Where Is The Female Red Pill Movement?

[redpilled]

"Duh, feminism!"

Modern feminism is a power grab. It's lobbying for even more female power. It's the very opposite of the male "red pill" movement that is a withdrawl from society. Where are women withdrawing from society? Where are their red pill complaints?

It leads me to believe that women really do have it good in modern society, even if they mask such prosperity behind feminist gripes. Women are fully enfranchised in society - in fact, celebrated by society. And if there's any ill befalling a woman, society is ready to pour forward an unlimited supply of sympathy in her direction. Being a feminist isn't a complaint about modern society - it's just lobbying for women to have even more power. Everything is on the side of the female (media, law, police, education, society), so I can see why they would want things to continue as they are. When a man says he's a "red pill" or "MGTOW", there's always a pushback from any woman who hears that. She tries to shame him in one way or another like he's "wrong" even though he's making a perfectly legal - even socially acceptable (as we surely are free to do our own thing) - choice. There's always a pushback by the winners of a system if there's a chance the system can be undermined by the disenfranchised.

Look at how bald men are ridiculed - baldness is something largely out of his control (the drugs don't work for many, and not everyone can afford a transplant), yet fat-shaming a woman is seen as a complete insult even though it's both unhealthy to be fat (so the shaming has a benefit to her) and utterly within her control. No, instead we must celebrate "large women".

I know this post might sound like a moan, but I want to be proven wrong. Show me where society really is unfair to women in a genuine way that truly impacts negatively on their life. Personally I don't see it, but maybe I've just not been looking hard enough. "Lookism" definitely affects men much more negatively than women. For a key biological reason (valuable eggs, cheap sperm), men are the pursuers of women. Men can have incredibly low standards as to how a woman looks, but a woman is mercenary in her conditions set for the man - he must be either very good looking or a good earner of preferably both - compared to her. Hypergamy is well established in the human species. 60% of guys will never father children - they're thrown on the biological scrapheap.

 

[redpilled]

Are you virgin and/or incel?

I'm 45, have had several relationships, am in one now. Having given a very brief summary of my dating life, I actually don't see that as relevant to this discussion. In fact, I live in a country where I'm considered a "good catch" based on arbitrary attributes (a rich, white guy living in Thailand on a big income and lots of savings). You seem to be insinuating that if you have any success with women, you are somehow blind to reality. OR, if you have no success with women, then your opinion is just "sour grapes" - validity be damned.

It's in my interest to not be blind to reality, and I believe it's in the interest of everyone (man or woman) to live life with their eyes open.

They are clearly underpaid even when adjusting for obvious factors like experience, type of jobs, hours worked etc.

Are we already onto the "wage gap"? Are you saying women are paid less in like-for-like jobs than men are? If so, then why don't employers just employ women only? In reality, there is no wage gap when comparing like-for-like jobs. Sure, if you want to aggregate earnings between men and women, there is a gap. It's not based on discrimination though (and there are laws in place across the western world protecting all people against pay discrimination) - it's based on the different choices men and women make, based on physiological differences between men and women, and their tendencies to pick particular types of work. At the end of it all though, the key question is "who's spending the money?".

If you're not a genetic train wreck or a total, disgusting failure there is someone out there for you.

My post wasn't about "hey if you can get a date, life's wonderful....if you can't, society calls you a loser and that's not fair" - it's more that women do not have genuine "gripes" that compare to the male red pill gripes. You picked one that is demonstrably false (the wage gap). Men really don't have a lot of sympathy or support in modern society. It doesn't matter how you look, it's men as a whole - though yes, an ugly man is the lowest on the totem pole (way lower than an ugly woman). But....even the "Chads" lose out to divorce and family courts. Men as a whole will die younger than a woman does by a good 5 years too.

 

[JohnsonDDG]

"Duh, feminism!"

