Why Is Finasteride The Holy Grail Of These Forums? (my Experience With Finasteride)

[Illusions]

First of all, I know this isn't going to go down well with you elite hair loss experts on here but I'm more than willing to have some dislikes in exchange for helping out a lot of new comers to the hair loss community.

So a rundown of my story - I started taking finasteride in 2015 and was on it up until 6 months or so ago. Even from a young age I always had a fear of losing my hair and when I got to around 16-17 years old I would begin taking pictures of my crown and hairline even though there was no visible hair loss what so ever. When I first started taking finasteride my hair seemed worse off for the first few months but then seemed to get thicker (this is important for later on). My hairline obviously matured a bit as I got older (even whilst on finasteride) but since I stopped taking finasteride 6 months ago my hair has never looked better, the reason I decided to stop was because I wanted to live a natural healthy lifestyle and I'm also trying for a child with my wife and almost instantly after that I felt better, my only regret is not coming off it sooner as whilst I didn't get any side effects, I also didn't get any noticable regrowth.

I will defend finasteride when it comes to side effects as I believe some people get sides purely due to psychological fear and anticipation. I didn't even look at the side effects until a year after taking a drug because I thought if I don't even know what the side effects are then I have less chance to get them and I recommend to anyone starting finasteride, you must not dwell on the possibility of getting a limp dick, if you get sides then fine you can stop but if not you carry on, there's nothing to worry about.

Going back to the psychological side effects, I also believe when I thought my hair was getting thinner/thicker off finasteride that was also mental, as now that I look back at older pictures my hair looked the exact same throughout the entirety of the time I was on finasteride. Angles and lighting can be extremely deceiving.

I know most of you are obviously going to disagree but I know there's many of you here who are on finasteride every day and also have had transplants and still have extremely thin hair. I know we all obviously believe our opinion is the right one but unless your hair was thinning rapidly and finasteride completely reversed everything and grew all your hair back, then I personally don't think it should be considered the holy grail.

We know that there's many causes of hair loss and I truly believe that DHT only plays a part and not all balding men are sensitive to DHT. I believe that diet, stress, lifestyle, genetics (regardless of blocking DHT) all play a huge role too. Also, as someone who now has a degree in psychology, I also believe that in young men, their hair loss may all be in their head, this is pretty much proven by the massive amount of young men on here with a NW0/1 full head of hair asking if they're balding. In this day and age we live in an extremely insecure and judgemental era, so our looks mean everything to us, so much so that we're often afraid to lose them. All of these things I've listed that play a factor, I've experienced first hand.

If you're the bro scientist who believes popping a pill of finasteride will one day give you a full head of hair then save yourself the time and don't bother with the silly petty remarks because someone doesn't share your opinion. This thread is here to help those who aren't sure what route to take, because whilst finasteride may help some people regrow their hair, there's no saying that your hair loss is necessarily due to DHT sensitive in follicles. My advice on anyone taking finasteride would be - try it for 12-18 months and if there's no noticeable improvement then come off the drug, it's completely pointless if it's not doing anything after that time period and that it's self should be an indicator that your hair loss isn't due to

In summary, I am in no way saying that finasteride doesn't work for anybody, but I am saying that it doesn't work for everybody

 

[Ollie]

The problem with gauging efficacy when you’re not growing back all your hair on a drug is you can’t tell it’s not working because for many just maintaining that is a victory. Some people have been on for a couple years and when they haven’t grown back all their hair they assume it’s just not working, only to come off and find it was actually maintaining their hair. Some people respond well to finasteride though and regrow all their hair. Unfortunately we don’t have better options .

 

[hairnohair]

I don't believe in "maintaining". I've seen people "maintain" for crazy amounts of time, my father went from thick afro-like nw2 to nw3 with thinning in a few years and then "maintained" for 10 years without taking anything. I think the reason people lose their hair when they quit finasteride is because of the sudden hormone change. Your body is adjusted to the reduced 5ar activity, and suddenly the balance is shifted (that's why it doesn't happen as bad if you taper off the dosage instead of quitting cold turkey). Not everyone responds positively to Finasteride. Some might not respond at all, some may even lose more hair.

 

[Alphalete]

cus its all we got..

