a product that would be more effective than Minoxidil and Propecia but would not give a bald person a full head of hair. US $20 million will provide the kind of funding necessary to give someone who is already bald a full head of hair but it will take more years to accomplish".

A perfect, hilarious example. It's one thing to be excited about your research it's another thing to create false promises almost. How do you guys think investors go around this image anno 2015? Well they certainly won't get excited because of a in vitro microfollicle or some mice results. I believe the image is partly to blame for this. I can't almost think of a other condition that is characterized by so many lies, dreams and false promises throughout the years. Can you guys?

It's nonsense to believe that a actual cure won't get funded though. Remember we are talking about regenerative therapy here. It won't only help people with androgenetic alopecia but also people with alopecia areata, cicatrial alopecia, people who suffered from burns on their scalp etc. The market value is increasing too. This is evidenced also by the rapid growth of the hair transplant industry. There is enough money to be made.

Oh and again we need better models.. It's crucial. But that would be another discussion.

If someone has ideas on how to solve this problem, he should come forward.

I sometimes still make jokes about Dr. Nigam, that he was our short term "hope". Why? In a sense he created the world without boundaries with his frankenstein experiments. Unfortunately he just wasn't knowledgeable at all and lacked experience. He was more a clown than anything.

Dr. Jahoda apparently injected dermal sheath cells in his wife his forearm though. Recently I read that a women underwent gene therapy as a bold experiment; http://bioviva-science.com/. That is your possible idea on how to fix this quicker. You would need someone who is bold, passionate, knowledgeable and experienced who would do this kind of these things. Obviously this does possibly raise ethical & legal questions but then again it's probably the only thing that could possibly speed this up to some extent. May sound ridiculous but it's something I guess.

Anyway let's hope that something in the clinical trials running now will prove to be awesome because that is what we are looking at short term (~5 years ). Results first before I personally get excited though.
 

MickChong

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I don't think anybody hates losing hair more than I do, but there SHOULD be more people working on cancer than hairloss. Androgenetic Alopecia sucks, but it's not going to kill you. I find it silly and petty to talk about raising awareness for something that doesn't kill anyone.

Of course, but 1 doesn't have to be at the expense of the other. We need the best brains in the world to be developing cures for all diseases, instead they're working to develop nuclear bombs and other things that kill us and make us unhappy. The world is just a messed up place.
 

Derpicus

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I don't think anybody hates losing hair more than I do, but there SHOULD be more people working on cancer than hairloss. Androgenetic Alopecia sucks, but it's not going to kill you. I find it silly and petty to talk about raising awareness for something that doesn't kill anyone.

Cancer kills yeah that's great it also affects more people then hair loss. But just because it doesn't kill anyone doesn't mean it doesn't have other issues, men who suffer from hair loss generally suffer from mental illnesses.

I mean it's not uncommon for a young male who is suffering from hair loss to be depressed or suicidal. I'm not saying a cure for hair loss should take precedence over cancer but working on a cure for hair loss shouldn't be something that is shunned or not given any sort of priority. Curing hair loss in a society where we've been taught to value aesthetics so highly I think would be major.

Not just that but curing hair loss in men but there are women who would benefit from it, they may not experience hair loss as commonly as a man but they also suffer from it. Because when it comes down to it losing your hair is like losing your identity you become just another shadow.
 
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I can't almost think of a other condition that is characterized by so many lies, dreams and false promises throughout the years. Can you guys?

The used car industry has pushy salesman, the hair loss industry has a snake oils and false hopes... That's a fact that will probably not change for the next ?? years.
 

bobby dearfield

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Cancer does not affect more people than Hair Loss, not even close! I find it more possible that they discover a câncer cure through hair loss research than directly studying câncer directly, or the other way around. It wound not surprise me at all. That is why I think they should try to cure all sorts of diseases without thinking one is more important than others. We dont value aesthetics because we are taught to. This value is inate, you will value aesthetics anyway, it is your nature that tells you to do it.
 

moarhairpls

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Cancer does not affect more people than Hair Loss, not even close! I find it more possible that they discover a câncer cure through hair loss research than directly studying câncer directly, or the other way around. It wound not surprise me at all. That is why I think they should try to cure all sorts of diseases without thinking one is more important than others. We dont value aesthetics because we are taught to. This value is inate, you will value aesthetics anyway, it is your nature that tells you to do it.

People always care more about the diseases they and their loved ones are afflicted with, and think everyone else should too. If you get cancer, you will change your mind. You'll start spending more time looking at the latest cancer research than Androgenetic Alopecia research.
 

bobby dearfield

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People always care more about the diseases they and their loved ones are afflicted with, and think everyone else should too. If you get cancer, you will change your mind. You'll start spending more time looking at the latest cancer research than Androgenetic Alopecia research.

Hey, I'm not saying hair loss should be more important than a cancer cure, off course it's not. I just said the number of affected people are larger in hair loss because someone said the contrary and its wrong, that is estatistics, simply, one cannot argue that. I also said it is pretty common to find a treatment to a disease while trying to solve another. That happens all the time, for example with Hair Loss as you know, Rogaine, Propecia and Latisse were discovered by being side effects of drugs intended to treat other conditions, heart disease, glaucoma... They're not a result of studying hair loss. That's why I said I wouldn't be surprised at all if it happened and maybe it is even more likely to happen this way.
 

