Whats the best topical DHT inihibitor for diffuse thinning

[Bryan]

Does everyone agree that finasteride is (or dutasteride)the only solution, because thats not what I have been seeing from most of the posts in here.

I don't. I think a well-designed topical regimen could be AT LEAST as good as finasteride or dutasteride.

BTW, Dr. Proctor once said on alt.baldspot that Proxiphen is UNQUESTIONABLY more effective than Propecia alone. Do you really think he would make such a bold statement, if he didn't really believe it to be true? :wink:

Bryan

 

[Dblbass128]

Does everyone agree that finasteride is (or dutasteride)the only solution, because thats not what I have been seeing from most of the posts in here.

I don't. I think a well-designed topical regimen could be AT LEAST as good as finasteride or dutasteride.

BTW, Dr. Proctor once said on alt.baldspot that Proxiphen is UNQUESTIONABLY more effective than Propecia alone. Do you really think he would make such a bold statement, if he didn't really believe it to be true? :wink:

Bryan

Thank you Bryan, would this be the best solution for me, as a diuffuse thinner, got a good amount of hair, just noticing it getting thinner. I want to get whats right and stick with it. Too bad we cant get the stuff for less than a bill a month, I use minoxidil 5%, anything I can add to that to make it a DHT adversary?

sorry know youve been asked this crap for yrs but Im new to the fight

 

[Guest]

Does everyone agree that finasteride is (or dutasteride)the only solution, because thats not what I have been seeing from most of the posts in here.

I don't. I think a well-designed topical regimen could be AT LEAST as good as finasteride or dutasteride.

BTW, Dr. Proctor once said on alt.baldspot that Proxiphen is UNQUESTIONABLY more effective than Propecia alone. Do you really think he would make such a bold statement, if he didn't really believe it to be true? :wink:

Bryan

Bryan,

Well are you saying that Dr Lee really believes his bold statement that Xandrox blocks 98% of DHT? He is as respected as Dr Proctor is , but many people have continued to lose a lot of hair while on just Xandrox.

And Dblbass,

of course you can do whatever you want with your hair loss. But the easiest and cheapest solution is just to be on an oral DHT inhibitor. Proxiphen is a great product from what I hear, but no one can dispute that it is expensive. It's $100 a month, and even if you use half as much as he recommends that's $600 a year. Generic finasteride can be gotten online for under $100 for a year. That's right- you don't have to pay $700 a year to Merck for Propecia or $270 a year for Proscar. A year's supply of generic Indian Proscar is $80.

I know you're scared of the sides but they occur in so few people and I don't know why you'd be concerned about bodybuilding. Many bodybuilders get on finasteride to combat hair loss after using roids. Not saying you do but I don't think you have much to be concerned about that area. I think you at least owe it a try.

And if you are a diffuse thinner like I am, topicals are more difficult to apply because they have to cover a wider area.

 

[Dblbass128]

Does everyone agree that finasteride is (or dutasteride)the only solution, because thats not what I have been seeing from most of the posts in here.

I don't. I think a well-designed topical regimen could be AT LEAST as good as finasteride or dutasteride.

BTW, Dr. Proctor once said on alt.baldspot that Proxiphen is UNQUESTIONABLY more effective than Propecia alone. Do you really think he would make such a bold statement, if he didn't really believe it to be true? :wink:

Bryan

Bryan,

Well are you saying that Dr Lee really believes his bold statement that Xandrox blocks 98% of DHT? He is as respected as Dr Proctor is , but many people have continued to lose a lot of hair while on just Xandrox.

And Dblbass,

of course you can do whatever you want with your hair loss. But the easiest and cheapest solution is just to be on an oral DHT inhibitor. Proxiphen is a great product from what I hear, but no one can dispute that it is expensive. It's $100 a month, and even if you use half as much as he recommends that's $600 a year. Generic finasteride can be gotten online for under $100 for a year. That's right- you don't have to pay $700 a year to Merck for Propecia or $270 a year for Proscar. A year's supply of generic Indian Proscar is $80.

I know you're scared of the sides but they occur in so few people and I don't know why you'd be concerned about bodybuilding. Many bodybuilders get on finasteride to combat hair loss after using roids. Not saying you do but I don't think you have much to be concerned about that area. I think you at least owe it a try.

