Which is safer: finasteride or RU

[optimus prime]

Interested in what people think is safer.

finasteride can mess with hormones, and has some major side effects for some.

RU can cause side effects but can be controlled by reducing the amount of RU.

However do we know if it can cause long term skin damage? Or am I just as likely to get skin damage from spironolactone S5 as I am RU?

 

[Ende]

RU58841, no doubt, but significant, systemic absorption can have some serious consequences over time, like drastically increased testosterone production (and thereby increased aromatase activity, which could shift some hormone ratios), and liver damage. However, people will reduce the dose when they experience brain fog, which is one of the first signs of systemic absorption.

Finasteride can easily cause secondary hypogonadism, and the damage is difficult to reverse.

As a general rule; local treatments are superior to systemic treatments in relation to side effects.

 

[optimus prime]

Thanks Enden.

I did not really get many sides from finasteride, so hopefully I will be fine with RU. I think I might give RU a go.

The watery semen for 3 years is a bit of a worry, so I think it's best to give other treatments a try.

 

[Spanishlad]

How can you possibly know RU is safer. finasteride has undergone countless clinical studies and has been used by thousands of people for over 20 years,so we pretty much know all the side effects. With RU there hasnt been anywhere near as many studies. and it has never been approved by the FDA. Just because less people are reporting sides doesnt mean its safer, There may be side effects that only appear after many years of use.
Of course there is just no way of knowing this so to say it is safer no doubt is a rather brave statement.

 

[Ende]

I've used them both, and if you don't understand the basics of safe medication, and the risk you take by using reductase inhibitors, you have some reading to do. Finasteride is a dangerous drug, and despite all the years of experience, the authorities haven't recorded anything about hyperprolactinaemia, hyperthyroidism and secondary hypogonadism.

 

[Spanishlad]

I do understand the risks associated with finasteride and I dont take them lightly my decision to use finasteride was taken bearing all this in mind.
RU may be a lot safer than finasteride all I was saying is that we cannot know for certain that this is the case until many more studies have been conducted and long term effects have been understood.
just because you have used both is no reason assume RU is safer. You may very well be right but I dont see how you can say this with such certainty.

 

[Ende]

Do you? RU58841 is a topical drug which blocks the androgen receptors on your scalp. Finasteride is an oral drug which reduces the level of a very important hormone with around 70%. That makes RU58841 safer than finasteride.

RU58841 is a well known compound. It has been tested for many years, including on humans. It didn't reach the market, simply because Prostrakan didn't get a partner for development. Probably because everyone thinks that Propecia is a safe drug, and people would prefer a pill every day, instead of a topical drug. There are serious risks associated with the use of anti-androgens like RU58841 too, but that's only if you overdose.

RU58841 is not only safer, it's a lot more effective than Propecia too.

 

[Ende]

The system they have for testing drugs is bullshit anyway. Besides efficiency and safety, the individual's tolerance is the only thing that really matters. Something which barely affects you, could kill another. Because of that, new side effects are always discovered post marketing.

 

[Spanishlad]

Just because finasteride reduces DHT by 70% and RU doesn't does not make RU safer, obviously the risks associated with reduced DHT do not exist with RU and this can only be a good thing, but this has no relevance to the point I was trying to make.
From what I remember the human trials of RU were only conducted on about 40 people,is this what makes you think its safe?. If finasteride was tested on 40 people chances are none of them would report sides but it doesn't mean they don't exist.
My point was that there are still unknowns about RU and while there is still the potential for unknown side effects I don't understand how you could boldly state that it is undoubtedly safer than finasteride when there is obviously some element of doubt.

 

[Ende]

I repeat

RU58841 is a topical drug which blocks the androgen receptors on your scalp. Finasteride is an oral drug which reduces the level of a very important hormone with around 70%. That makes RU58841 safer than finasteride.

Local treatment is always safer than systemic treatment, and as I've expressed, the system they have for testing drugs isn't reliable. If you want to ignore those points, that's fine.

 

[Tyler_Durden]

Ru probably, but considering I'm yet to see a case with results even 1/10th as good as a decent finasteride result, I'm willing to bear the extra risk.

And who knows what you are getting from these dodgy Chinese manufacturers. Certainly in theory topically applied RU should reduce the risk of side effects, although it seems a lot of people who react badly to finasteride don't fare any better with RU.

 

[Ende]

I do.

 

[smitysmity]

The system they have for testing drugs is bullshit anyway. Besides efficiency and safety, the individual's tolerance is the only thing that really matters. Something which barely affects you, could kill another. Because of that, new side effects are always discovered post marketing.