Modern feminism is a power grab. It's lobbying for even more female power. It's the very opposite of the male "red pill" movement that is a withdrawl from society. Where are women withdrawing from society? Where are their red pill complaints?

It leads me to believe that women really do have it good in modern society, even if they mask such prosperity behind feminist gripes. Women are fully enfranchised in society - in fact, celebrated by society. And if there's any ill befalling a woman, society is ready to pour forward an unlimited supply of sympathy in her direction. Being a feminist isn't a complaint about modern society - it's just lobbying for women to have even more power. Everything is on the side of the female (media, law, police, education, society), so I can see why they would want things to continue as they are. When a man says he's a "red pill" or "MGTOW", there's always a pushback from any woman who hears that. She tries to shame him in one way or another like he's "wrong" even though he's making a perfectly legal - even socially acceptable (as we surely are free to do our own thing) - choice. There's always a pushback by the winners of a system if there's a chance the system can be undermined by the disenfranchised.

Look at how bald men are ridiculed - baldness is something largely out of his control (the drugs don't work for many, and not everyone can afford a transplant), yet fat-shaming a woman is seen as a complete insult even though it's both unhealthy to be fat (so the shaming has a benefit to her) and utterly within her control. No, instead we must celebrate "large women".

I know this post might sound like a moan, but I want to be proven wrong. Show me where society really is unfair to women in a genuine way that truly impacts negatively on their life. Personally I don't see it, but maybe I've just not been looking hard enough. "Lookism" definitely affects men much more negatively than women. For a key biological reason (valuable eggs, cheap sperm), men are the pursuers of women. Men can have incredibly low standards as to how a woman looks, but a woman is mercenary in her conditions set for the man - he must be either very good looking or a good earner of preferably both - compared to her. Hypergamy is well established in the human species. 60% of guys will never father children - they're thrown on the biological scrapheap.

There are some legit issues that women face:

-High levels of rape
-The majority of murdered women are killed by their husbands
-gender pay gap (but this is often explained due to maternity leave)
-women still expected to do the bulk of house work
-in papers and magazines women get body shamed every day (its starting to happen to men a little more though)
-shaming (we still call women who have sex w****s, whereas men are studs).



But please, do not get me wrong, there are many issues that men face:

-High suicide rates
-High incarceration rates
-High work mortality rates
-Estrangement from family and children in divorce
-unfair divorce settlements



Anyway, either list could go on, but the point is you don't have to be pro male rights or pro female rights - you can just be in favour of humans. Both men and women each face their own trials and tribulations in this life and while we can discuss who has it worse, we may as well discuss how we can make it better for one another.

 

[JeanLucBB]

You're basically just regurgitating red pill blogs here. What's your actual relationship experience? Are you virgin and/or incel?

Women are discriminated against in numerous arenas, For example, the workplace. They are clearly underpaid even when adjusting for obvious factors like experience, type of jobs, hours worked etc. They have a harder time getting taken seriously in a professional context. I've personally seen examples of this where it was clearly not warranted.

However, it's also clear that females in modern societies have numerous advantages as well, many of which are not broadly acknowledged in the mainstream. In the dating market they have a much easier time in their twenties/thirties and are less scrutinized for their appearance in a pass/fail manner like men are.

Thankfully, the world isn't as bleak as what the Cheetos-encrusted keyboard warriors of the manosphere would have you believe. If you're not a genetic train wreck or a total, disgusting failure there is someone out there for you. But it definitely isn't all roses either. I think anyone who's been on the "market" has felt at times how profoundly unfair the distribution of genetics is.

Yes, that must be why the major financial institutions in my country have diversity programs where they hire more female graduates to balance gender. Must be why I have worked at places from cafes to banks to Mcdonalds and management and HR have outright told me they hire attractive women even if they aren't qualified. Must be why there are substantially more scholarship opportunities for women. Must be why my manager told me their assistant was useless and he would fire her "but she's so f*****g attractive". Must be why in both Australia and the United States there are federal and state laws prohibiting pay gaps between gender and even in the United States there are less than a few hundred cases of women getting illegally paid less in the past decade.

