Whats the best topical DHT inihibitor for diffuse thinning
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JayMan said:
the beauty of a purely minoxidil regimen is you may grow a lot of hair and think it is working, but are guaranteed that the male pattern baldness is worsening even while you grow more hair. Read techprofessor's story. Even if you find a stimulant that grows hair, you don't know if it is stopping male pattern baldness or just giving you more hair that will disappear to placebo leveles later and eventually decline in 5 years even when you stay on it, like what happens on minoxidil. We know what happens on minoxidil because it was studied. We don't know what all this natural stuff will do.
Bryan said:
even if this is true, proxiphen only works where you apply it. It will not save your dense hair not yet touched by male pattern baldness until your hair is thin enough to spread the proxiphen on it. unless you put the liquid on your head. It is weaker, and you still will have trouble gettting your whole NW7 area. You got to choose where to put it, and your hair can thin a lot without looking thinner.
Propecia even helps your side hairs.
Dave001
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Old Baldy said:
The following is not directly related to your comment above.
I have seen two recent studies that evaluated various formulations of finasteride. Surprisingly, finasteride exhibited poor chemical stability. The degradation was thought to result largely from microbial growth in the first of the studies to which I allude. The vehicles were not adequately preserved; they showed visible evidence of contamination after only two weeks according to the authors.
However, the more recent of the studies also showed substantial degradation of finasteride beginning after only five weeks in the formulation without polymer additives (about 40% was lost by week 6). This was despite a formulation that would not have been expected to support microbial proliferation. It contained 22% w/w ethanol and 45% w/w eucalyptus oil, both of which have antimicrobial activity and are thought to act synergistically to improve chemical stability. The ethanol alone should be sufficient at that concentration. Furthermore, it contained only 10% water.
I cannot draw any definitive conclusions at this point, but I would err on the side of caution by preparing not more than 30 days worth at a time and/or keep the bulk of the unused portion refrigerated, provided that the physical stability of the vehicle is not compromised at the lower temperature.
Dblbass128 said:
While browsing this forum, I've become a little frustrated with people weighing into every single thread with "Get on finasteride, or you'll go bald." Then I go over to success stories, and see numerous people who have regrown hair without it. It seems like in a thread titled "what is the best topical DHT inhibitor for diffuse thinning," "GET ON finasteride OR GO BALD!" isn't really a useful response.
Personally, I'm an amatuer boxer, messing with my hormones is completely out of the question. I just ordered revivogen to at least try to accomplish something, my dermatologist said over the phone it's good for impairing DHT, and won't have any side effects. I'm going to take it until I can actually get into the derm later this month and see what other non-invasive treatments I can start on.
Cue "revivogen is crap, you need finasteride" post.
Dave001
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ceee said:
Why not use finasteride *topically* at a low concentration, instead? Its inhibitory effect on 5alpha-reductase is well characterized; the same cannot be said for the available alternatives such as linoleic acid and great tea extract.
The only published controlled human trial of topical finasteride in Androgenetic Alopecia was by Mazzarella et al. Topical finasteride in the treatment of androgenic alopecia. Preliminary evaluations after a 16-month therapy course. Journal of Dermatological Treatment (1997) 8, 189-192
Subjects applied twice daily one mL of a 0.005% solution of finasteride in a vehicle of 50% ethanol, 25% propylene glycol, and 25% water. Serum levels of the relevant hormones (total and free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone) were measured prior to treatment at baseline and every 3 months thereafter throughout the study; no changes were observed.
Without going into detail, a positive effect on Androgenetic Alopecia was seen in the treated group, while the control group experienced a decline in hair growth status.