Norwood One

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You wan't millions of dollars? You go to a bald millionaire that has money to give, convince him he needs hair.

The problem is the bald millionaire can pretty much just buy his way thorough life, be it women, or whatever. He doesn't need hair to impress

Catch-22.

I'm going to comment on what Fred said. Men in general are seen as the more disposable gender. Blame evolution, Men are not seen as valuable as women are. Never will be.

On top of that, we consider being vain a faux-pas for men. We are supposed to be busy with "things more important than our looks" like our careers and whatnot. That's why a guy who is a metrosexual is mocked, a woman who is high maintenance is praised. Unfortunately, women are as vain as men when it comes to looks and finding a mate. So how can they tell us not to be vain?

It's a ****ed up system guys. I wish we had a solution.
 

Bagels

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Damn. I'm still waiting for the good news that came out of the conference. If there was any.

Same. I mean, certainly we have some news about growth injections and possible future stem cell stuff. I feel like this stuff is far from being mainstream. Not everyone can fly to Japan to get injections or treatments. For example, the Histogen interview with injections was cool, but even when it does get FDA approval, it would be years before it picks up steam and popularity and comes to a local derm near you. I think we're still far from new treatments that you can get at your local pharmacy or done by a common dermatologist.
 
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You wan't millions of dollars? You go to a bald millionaire that has money to give, convince him he needs hair.

The problem is the bald millionaire can pretty much just buy his way thorough life, be it women, or whatever. He doesn't need hair to impress

Catch-22.

I'm going to comment on what Fred said. Men in general are seen as the more disposable gender. Blame evolution, Men are not seen as valuable as women are. Never will be.

On top of that, we consider being vain a faux-pas for men. We are supposed to be busy with "things more important than our looks" like our careers and whatnot. That's why a guy who is a metrosexual is mocked, a woman who is high maintenance is praised. Unfortunately, women are as vain as men when it comes to looks and finding a mate. So how can they tell us not to be vain?

It's a ****ed up system guys. I wish we had a solution.

That is a fact that is rarely highlighted... at the end it is rather men that have to pay. Only the fact that women get children creates some balance again.

I am happy that this forum exists because I can rarley talk about my hair loss and the issues I have with any of my friends, colleges or family... may they be male or female. We are just supposed to be concerned with things that "really matter" and not supposed to wine about our looks. But, I am actually not complaining about this fact too much... it has its positive side that others may think I do not care.

Perhaps that is the same reason why there are so many men with hair loss who just tell "I do not do anything against my hair loss" in surveys about this issue. Men are scared of hair loss... but will never admit that they actually care too much about it.
 
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Looks are what matters the most in life, people who don't agree with that are delusional.

Are you really so sure about this? I would say looks will bring you far in life but what if you make 0 use of it? I believe that what changes you life the most is the degree of freedom in the society you live in and how functionally the institutions are (external factors) and what you make out of it: Your attitude and habits (internal factors). Looks can help you to get what you want when you have right attitude and not the other way around.
 

I.D WALKER

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Baldness and other physical disfiguring problems, genetic or otherwise coupled by our augmenting cultural superficiality and subversive attitude issues etc.., can and will lead to feelings of utter despair and even societal persecution.
Falling maybe a close second to our human basic needs in their order of hierarchy.
 

Mach

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Looks are what matters the most in life, people who don't agree with that are delusional.

+1 however, 3 guys walk into a meeting. 1 skinny, 1 overweight, 1 fit. Guess who'll get more respect.

Back to my idea of university professors. Most need money for research grants. We should set up a protocol and they just get subjects. Basically like the wounding and minoxidil study. 3-5 guys in a study. Chemical did a great post on another forum. I'm sure that theory would be a start.
 

eenrak

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You can go from fat to fit (or skinny) easily, but sometimes you can't become muscular no matter how hard you try.

As I always say, just exercise regularly and keep a healthy weight.
Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I have noticed that you often claim to be a hard-gainer. I believe that some people find it, to some degree, harder than others to gain weight, but also believe that any man can pack on some muscle. If you don't want to, fine, but let me tell you that you should not use it as an excuse to not try. Obviously, you have probably tried, but have you truly tried a decent body building programme while being in a caloric surplus? If you progressively overload (get stronger or do more sets and reps) whilst eating (~500kcal) more calories than you need to maintain, you should gain on muscle ( and fat to some degree, depending on the size of the surplus).
Take it from a personal trainer who has seen people go from extremely skinny/skinny-fat to jacked.
 

Captain Hook

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Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I have noticed that you often claim to be a hard-gainer. I believe that some people find it, to some degree, harder than others to gain weight, but also believe that any man can pack on some muscle. If you don't want to, fine, but let me tell you that you should not use it as an excuse to not try. Obviously, you have probably tried, but have you truly tried a decent body building programme while being in a caloric surplus? If you progressively overload (get stronger or do more sets and reps) whilst eating (~500kcal) more calories than you need to maintain, you should gain on muscle ( and fat to some degree, depending on the size of the surplus).
Take it from a personal trainer who has seen people go from extremely skinny/skinny-fat to jacked.

This is true. I went from 64 kg when I was 18 to being 74 kg now at 21, with only a modest increase in body fat percentage (~7% to ~9%). You can lift all you want but if you aren't at a 300-500 caloric surplus it will be difficult to gain muscle.
 
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