 

[Btg]

First of all, I know this isn't going to go down well with you elite hair loss experts on here but I'm more than willing to have some dislikes in exchange for helping out a lot of new comers to the hair loss community.

So a rundown of my story - I started taking finasteride in 2015 and was on it up until 6 months or so ago. Even from a young age I always had a fear of losing my hair and when I got to around 16-17 years old I would begin taking pictures of my crown and hairline even though there was no visible hair loss what so ever. When I first started taking finasteride my hair seemed worse off for the first few months but then seemed to get thicker (this is important for later on). My hairline obviously matured a bit as I got older (even whilst on finasteride) but since I stopped taking finasteride 6 months ago my hair has never looked better, the reason I decided to stop was because I wanted to live a natural healthy lifestyle and I'm also trying for a child with my wife and almost instantly after that I felt better, my only regret is not coming off it sooner as whilst I didn't get any side effects, I also didn't get any noticable regrowth.

I will defend finasteride when it comes to side effects as I believe some people get sides purely due to psychological fear and anticipation. I didn't even look at the side effects until a year after taking a drug because I thought if I don't even know what the side effects are then I have less chance to get them and I recommend to anyone starting finasteride, you must not dwell on the possibility of getting a limp dick, if you get sides then fine you can stop but if not you carry on, there's nothing to worry about.

Going back to the psychological side effects, I also believe when I thought my hair was getting thinner/thicker off finasteride that was also mental, as now that I look back at older pictures my hair looked the exact same throughout the entirety of the time I was on finasteride. Angles and lighting can be extremely deceiving.

I know most of you are obviously going to disagree but I know there's many of you here who are on finasteride every day and also have had transplants and still have extremely thin hair. I know we all obviously believe our opinion is the right one but unless your hair was thinning rapidly and finasteride completely reversed everything and grew all your hair back, then I personally don't think it should be considered the holy grail.

We know that there's many causes of hair loss and I truly believe that DHT only plays a part and not all balding men are sensitive to DHT. I believe that diet, stress, lifestyle, genetics (regardless of blocking DHT) all play a huge role too. Also, as someone who now has a degree in psychology, I also believe that in young men, their hair loss may all be in their head, this is pretty much proven by the massive amount of young men on here with a NW0/1 full head of hair asking if they're balding. In this day and age we live in an extremely insecure and judgemental era, so our looks mean everything to us, so much so that we're often afraid to lose them. All of these things I've listed that play a factor, I've experienced first hand.

If you're the bro scientist who believes popping a pill of finasteride will one day give you a full head of hair then save yourself the time and don't bother with the silly petty remarks because someone doesn't share your opinion. This thread is here to help those who aren't sure what route to take, because whilst finasteride may help some people regrow their hair, there's no saying that your hair loss is necessarily due to DHT sensitive in follicles. My advice on anyone taking finasteride would be - try it for 12-18 months and if there's no noticeable improvement then come off the drug, it's completely pointless if it's not doing anything after that time period and that it's self should be an indicator that your hair loss isn't due to

In summary, I am in no way saying that finasteride doesn't work for anybody, but I am saying that it doesn't work for everybody

Well i stopped finasteride 10 months ago and i ve lost a significant amount of hair , maybe it didnt work for you

 

[Tommybommy1363]

The thing is the efficacy of a treatment isn’t based on opinion... it is based on data. Based on the available data we have nothing comes close to the efficacy of propecia. When Cb comes out that may change

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

Right now blocking DHT is only option and finasteride do this job for almost everybody. Once follicle dies by DHT it cannot be grown but finasteride at least protect remaining hairs by blocking DHT.
Lifestyle, diet,age has 0.0000001 % involvement in making someone bald. It is Androgen sensitivity of head hairs which makes bald bald.