That's very true and I know from experience, with Finasteride and minoxidil.

finasteride,

What happened to you when you were using Finasteride and Minoxidil?

 

[Wuffer]

Finasteride can easily cause secondary hypogonadism

Really? Because it happened to you, it could easily happen to the millions of other people on finasteride?

 

[Ende]

Finasteride can easily cause secondary hypogonadism

Really? Because it happened to you, it could easily happen to the millions of other people on finasteride?

No, it can easily happen because DHT is the estrogen antagonist, and excessive estrogen is a common cause for secondary hypogonadism. I believe that DHT is the hormone which maintains the testosterone/estrogen ratio. In addition; as men age, our testosterone production gradually declines, which means that the testosterone/estrogen ratio slowly but surely shifts in favor of estrogen. This is what they call andropause. Just imagine how this could affect men on finasteride, especially if they put on some extra weight, like a lot of men do in their 30's.

 

[ajax]

Do you? RU58841 is a topical drug which blocks the androgen receptors on your scalp. Finasteride is an oral drug which reduces the level of a very important hormone with around 70%. That makes RU58841 safer than finasteride.

RU58841 is a well known compound. It has been tested for many years, including on humans. It didn't reach the market, simply because Prostrakan didn't get a partner for development. Probably because everyone thinks that Propecia is a safe drug, and people would prefer a pill every day, instead of a topical drug. There are serious risks associated with the use of anti-androgens like RU58841 too, but that's only if you overdose.

RU58841 is not only safer, it's a lot more effective than Propecia too.

I have to agree that these are bold statements that may have some evidence to back them up, but not a great deal, and not enough IMO to say for definate that RU is a safe drug.

I think when advising people about this its important to note that in theory it should be a relatively safe drug to use, however there isn't enough data to say for definate that this is that case, and that you use it at your own risk.

 

[ajax]

RU58841, no doubt, but significant, systemic absorption can have some serious consequences over time, like drastically increased testosterone production (and thereby increased aromatase activity, which could shift some hormone ratios), and liver damage. However, people will reduce the dose when they experience brain fog, which is one of the first signs of systemic absorption.

Finasteride can easily cause secondary hypogonadism, and the damage is difficult to reverse.

As a general rule; local treatments are superior to systemic treatments in relation to side effects.

What happens if they dont realise they are overdosing, what happens if they dont get any signs of systemic absorption?

Its not an exact science to say "hmm well they get brain fog and know to reduce the dose"

Again its important to note that you use at your own risk, and that no-one can say for definate that this drug is actually safe... even if in theory it appears to be so

 

[blaze]

Yeah..all drugs have potential side effects even over the counter stuff like panadol and asprin.

And no one can tell you which is going to be "safer" for *you*. You do the research and make the most informed decision you can, then take it from there.

We are all accountable for our own actions and the last thing I want to see is people coming back here and complaining that poster so-and-so told me RU was safer and now i am having problems. Why didnt you warm me or inform me.

Side effects are a potential for ANY drug. You have officially been warned.

 

[Ende]

RU58841, no doubt, but significant, systemic absorption can have some serious consequences over time, like drastically increased testosterone production (and thereby increased aromatase activity, which could shift some hormone ratios), and liver damage. However, people will reduce the dose when they experience brain fog, which is one of the first signs of systemic absorption.

Finasteride can easily cause secondary hypogonadism, and the damage is difficult to reverse.

As a general rule; local treatments are superior to systemic treatments in relation to side effects.

What happens if they dont realise they are overdosing, what happens if they dont get any signs of systemic absorption?

Its not an exact science to say "hmm well they get brain fog and know to reduce the dose"

Again its important to note that you use at your own risk, and that no-one can say for definate that this drug is actually safe... even if in theory it appears to be so

Please do some research on anti-androgens. Preferably try one yourself and see how it works. You will notice systemic absorption. I don't understand why you have to point out that people are using RU58841 on their own risk, and no one can guarantee that this drug is safe. This is the case for all the medications we have. There is always a risk. There is no safe medication, but most of them can be used safely. Do you understand the difference? There is nothing which indicates that RU58841 can't be used safely, and you can ask any doctor you want; local treatment is always safer than systemic treatment.

 

[John979]

Keep in mind that finasteride works best at inhibiting the conversion of T to DHT in the prostate, not the scalp. Circulating DHT is reduced a bit and some scalp DHT is reduced but not enough to really be an effective treatment for those with aggressive hair loss.

Rgearding the topical application of finasteride, 80% is absorbed systemically, so don't assume a topical application is without side effects. This is my concern with RU. I don't know enough about its pharmacology just yet and tbh, CB seems safer.