The regimen above would cost you almost nothing (obtain the finasteride from overseas, generic Indian mfd.). To maximize success, combine with topical spironolactone (the combination approach may have synergy). Don't waste money on commercial topical formulations of either drug; prepare them yourself.
merck already patented it, but is not making it. Many patents are out there and not being used.
even if they were, I think monkeys make this stuff. (not the finasteride, some of the topicals). I know some research labs know a lot more about vehicles than I do, light years ahead, but many companies selling stuff are just throwing it in an old cream or alcohol. I think if we really research this stuff, we can make better vehicles. Could be wrong though. They might know their stuff. But still very over priced, considering all the people who say spironolactone is weak. probably the vehicle.
even if they were, I think monkeys make this stuff. (not the finasteride, some of the topicals). I know some research labs know a lot more about vehicles than I do, light years ahead, but many companies selling stuff are just throwing it in an old cream or alcohol. I think if we really research this stuff, we can make better vehicles. Could be wrong though. They might know their stuff. But still very over priced, considering all the people who say spironolactone is weak. probably the vehicle.
Dave001
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collegechemistrystudent said:
I have read a considerable amount of the research about vehicle formulation. The process of vehicle selection is still very much empirical, requiring diffusion experiments and human testing for every new formulation. If there is a known formulation that has proven successful, start from that. Otherwise, the best one can do is combine some basic principles along with knowledge of the compound's chemical and physical properties, experimental results from (for example) drug stability and diffusion studies, formulations from patents, and animal or preferably human trials of similar compounds.
BTW, in the case of topical spironolactone, the vehicle compositions from at least three successful human clinical trials have been published. Formulations can be found in
1) Berardesca, E., P. Gabba, et al. (1988). "Topical spironolactone inhibits dihydrotestosterone receptors in human sebaceous glands: an autoradiographic study in subjects with acne vulgaris." International Journal of Tissue Reactions 10(2): 115-9.
2) U.S. Patent 4,543,351 issued to Messina http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... er=4543351
3) The well-known Italian study on Androgenetic Alopecia
LookingGood!
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bolshy said:
SHOW US THE RESEARCH THAT IT ACTUALLY DID THAT????? I THINK THIS IS A GROSS exaggeration!
Dblbass128
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Old Baldy said:
That's it? Thats all I need to do?
Wow shouldnt we all be doing that?
Sounds good sh*t Ill give it a go and let you guys know what I think.
-DB
Old Baldy
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I say go for it DB.
Also, read what Dave001 posted closely:
Now if my math is correct (Dave has corrected me on my math many times - LOL) this would equate to 3mg of finasteride. in 60ml of solution? That's really a small amount. So my adding 3 to 6 pills of 5mg Proscar is overkill relative to that study. Anyway do the math and see if I'm correct because I've exhibited a propensity of doing the math incorrectly!!
Also, read what Dave001 posted closely:
Now if my math is correct (Dave has corrected me on my math many times - LOL) this would equate to 3mg of finasteride. in 60ml of solution? That's really a small amount. So my adding 3 to 6 pills of 5mg Proscar is overkill relative to that study. Anyway do the math and see if I'm correct because I've exhibited a propensity of doing the math incorrectly!!
Old Baldy
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Bryan said:Old Baldy said:
Jesus Christ, OB! Didn't you say once that you work for the IRS??
Bryan
Appeals, the numbers are already done for me! I review the law. But yes, I do have to have a basic understanding of numbers as in balance sheets, journal entries, debits and credits. As to specific calculations, the examiners and taxpayer's accountants do that. I deal mainly with lawyers.
I'm not really that bad with numbers but not an Einstein either!! There are times though that I must review the numbers to see if the "foundation" of an argument is correct in the first place.
My main concern with numbers on my job and the arguments flowing from those numbers is if they "balance". Oftentimes the exact amount is unimportant, however, the balancing is VERY important.
Here's an example of the type of calculation issue I might run across: A larger company made a proposal on an unagreed issue. I reviewed their calculaton and discovered a mistake in the net operating loss they were carrying back to a profit year.
The mistake cost the taxpayer roughly $3 million. However, my calculation was probably not exactly correct. The taxpayer was apparently satisfied that it was close enough and agreed.
(The mistake the taxpayer made was in the treatment of a certain type of expenditure included in the net operating loss. Statutorily, the taxpayer was treating that type of expenditure incorrectly. It wasn't a math error. That's an example of my job as it pertains to the math aspect.)
I simply don't get that involved with the exactness of mathematical calculations. Those types of issues are generally agreed to at the examination level. I RARELY see those types of issues. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing a purely mathematical issue.