 

[abcdefg]

Holy grail? Its the only treatment we have that actually does anything to slow down or stop male pattern baldness. Its this simple. Try it, and risk the potential sides which definitely exist or accept male pattern baldness unless something else is released.
You dont think male pattern baldness is all DHT okay. Well I think women, and castrated men kind of have proven that male pattern baldness is largely a male problem, and its driven mostly by male hormones. This is what science has proven not your pet theory that in some men its not. Of course propecia does not have 100 percent efficacy, but it does work and its as good as it gets right now.
I think women alone disproves the theory that diet and environmental factors are a large driver of male pattern baldness. Just women alone go look at some. Their hair, and lack of body hair/facial hair. Go look at large numbers of older women and their husbands. Compare their hair quality. Most women are 50+ have teenage Norwood 1 super thick hair they lost almost none over decades. Women dont eat bad, and not subject to bad environmental factors like men? The difference is nothing but staggering yet people dont have explanation for this. I can say this the hormones are very different between men and women maybe this accounts for some of it? Im open to other better explanations

 

[hairnohair]

Holy grail? Its the only treatment we have that actually does anything to slow down or stop male pattern baldness. Its this simple. Try it, and risk the potential sides which definitely exist or accept male pattern baldness unless something else is released.
You dont think male pattern baldness is all DHT okay. Well I think women, and castrated men kind of have proven that male pattern baldness is largely a male problem, and its driven mostly by male hormones. This is what science has proven not your pet theory that in some men its not. Of course propecia does not have 100 percent efficacy, but it does work and its as good as it gets right now.
I think women alone disproves the theory that diet and environmental factors are a large driver of male pattern baldness. Just women alone go look at some. Their hair, and lack of body hair/facial hair. Go look at large numbers of older women and their husbands. Compare their hair quality. Most women are 50+ have teenage Norwood 1 super thick hair they lost almost none over decades. Women dont eat bad, and not subject to bad environmental factors like men? The difference is nothing but staggering yet people dont have explanation for this. I can say this the hormones are very different between men and women maybe this accounts for some of it? Im open to other better explanations

Hormones matter. Women do lose their hair, few lose their hairlines but most of them show signs of diffuse thinning in a typical horseshoe shape. Some women, especially those with hormonal imbalances, lose their hair earlier in life. It's called Female Pattern Baldness, and is measure using the Ludwig scale. Many old ladies wear wigs, that's why you might not see many bald ladies but it's very common. I had a female teacher in elementary school that was basically a NW6/7.

I think that androgens alone don't explain the progession of male pattern baldness, if your follicles were DHT sensitive from the start, then you would have gone bald at the start of puberty, all at once, no recession, no thinning. Or you want to tell me that the follicle's DHT sensitivity tapers down as you go down the head? Because that's another level of stupid.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm sure that the shape of the head OR the shape of the head's vascularization has something to do with the progression of baldness. Women usually have rounder, egg shaped heads. A more even distribution of weight leads to uniform thinning as soon as the progression of baldness starts. Men usually have a more angular head, prominent temples and a prominet bump above the forehead. This puts more pressure on some parts of the scalp, less in others, which causes baldness to develop in a more pronounced pattern. These are just my thoughts, don't take them as facts. Surely androgens are a key part of this process but nuking the levels of androgens doesn't grow the hair back by itself, and it doesn't even stop hair loss for a lot of people, whether you like it or not.

 

[Tommybommy1363]

Hormones matter. Women do lose their hair, few lose their hairlines but most of them show signs of diffuse thinning in a typical horseshoe shape. Some women, especially those with hormonal imbalances, lose their hair earlier in life. It's called Female Pattern Baldness, and is measure using the Ludwig scale. Many old ladies wear wigs, that's why you might not see many bald ladies but it's very common. I had a female teacher in elementary school that was basically a NW6/7.

I think that androgens alone don't explain the progession of male pattern baldness, if your follicles were DHT sensitive from the start, then you would have gone bald at the start of puberty, all at once, no recession, no thinning. Or you want to tell me that the follicle's DHT sensitivity tapers down as you go down the head? Because that's another level of stupid.

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm sure that the shape of the head OR the shape of the head's vascularization has something to do with the progression of baldness. Women usually have rounder, egg shaped heads. A more even distribution of weight leads to uniform thinning as soon as the progression of baldness starts. Men usually have a more angular head, prominent temples and a prominet bump above the forehead. This puts more pressure on some parts of the scalp, less in others, which causes baldness to develop in a more pronounced pattern. These are just my thoughts, don't take them as facts. Surely androgens are a key part of this process but nuking the levels of androgens doesn't grow the hair back by itself, and it doesn't even stop hair loss for a lot of people, whether you like it or not.

