Which sounds like it would burn more muscle:

[CCS]

1. Burn and average of 120 calories per hour for 16 hours (15 minutes of IT spread out three times that day an hour after meals to keep metabolism up) and 600 while sleeping (2500 total), while consuming an average of 125 calories per hour for the 16 waking hours 16 hours (2000 total), with a total calorie deficit of 500 calores. Lose 1/7 pound that day. (I did not specify what that pound is made of)

2. Run first thing in the morning. Run doing IT until you burn 500 calories. The rest of the day, eat as many calories as you need then plus a little extra for your sleep period so that your deficit is 500 calories. Lose 1/7 pound that day.

Which of these methods do you think catabolises more muscle? Both use interval training. The first spreads the calorie deficit out long and even, and burns carbs during the actual event and uses fat stores for the rest of the day. The second one uses fat stores during the IT, and burns it just as strong, but all at once in maybe 45+ minutes, and then uses carbs during the rest of the day.

 

[CCS]

A lot of "experts" on BB.com disagree. Most say it is best to do it in the morning, but to save muscle. They say it is easier to burn fat this way, and don't mention catabolism. The ones I read in favor of spreading it out did not mention catabolism; they just said "total in minus total out". I have to wonder if any of these guys know what they are talking about. I suspect anything is better than nothing, and these guys just put in a lot of work to get their results even if they don't know what they are doing.



I'll start the brainstorming: When energy needs exceed the bodies energy supplies (ATP, creatine, glycogen, blood sugar, fat, protein) from a prefered source, it dips into other sources and also tries to replenish the immediate sources with the less desired one to reach homostecis.

The first 4 get used quick. For example, creatine acts like ATP after 8 seconds, and recharges ATP if you stop then. Your body never stops using ATP, but it only needs ATP in the first 8 seconds, and quickly looks for different things to recharge it after those 8 seconds. Fat recharges glycogen.

If you do high intensity stuff for over and hour, and don't drink a sports drink (like tri-athletes do) during this time, your body will eventually start useing protein as well as fat, even though you have plenty of fat on your body.

That is what I know.
--------------------
Here is where specualtion begins:

If you burn the same number of calories, what is more taxing: all at once, or sustained lightly over many hours?

The answer lies in why the body turns to protein when you have so much fat available. I don't know if it has something to do with insulin or hormones or a bodily thought process of getting rid of the source of the calorie burn, but I suspect it is something different. I think the body can only draw fat out of fat cells and convert it to energy so fast. I think when intensity is high, and the carbs get used up, and the energy need is greater than the fat energy can arrive, the body supplements the energy from other sources, protein. Now if you'd stop and give it a few minutes to stock up on glycogen, or just lower the intensity, you'd be fine. So IT probably get's around that. So do short exercises and low intensity ones.

We know that both will burn fat. The only issue is which burns less muscle. Your glycogen levels are at least as depleted after sleeping as after the first rutine.

I think we know that low intensity aerobics burn little muscle. Their only downside is their length can overtrain fast twitch muscle, and they don't increase VO2 max or stimulate muscle growth. IT gets the best of both. The day fast of the first rutine then would not cause muscle loss, at least not more than any other calorie deficit phenomena known, such as sleep.

So I think the spread out method would burn less muscle. I should just not let the calorie deficit exceed 1000 calories in a day. That is a little over 3 months to lose 10 pounds on my 3 day split, but I'll be gaining muscle at a non-dieting pace too.

 

[buzzmenot]

Perhaps look at the color of your urine after your workout to know what was burned. very yellow = muscles eaten.... works for me

 

[Lorenzo_91]

Are you serious about the color of your urine thing?

 

[H2O]

Are you serious about the color of your urine thing?

Hopefully he's not because it is just plain wrong = absolutely not true.

 

[CCS]

Are you serious about the color of your urine thing?

Hopefully he's not because it is just plain wrong = absolutely not true.

He is kind of right, and kind of wrong. Unlike when fat and carbohydrates are burned, burning protein releases nitrogen which becomes the yellow part of urine. So if you burn muscle, your urine will be more yellow.

However, if you are dehydrated or use more water in your workout than you think, or if you eat a gazzillion grams of protein and your body burned that, but not your muscles, your urine will still have more yellow it it. So while he is partially right, none of what he said is actually useful.

 

[CCS]

If you want to give your muscles and heart a good workout, drink some pulp free juice with amino acids it it. I don't know the optimal concentration for fast absorption, but there should be 20% as much protein as carbs. However, you don't even need the protein. The juice is good enough.

Your body can use fat faster once you are in shape cardiovascularly. Until then, 70% heart rate is probably just below where most people burn muscle once their glycogen runs out. So if you want to do more than 70% on average, in the morning or for more than 30 minutes, drink a little juice during your workout to make sure you don't burn muscle. If you burn 700 calories in 1 hour, probably 200 came from glycogen, 200 from muscle, and 300 from fat. So you should have drank 200 calories of sugar in that time and you would have been fine. And drinking protein will not offset this much. The sugar is the money maker. Any protein you drink will just be there for muscle regrowth later.

 

[buzzmenot]

He is kind of right, and kind of wrong. Unlike when fat and carbohydrates are burned, burning protein releases nitrogen which becomes the yellow part of urine. So if you burn muscle, your urine will be more yellow.

However, if you are dehydrated or use more water in your workout than you think, or if you eat a gazzillion grams of protein and your body burned that, but not your muscles, your urine will still have more yellow it it. So while he is partially right, none of what he said is actually useful.

you're right about the nitrogen part, sorry if my post is obscure. just a suggestion of a simple gauge for the workout plan A vs workout plan B dilemma you're having.