And if you are a diffuse thinner like I am, topicals are more difficult to apply because they have to cover a wider area.

yeh no roids, same sides as finasteride if you take enough roids. And I realize how convininet it could be for me to pop one pill a day, and its not just the sides I am worried about, but the long term effects of the medication. We dont know enough about some of these medications and what 10 yrs of use can do to the human body. As far as I am concerned, the FDA does protect us from idiots like the makers of procerin and other scam artist, but at the same time they work with the Pharm companies to sell drugs and make a killing, whether the drugs are harmful in the long run or not.
I mean the goal for me, is to be able to inhibit DHT in my scalp as best I can, while not interfering with my hormones internally, Ive been dthere before with anti depressants back in the day, or even when getting off andro, and its not fun.

 

[Guest]

i know it isn't but finasteride went through a rigorous 5 year study and it was proven safe. Bryan has said himself that he'd have no problem taking 10 mg of finasteride a day. All we're talking about 1 is Milligram a day here. And it reduces your risk of prostate cancer.

like i said you can do what you want but if you don't want to lose any more hair, i advise getting on finasteride.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

Well are you saying that Dr Lee really believes his bold statement that Xandrox blocks 98% of DHT? He is as respected as Dr Proctor is , but many people have continued to lose a lot of hair while on just Xandrox.

Hahah! I think Dr. Lee is a special case. I really do think that he's inner-tubing down a certain famous river in Egypt.

Bryan

 

[lordhair]

There was a thread on Hairlosshelp where they were talking about this product that's in development

http://www.androscience.com/product.htm

It will probably be a long way off though

 

[Guest]

Bryan,

Well are you saying that Dr Lee really believes his bold statement that Xandrox blocks 98% of DHT? He is as respected as Dr Proctor is , but many people have continued to lose a lot of hair while on just Xandrox.

Hahah! I think Dr. Lee is a special case. I really do think that he's inner-tubing down a certain famous river in Egypt.

Bryan

some people on hairlosshelp are using just xandrox and claim that it has stopped their hair loss and have experienced more regrowth than with just minoxidil, so maybe he is not wrong after all.

i hate telling people that azelaic acid is crap when although there is no evidence that supports its legitimacy, it has seemed to work for some people.

but i do think my point stands that bold statements do not always equal correct statements, even from respected doctors like proctor and lee.

 

[Dblbass128]

There was a thread on Hairlosshelp where they were talking about this product that's in development

http://www.androscience.com/product.htm

It will probably be a long way off though

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

And Jayman thanks for the info, I do appreciate it

-DB

 

[Old Baldy]

DB: Sounds good but who knows when it will come out and if it will really work?

You know, I emailed Dr. Proctor recently asking about spironolactone. vs. finasteride.

I asked why so many guys don't respond to spironolactone. but respond to finasteride.

He stated that overall spironolactone. works about the same as finasteride.

However, he added something I never thought of. He said maybe I should look at this scenario a different way, (i.e., that finasteride. works better than it should). Made sense, never thought of that.

I mean, if you look at how much spironolactone. blocks the AR's compared to finasteride. just blocking 5ARII, you'd think spironolactone. would be way better. Yet, it isn't.

Maybe blocking 5ARII, and maybe some 5ARI, creates a better response in men on average?

In his clinical practice, Dr. Proctor has noticed that, overall, spironolactone. can work. Some guys don't respond.

For me, once I read the new study indicating finasteride./dutasteride. probably do not cause high-grade prostate cancer and substantially reduce the chances of contracting cancer in the first place, I use them topically mixed in with spironolactone. in cream concoctions and mix them with minoxidil., etc.

In 2 months my hair looks healthier and more robust. Starting to see little vellus hairs in the crown where there was no hair before. Is it the dutasteride./finasteride.? I assume yes. Probably the dutasteride. because I used finasteride. orally for 11 months before quitting and did not get these little vellus hairs. But who knows, maybe it's..... well, I don't really know. Sorry.

But I still use spironolactone. because it halted my male pattern baldness. I've been using spironolactone. for about 1.3 years and it has definitely stopped my male pattern baldness from progressing. Little regrowth however. Well no, I did get some regrowth.

Added the finasteride./dutasteride. to hopefully get more and faster regrowth from the other stuff I'm using. So far, I'm getting a little excited. Time will tell.

 

[Dave001]

Jayman, I cannot believe that they are attacking you for giving them sound advice! I wonder why some people even ask for advice. People are worried about side effects when it happens to a max of what, 4% of people? That's 1/25 folks. And in almost all cases, the side effects stop after taking the medication

A recent, albeit much smaller trial than those financed by Merck, found a much higher incidence of adverse effects from oral finasteride.