Do you think that talking like a clueless, pathetic white night without a shred of facts or evidence will get your dick sucked or something? If this is a serious problem, why is this not demonstrated through legal action against it despite the fact that all major societies have strong state and federal legislation and common law against this? Why does the sjw analysis on the pay gap fail to take into account motherhood and maternity leave, and amount of women who have studied and qualified for certain high paying jobs?

There are legitimate issues and biases women face, but this isn't one of them, and its an idiotic disgrace to bring it up.

 

[pjhair]

Show me where society really is unfair to women in a genuine way that truly impacts negatively on their life. Personally I don't see it, but maybe I've just not been looking hard enough.

I can't believe that you live in Thailand and made that statement. You just have to look next door into India (or a bit further in Pakistan) to find societies where women are truly oppressed. The same is true for various other countries around the world. Feminism has a BIG role to play there. I wish there were more and stronger feminists in those countries.

I agree with a lot of your criticism when it comes to western feminists but you have to remember that majority of the female population in the world doesn't live in west.

 

[redpilled]

Lol the wage gap is not demonstrably false. I already said that even when adjusting for the factors you mention there is still a gap.

As I mentioned, the gap is based on aggregate earning differences between men and women, not like-for-like jobs. The distinction I am making here invalidates your point, because clearly you are stating the gap is somehow discrimination against women - when it's simply the aggregate choice differences between men and women that cause the gap. If one group of people choose types of jobs that typically pay less (regardless of your gender), that group can't complain they aren't getting paid as much as another group who choose jobs that pay more. Men tend to do more dangerous and demanding roles, women more service-orientated and part-time roles. It's not discrimination, it's choices.

As far as family court goes.. sign a prenup for gods sake. And not everyone ends up in a divorce. Some people have the empathy and social skills to work through relationship problems, and don't literally blame the breakdown of their marriage on an entire gender.

A prenup isn't some magic bullet. If you have kids, a prenup doesn't enforce a court order for a father to see his kids. It's very simplistic to just say "do a prenup, job done".

 

[JeanLucBB]

As I mentioned, the gap is based on aggregate earning differences between men and women, not like-for-like jobs. The distinction I am making here invalidates your point, because clearly you are stating the gap is somehow discrimination against women - when it's simply the aggregate choice differences between men and women that cause the gap. If one group of people choose types of jobs that typically pay less (regardless of your gender), that group can't complain they aren't getting paid as much as another group who choose jobs that pay more. Men tend to do more dangerous and demanding roles, women more service-orientated and part-time roles. It's not discrimination, it's choices.



A prenup isn't some magic bullet. If you have kids, a prenup doesn't enforce a court order for a father to see his kids. It's very simplistic to just say "do a prenup, job done".

Exactly, but Zircon, like all TRUE misogynists suffers from low expectations of women and doesn't care about their choices or personal responsibility.

Apparently for him women are too weak to live without affirmative action, and he won't be satisfied until women not only earn more on average than men, but work less hours, die less at work and work more appealing jobs.

 

[redpilled]

I can't believe that you live in Thailand and made that statement. You just have to look next door into India (or a bit further in Pakistan) to find societies where women are truly oppressed. The same is true for various other countries around the world. Feminism has a BIG role to play there. I wish there were more and stronger feminists in those countries.

I agree with a lot of your criticism when it comes to western feminists but you have to remember that majority of the female population in the world doesn't live in west.

I am talking about the west. That should be obvious, right? Your line of argument is as ridiculous as saying "it's wrong to say there's an obesity problem! People in Ethiopia aren't fat!" - come on....

 

[redpilled]

You knucklehead this is exactly what I'm saying. Even in like for like jobs they are still earning less.