Again you are just guessing and stating an opinion which is useless. We have data showing that AR expression is higher in balding men. We also have data showing that 5ar and AR expression is less in the occipital region of hair, so no it isn’t “another level of stupid”.

Hair transplanted from the top of the head to places like the arm will still miniaturize unlike occipital hair which really sheds doubt on the mechanical stress theory

 

[hairnohair]

Again you are just guessing and stating an opinion which is useless. We have data showing that AR expression is higher in balding men. We also have data showing that 5ar and AR expression is less in the occipital region of hair, so no it isn’t “another level of stupid”.

Hair transplanted from the top of the head to places like the arm will still miniaturize unlike occipital hair which really sheds doubt on the mechanical stress theory

I'm not saying that mechanical stress causes hair loss directly, I'm saying that tension and/or reduced blood flow might upregulate androgen sensitivity. Once the follicle is affected, it is unlikely to return to normal even if transplanted to another part of the body. This would explain the gradual progression. Your explanation doesn't, it is incomplete at best and based on archaic research.

 

[hairnohair]

I started losing my hair quickly about 8 years ago, depression and denial followed. Comments and giggling co workers and some seriously secret hurt feelings and loss of confidence too, I read in the Sun newspaper one day about Dec Donnelys secret "wonder pill" that cost as little as £1 per day, Propecia, I researched it, a lot, made an appointment with a doctor and got a prescription for 1 month costing £48, 1 week with tender breasts and then zero side effects, no erection problems no nothing, I heard whispers about 10 months later "is his hair growing back?". I couldn't look, by accident in a changing room I saw for myself, it was, my crown was slightly thicker. I added minoxidil in year 2, my hair grew back massively, I could see my crown really filling in on my work cctv, I applied religiously. I'm not as religious with it as i use to be, my crown is full and thick and I thank God it worked, I use nizorol once in a while if my scalps itchy. Minoxidil is available on eBay for £15 per months treatment, the more you buy the cheaper it is. I use boots for Propecia and it's £160 For a a six months supply, if hair loss bothers you as much as it did me then do what I did except add minoxidil right away, it works, I'm happy, any questions ask away, I've become a pro

>Joined today
>Promoting finasteride

In case you are a real person, good for you but you have been lucky. Also, crown regrowth is easy, minoxidil can do that by itself, but nobody ever regrew temples on finasteride and min and the frontal region is a huge maybe. My crown is fine, and I'm not spending 500$ a year for a maybe and possible terrible sides.

 

[Zeus7]

Yeah I'm a real person, I read these forums years ago and thought I'd come back and share, haven't been in a long time so wasn't aware of Propecia promoting plants lol

 

[Tommybommy1363]

I'm not saying that mechanical stress causes hair loss directly, I'm saying that tension and/or reduced blood flow might upregulate androgen sensitivity. Once the follicle is affected, it is unlikely to return to normal even if transplanted to another part of the body. This would explain the gradual progression. Your explanation doesn't, it is incomplete at best and based on archaic research.

The studies used qpcr to compare cellular gene expression, I would not call that archaic but still pretty standard.

Propecia has been proven effective with the gold standard double blind randomized control study. That will never be archaic.

Your theory is plausible but is still just a guess as we don’t have data. Unless you can show me something which shows a correlation between mechanical stress and ar expression of course...

 

[hairnohair]

The studies used qpcr to compare cellular gene expression, I would not call that archaic but still pretty standard.

Propecia has been proven effective with the gold standard double blind randomized control study. That will never be archaic.

Your theory is plausible but is still just a guess as we don’t have data. Unless you can show me something which shows a correlation between mechanical stress and ar expression of course...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

This also might explain why transplants don't always last, the wound would create a drop in tension and an increase in vascularization, but with time the same mechanical stress might develop again and impact the transplanted follicles. It makes much more sense than the "DHT resistance" theory, which sounds much more like guesswork than anything else. Also, I can't really find a study I read some time ago, that stated that both hair from the NW7 area and hair from a non-balding man would miniaturize once exposed to a big enough dose of androgens.