Prasad, H., N. Khanna and R. Pandhi (2005). "A randomized double blind study of the effect of finasteride on hair growth in male patients of androgenetic alopecia." Indian Journal of Dermatology 50(3): 139-145.

http://tinyurl.com/kmqh2

"Ten (25%) of finasteride treated patients developed adverse effects (5-decreased libido as well as erectile dysfunction, 4-erectile dysfunction, 1-decreased libido). Finasteride in comparison to placebo was effective in promoting hair growth in male patients of Androgenetic Alopecia. However, the side effects to the drug were high in this study."

Sure you can get gyno, but it's usually noticed before it becomes a problem. I'm not sure what the chances are of getting into an automobile accident, but I'm thinking that a lot of you here probably shouldn't be driving vehicles, or walking for that matter.

I find it hard to believe that you're thinking.

If you don't want to take finasteride or dutasteride, don't take them, but they are your best shot at maintaining your hair. How many drugs does the FDA approve and then later recalls? Hardly any!

You sound like someone who wants to be protected from having to think for himself. The FDA is the reason you have so few choices. Further, a drug is only recalled if it poses life-threatening adverse effects, not for "merely" having an adverse effect on one's quality of life.

You do what you want, but I would try finasteride, and THEN if I get side effects, look for other things.

Some effects are not possible for an individual to precisely measure, much less ascribe to a specific cause. This is especially true of things such as libido, mental acuity, and mood.

 

[Dblbass128]

DB: Sounds good but who knows when it will come out and if it will really work?

You know, I emailed Dr. Proctor recently asking about spironolactone. vs. finasteride.

I asked why so many guys don't respond to spironolactone. but respond to finasteride.

He stated that overall spironolactone. works about the same as finasteride.

However, he added something I never thought of. He said maybe I should look at this scenario a different way, (i.e., that finasteride. works better than it should). Made sense, never thought of that.

I mean, if you look at how much spironolactone. blocks the AR's compared to finasteride. just blocking 5ARII, you'd think spironolactone. would be way better. Yet, it isn't.

Maybe blocking 5ARII, and maybe some 5ARI, creates a better response in men on average?

In his clinical practice, Dr. Proctor has noticed that, overall, spironolactone. can work. Some guys don't respond.

For me, once I read the new study indicating finasteride./dutasteride. probably do not cause high-grade prostate cancer and substantially reduce the chances of contracting cancer in the first place, I use them topically mixed in with spironolactone. in cream concoctions and mix them with minoxidil., etc.

In 2 months my hair looks healthier and more robust. Starting to see little vellus hairs in the crown where there was no hair before. Is it the dutasteride./finasteride.? I assume yes. Probably the dutasteride. because I used finasteride. orally for 11 months before quitting and did not get these little vellus hairs. But who knows, maybe it's..... well, I don't really know. Sorry.

But I still use spironolactone. because it halted my male pattern baldness. I've been using spironolactone. for about 1.3 years and it has definitely stopped my male pattern baldness from progressing. Little regrowth however. Well no, I did get some regrowth.

Added the finasteride./dutasteride. to hopefully get more and faster regrowth from the other stuff I'm using. So far, I'm getting a little excited. Time will tell.

Dood that is awesome to hear!

Could I mix finasteride with my minoxidil? If so could you tell me how I should be doing so? Im not much of a chemist so I need some babysitting on these issues. I dont htink Im a candidate for spironolactone as I am a diffue thinner and it would make a hell of a mess. So I just need to find something that works for me, I dont mind the topicals they do not incovinience me at all.

Thanks in advance

-DB

 

[Dblbass128]

Jayman, I cannot believe that they are attacking you for giving them sound advice! I wonder why some people even ask for advice. People are worried about side effects when it happens to a max of what, 4% of people? That's 1/25 folks. And in almost all cases, the side effects stop after taking the medication

A recent, albeit much smaller trial than those financed by Merck, found a much higher incidence of adverse effects from oral finasteride.

Prasad, H., N. Khanna and R. Pandhi (2005). "A randomized double blind study of the effect of finasteride on hair growth in male patients of androgenetic alopecia." Indian Journal of Dermatology 50(3): 139-145.

http://tinyurl.com/kmqh2

"Ten (25%) of finasteride treated patients developed adverse effects (5-decreased libido as well as erectile dysfunction, 4-erectile dysfunction, 1-decreased libido). Finasteride in comparison to placebo was effective in promoting hair growth in male patients of Androgenetic Alopecia. However, the side effects to the drug were high in this study."