Where's the evidence of this? I don't know a single western country that does NOT have anti-discrimination laws against such practices. All the "wage gap" data I read are always pointing to aggregate pay differences. Show me the data that like-for-like pay is different between men and women on a systemic level (anecdotes are useless here, yes I am sure some employers genuinely do this and get caught doing it, but the burden of proof that this is a systemic practice is on your shoulders).

 

[JeanLucBB]

Where's the evidence of this? I don't know a single western country that does NOT have anti-discrimination laws against such practices. All the "wage gap" data I read are always pointing to aggregate pay differences. Show me the data that like-for-like pay is different between men and women on a systemic level (anecdotes are useless here, yes I am sure some employers genuinely do this and get caught doing it, but the burden of proof that this is a systemic practice is on your shoulders).

Even at the anecdotal level it is highly unlikely, as there have been less than a hundred pay gap cases taken to court in the United States in the past decade.

 

[pjhair]

I am talking about the west. That should be obvious, right? Your line of argument is as ridiculous as saying "it's wrong to say there's an obesity problem! People in Ethiopia aren't fat!" - come on....

And just where did you say in your post that you are talking about western feminists? Nowhere. You trashed feminists in your post without actually specifying who you are speaking of. You do realize that feminism doesn't just exist in the west right? On top of that you live in Thailand. Do women in Thailand act like western women or draw inspiration from western feminists? IF NO, then your line of thought is precisely like living in Ethiopia and complaining about obesity.

 

[redpilled]

Even at the anecdotal level it is highly unlikely, as there have been less than a hundred pay gap cases taken to court in the United States in the past decade.

There was a famous one in the UK where Birmingham City Council were fined a whopping £757,000,000 for not paying bonuses to (mainly) female cooks, cleaners and care staff that (mainly) male binmen and street cleaners got. So this is not even a like-for-like discrimination and it didn't strictly affect only women. This case made the headlines 5 years ago in the UK. I ended up thinking....wow, the bill will be footed by council tax payers of Birmingham, and this isn't even a like-for-like job pay discrimination case, and £757M divided by 174 people (!) = £4,350,574.71 payout!

 

[Medina]

You should get paid for the money you bring in and your VALUE to the company.

Giving someone a job or suggesting they should lead a country based on their gender or skin colour is the foundation of hate and prejudice. It is utterly absurd to suggest that women are not equal in today's society, if anything they have it easier. Look at education stats. Look at gender quotas. Look at divorce rates. They have MORE freedom and opportunity than men do. It's not our problem if they are still struggling.

 

[redpilled]

And just where did you say in your post that you are talking about western feminists? Nowhere. You trashed feminists in your post without actually specifying who you are speaking of. You do realize that feminism doesn't just exist in the west right? On top of that you live in Thailand. Do women in Thailand act like western women or draw inspiration from western feminists? IF NO, then your line of thought is precisely like living in Ethiopia and complaining about obesity.

Honestly, this is a really weak argument. This forum's members largely hail from the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ in the main. I'm not Thai (as you might have guessed), I am from the UK and I just happen to live in Thailand (which is utterly irrelevant to most people's lives who contribute to this forum). The irony is - you said you agree with my points if we are talking about western feminism. I am, let's not muddy the waters by saying "well, someone in Djibouti is female and is oppressed, your argument is invalid".

 

[redpilled]

View attachment 56059

https://qz.com/860026/the-gender-pay-gap-in-every-job-sector-in-the-uk-charted/

Unfortunately the best data I've come across is from a source that would immediately give away my location.

Maybe if all else fails in my career I can start blogging about women being hypergamous sl*ts and lap up some patreon money from all the middle-aged divorced tards out there.

Is this the best "data" you have? A job sector is not comparing job A with job A, or position B with position B. Job sectors are full of different types of jobs, different ranks, different hours, part-time, full-time.