 

[Tommybommy1363]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/

This also might explain why transplants don't always last, the wound would create a drop in tension and an increase in vascularization, but with time the same mechanical stress might develop again and impact the transplanted follicles. It makes much more sense than the "DHT resistance" theory, which sounds much more like guesswork than anything else. Also, I can't really find a study I read some time ago, that stated that both hair from the NW7 area and hair from a non-balding man would miniaturize once exposed to a big enough dose of androgens.

This paper does not show a correlation between AR express and mechanical stress, just a correlation with hair count. I don’t think anyone has actually correlated mechanical stress and AR expression, which as I said would be interesting and could be a very revealing study.

Dht resistance isn’t a theory, it has been shown. The AR in occipital hair is less expressed. The exact mechanism of this isn’t known. Mechanical stress is a possible guess, but it’s still just a guess.

Even if ar overexpression was caused by mechanical stress doesn’t make propecia any less effective. It’s really our only effective long term treatment option, I don’t understand why it gets so much hate

 

[hairnohair]

This paper does not show a correlation between AR express and mechanical stress, just a correlation with hair count. I don’t think anyone has actually correlated mechanical stress and AR expression, which as I said would be interesting and could be a very revealing study.

Dht resistance isn’t a theory, it has been shown. The AR in occipital hair is less expressed. The exact mechanism of this isn’t known. Mechanical stress is a possible guess, but it’s still just a guess.

Even if ar overexpression was caused by mechanical stress doesn’t make propecia any less effective. It’s really our only effective long term treatment option, I don’t understand why it gets so much hate

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411 This one is another interesting article.

I hate finasteride because it's not an effective treatment for everyone, and hormone regulation is not something that should be messed with IMO. If it was a common cold medicine and had these important sides, it would have been pulled out of the market a long time ago. I've seen many people get worse from using it, or maybe regrow just to lose even more in the time of a couple of years. I don't judge the people using it, I judge the people selling it and doctors suggesting it like it was some hair-growing candy. Then I come here and see people suggesting it to 18 year old guys… it's pure insanity. Dermarolling+Minoxidil has confirmed to be a better treatment, I'm never gonna take Minoxidil because I'm scared shitless of something happening to my house cat or the cat colony I spend a lot of time with everyday, but studies have confirmed that going with dermarolling only should give some decent results, I'm gonna look into other growth boosters. Topical duta/finasteride seems like a slight step towards safety, but many people say it only works because some of it is going systemic.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

I am firm believer in DHT sensitivity theory but mechanical stress theory is also interesting. It could be following way ,the constant mechanical stress of years over top of head somehow changes AR gene expression permanently and few gene variations succumb to this change more than others (G allele of AR gene) once gene expression changes it is most likely cannot not be reversed ,that's why balding hairs transplanted to other areas would still dies.

 

[hairnohair]

I am firm believer in DHT sensitivity theory but mechanical stress theory is also interesting. It could be following way ,the constant mechanical stress of years over top of head somehow changes AR gene expression permanently and few gene variations succumb to this change more than others (G allele of AR gene) once gene expression changes it is most likely cannot not be reversed ,that's why balding hairs transplanted to other areas would still dies.

There's no need to be a believer in DHT sensitivity, it is already proven to be true. What I'm saying is that finding what triggers it and any potential way to bring it back to normal should be the focus. Androgen modulation is a very dangerous thing and it should not be done to address a problem purely based on looks.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

There's no need to be a believer in DHT sensitivity, it is already proven to be true. What I'm saying is that finding what triggers it and any potential way to bring it back to normal should be the focus. Androgen modulation is a very dangerous thing and it should not be done to address a problem purely based on looks.

I think bald men are less virile .a normal non bald man requires optimum androgen and moderate AR sensitivity to keep his manhood.in bald men duriing puberty and young adulthood the copious amount of testosterone and DHT keep their bodies working finely(keeps their manliness) but as testosterone plummet their bodies could not cope with that and their manhood is at risk. To keep testosterone levels high like a pubertal or young man,body would have to change itself thoroughly .which is not simple task. So this less manly men's bodies tries to increase sensitivity of androgens in great extent so that little testosterone can do its job of keeping their manhood. As it has been established fact that bald men actually have low testosterone levels.