[quote="TAINTED-MEAT":962ac]Sure you can get gyno, but it's usually noticed before it becomes a problem. I'm not sure what the chances are of getting into an automobile accident, but I'm thinking that a lot of you here probably shouldn't be driving vehicles, or walking for that matter.

I find it hard to believe that you're thinking.

If you don't want to take finasteride or dutasteride, don't take them, but they are your best shot at maintaining your hair. How many drugs does the FDA approve and then later recalls? Hardly any!

You sound like someone who wants to be protected from having to think for himself. The FDA is the reason you have so few choices. Further, a drug is only recalled if it poses life-threatening adverse effects, not for "merely" having an adverse effect on one's quality of life.

You do what you want, but I would try finasteride, and THEN if I get side effects, look for other things.

Some effects are not possible for an individual to precisely measure, much less ascribe to a specific cause. This is especially true of things such as libido, mental acuity, and mood.[/quote:962ac]

There is mega debate about the FDA, Ive done much research on it and I do know that any 'cures' that would send certain pharm companies out of business are a major threat. Its common sense, and they are a very [powerful organization. I also think they can do some good at inhibiting scam companies from robbing desperate consumers. If only they were 100% perfect and did their job without worrying about the lobbyist, we would all be better off. I agree with you, but I also see where Jayman is coming from with the FDA only proving a few products, considering these scam companies that are robbing us blind. Its like my stance on the whole heartburn scenario millions of americans are suffering from, create a 'disease' called acid reflux disease, and boom you have a patten for a drug. They tell you acid reflux is caused by acidic foods, yet when I get heartburn (after eating overlly processed, non organic foods) I drink a tablespoon of cider vinegar (5% acid) and my heartburn is gone in 2 minutes....hello FDA, can you explain this one to me? Take this acid reflux pill for the resot of your life, health costs sky rocket and your body is damaged more from reducing the acid/enzymes needed to digest the garbage you ate a few hours ago.

 

[CCS]

judging by how many good products are not FDA approved, I would not just rely on FDA. Some side effects might not be noticeable, but they could be good or bad, and the same goes for natural treatments, and we will go bald if we don't do something. I'm seeing nothing on dutasteride, except I'm not going bald, and my hair did get darker on finasteride, and it does not seem to be getting lighter. If 25% get side effects, then I still think it worth finding out if you're one of the 75%.

It just pisses me off so many scam companies sell avocore when that money could go to doing some net research and making a better product, or even doing some invitro studies.

 

[Old Baldy]

DB: Just crush 3 to 6 Proscar tablets into a bottle of minoxidil. Shake the bottle now and then. It's that easy! I ain't no chemist for Godsakes!

Same for dutasteride. gelcaps. Poke them with a pin and squeeze the stuff in a bottle of minoxidil. Put the excess left on your fingers onto a bald spot.

 

[CCS]

Good advice, OB. I can vouch that crushing finasteride tablets is a pain in the butt, and you won't crush it all. Let the electric forces work on it for a few days. The electric force of molecules is several several (double intended) orders of magnitude stronger than the force of gravity.

 

[Dave001]

DB: Just crush 3 to 6 Proscar tablets into a bottle of minoxidil. Shake the bottle now and then. It's that easy! I ain't no chemist for Godsakes!

Same for dutasteride. gelcaps. Poke them with a pin and squeeze the stuff in a bottle of minoxidil. Put the excess left on your fingers onto a bald spot.

Just drop them in (intact). That's it; you're done.

 

[CCS]

the less you do, the longer you have to wait.

don't use it until there is a fine powder at the bottom.

 

[Old Baldy]

DB: Just crush 3 to 6 Proscar tablets into a bottle of minoxidil. Shake the bottle now and then. It's that easy! I ain't no chemist for Godsakes!

Same for dutasteride. gelcaps. Poke them with a pin and squeeze the stuff in a bottle of minoxidil. Put the excess left on your fingers onto a bald spot.

Just drop them in (intact). That's it; you're done.

Can you drop the dutasteride. gelcaps intact?

 

[CCS]

if you don't mind a little gelliten in your hair. Bryan does not mind spironolactone filler powder on his head. I prefer a clear solution or clear cream that no one can see.