Show me evidence that women are paid less in like-for-like jobs. I've emboldened, italicised and underlined the key words here that are really important to establish discrimination has taken place. Sleight-of-hand statistics do not pass muster. A job sector is not a specific job or specific position.

 

[JeanLucBB]

View attachment 56059

Nice straw-man you pathetic, intellectually bankrupt cuck. Women call other women sl*ts just as often as men do, and comparing being called a sl*t to having your career opportunities weakened by major institutions who hire and parade that they hire substantially more women to balance their gender quota is blatant stupidity.

Does personal responsibility and choice of women mean nothing to you? Are all gender contrasts in your eyes due to the weakness of women and men repressing them? Women are smarter and more powerful than you think, it is disgusting how little respect for them you have. Apparently they can't achieve any progress without affirmative action to you

 

[Medina]

You either believe in a free country or you don't

If you want some people to have a helping hand over others, then that is by definition.... inequality.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Lol the people here really have no idea how wages are set in a corporation. It's like all you know are fixed pay scales in your shitty McDonald's job or public sector clerical position.

In a corporation it's cunning and aggression that determines your pay more than your actual "value", if there is even such a thing. In fact your value can be a very diffuse concept and hard to determine. Most women struggle to do this as effectively as men. There is also a "boys club" element involved where it's easier for men to form the sort of personal relationships needed to get a favorable outcome in salary negotiations.

I've seen a ton of guys who were way overpaid because they were good at playing the game, switching jobs at opportune moments etc.

"I've seen a ton of guys who were way overpaid because they were good at playing the game, "

Zircon strikes again. Apparently men are good at playing the game, but women are too stupid or unable in your eyes.

MUR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PLS FOR DA DUMB DUMB WOMEN!

 

[redpilled]

Lol the people here really have no idea how wages are set in a corporation. It's like all you know are fixed pay scales in your shitty McDonald's job or public sector clerical position.

In a corporation it's cunning and aggression that determines your pay more than your actual "value", if there is even such a thing. In fact your value can be a very diffuse concept and hard to determine. Most women struggle to do this as effectively as men. There is also a "boys club" element involved where it's easier for men to form the sort of personal relationships needed to get a favorable outcome in salary negotiations.

I've seen a ton of guys who were way overpaid because they were good at playing the game, switching jobs at opportune moments etc.

All of the above is strictly illegal according to my knowledge of anti-discrimination law in the UK at the very least. I'd be surprised if the laws allow such behaviour in other western countries, though I accept I have limited knowledge in that area.

In any case, if what you say is true, then there will be hundreds of thousands (millions?) of cases of discrimination taking place in like-for-like jobs where a woman is paid less than her male counterpart doing the very same role as her. And yet, these aren't pursued legally? And also, the employer doesn't care that he (she?) is breaking the law? Lawyers and solicitors would be over these like a rash...they smell a drop of blood ten miles away - yet only a handful of such cases are brought to court each year?

 

[pjhair]

Honestly, this is a really weak argument. This forum's members largely hail from the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ in the main. I'm not Thai (as you might have guessed), I am from the UK and I just happen to live in Thailand (which is utterly irrelevant to most people's lives who contribute to this forum). The irony is - you said you agree with my points if we are talking about western feminism. I am, let's not muddy the waters by saying "well, someone in Djibouti is female and is oppressed, your argument is invalid".

When you speak about a worldwide phenomenon like feminism and portray it's image that's only accurate when you look at a minority population in the world, you should be called out. There are feminists living in Muslim countries and fighting Islamist at a great danger to their lives. If you had only lived in the west, I probably would have not said anything. But you have lived in Thailand. You must know better. I just wanted you to be more precise and accurate in your criticism. Instead of admitting that you were not very precise when you attacked feminism and tried to paint it with a broad brush in your first post, you chose the strategy of attacking my argument and calling it "ridiculous" and "weak". I should have known better. Not everyone is going to be as precise and accurate as Afro_Vacancy when they lay their argument.