What do I start off with?

[KT36]

I JUST heard of a guy named Dr. LEE and the stuff called "spironolactone". I contacted him through his site and had an email 'consult' where I filled out a form.

he said I can try Minoxidil, spironolactone, Propecia in combination.

I understand now there are Anti Androgens vs. growth stimulants. Got that part.

I don't want to take Propecia..

I don't mind the topical stuff. I've tried Revivogen shampoo and topical before but wasn't that disciplined with it, but the little I did I saw/felt some improvement.

So I was thinking Revivogen, mixed with spironolactone to start off with.

I would of stated the other product I take but I JUST found out the hard way that it's frowned upon here so I won't talk about it.

I have overall thinning and not much recession. My hair loss started out aggressive in my 20s and settled down in my 30s. I don't know if it's because I'm overall healthier or what. I did a lot of prescrip drugs in my 20s and was into some bad stuff/lifestyle.

Plus I smoke very rarely now and I heard smoking effects hair loss more than we think.

Anyway, if someone could share there experience with spironolactone mainly that would be cool. And if it can be balanced out with the Revivogen nightly topical...which I suspect is okay.

Thanks

Forgot to add that if anyone has experience with "Doctor Lee" please let me know. I live near him and wanted a personal consult rather than email.

 

[kthxbi]

rule of thumb is pretty much take propecia if you want to keep your hair. some people have apparently had success with spironolactone but i personally can't remember having seen anything definitive. dutasteride is just a scarier finasteride and finasteride is, well, finasteride's the big daddy of hair loss treatments at the moment. whatever you do, start off with one treatment and use that on it's own for a period of time before you start anything else, so you can measure which treatments are helping and which ones are hurting.

but i'd say take the plunge and go for finasteride, to be honest. if you're in america, call into thebaldtruth when it's on air sometime, spencer's a good guy and he'll give you good advice.

 

[KT36]

Well Propecia or any "finasteride" is out of the question for me at this point...

But thanks for the input.

 

[cuebald]

then have you checked out the hairpiece forum?

 

[KT36]

then have you checked out the hairpiece forum?

Then you would be #2 so far saying basically "it's finasteride or go home"

Since I said, that finasteride is out of the question, and since you say it's the only way, then I guess I have no business even talking about hairloss and should pack my bags and hit the road?

If finasteride is the only real solution than why are there so many products spoken of here as part of Regimens? Are the people here fooling themselves? Or do these 'other' products only work in conjunction with finasteride?

Please explain.

 

[Nene]

then have you checked out the hairpiece forum?

Then you would be #2 so far saying basically "it's finasteride or go home"

Since I said, that finasteride is out of the question, and since you say it's the only way, then I guess I have no business even talking about hairloss and should pack my bags and hit the road?

If finasteride is the only real solution than why are there so many products spoken of here as part of Regimens? Are the people here fooling themselves? Or do these 'other' products only work in conjunction with finasteride?

Please explain.

You can use other treatments but they are not a long term solution. They might help for now but in the long run, w/o finasteride you will end up bald.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Well Propecia or any "finasteride" is out of the question for me at this point...

But thanks for the input.

Is there a reason finasteride is out of the question?

 

[cuebald]

mate, if you don't use any kind of DHT inhibitor, then your hair will continue to miniaturise and fall out behind the "thickening" effect of say minoxidil. The treatment regimens are usually finasteride to stop any more decay, minoxidil to help thicken, and then things like Copper Peptides, etc, to help the other treatments work on the scalp/for general scalp health/extra thickening. I am interested in the Bimatoprost type experiments - after all, it grows eyelash hair, it might work on the scalp too! (but even this without finasteride/dutasteride/etc would still result in your hair thinning out anyway).

If I were you I would maybe try Topical Finasteride (basically Finasteride in a liquid/cream you put on your scalp rather than taking the pill internally). The reasoning behind Topical finasteride is that it is meant to work on the follicles when it is absorbed into the scalp, without resulting in other side effects. Nobody knows if Topical finasteride actually works; I myself have never tried it.
This is basically the same effect spironolactone has; only Spironolactone is a general anti-androgen while finasteride specifically reduces DHT. (you can also take Spironolactone internally like you can finasteride, but it is not recommended due to sides; in Medicine I don't think spironolactone is ever prescribed for males.)

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

There is seriously no good reason not to TRY finasteride and see how it works for you. If you have no side effects (chances are in your favor) then you'll probably save your hair. If you do you have side effects (a minority) then you can start looking at harder to use and usually not as effective alternatives.

 

[cuebald]

Thing is now if he tries finasteride I can guarantee he will get "sides", even if they are all in his head. People like him always do; they'll read PropeciaHelp, sh*t themselves, muster up the courage to take 1 pill, and then they will think their penis has gone necrotic and their breasts have increased 2 cup sizes an hour later. They will worry so much the next time they get an erection they will give themselves "performance anxiety", then they will be convinced that the drug is poison.

I would say good luck with the topicals, why not take some pictures to see if they do/do not work? Maybe then the fellas at propeciahelp might have something other than hats and wigs to try

 

[kthxbi]

then have you checked out the hairpiece forum?

Then you would be #2 so far saying basically "it's finasteride or go home"

Since I said, that finasteride is out of the question, and since you say it's the only way, then I guess I have no business even talking about hairloss and should pack my bags and hit the road?

If finasteride is the only real solution than why are there so many products spoken of here as part of Regimens? Are the people here fooling themselves? Or do these 'other' products only work in conjunction with finasteride?

Please explain.

it's been said before but i'll just add it in again. finasteride might not have the most impressive results with a lot of people but it's the foundation to your hairloss treatment. ever heard the story about the guy who made a castle built on sand?yeah, that's what using a growth stimulant without a dht inhibitor is like. sh*t, if you turn into a leper or something after 3 months of finasteride then burn it to the ground and run for the hills but it's worth a TRY man, if you're serious about wanting to keep your hair. i'm only 3 weeks in, sure, but i've had absolutely 0 side effects since beginning finasteride. in fact, since starting finasteride i've gotten with two girls, which is - well, a lot better than i did in the WHOLE 2010. so on that evidence, we can gather that finasteride actually attracts females...

time to start popping 10mg a day i think

 

[KT36]

then have you checked out the hairpiece forum?

in fact, since starting finasteride i've gotten with two girls, which is - well, a lot better than i did in the WHOLE 2010. so on that evidence, we can gather that finasteride actually attracts females...

time to start popping 10mg a day i think

What the???

Dude, if you think that getting "girls" has to do with your looks or the amount of finasteride you're taking, something is definitely wrong with the logic.

Women aren't attracted to your hair.

I date more than the average man my age and it has nothing to do with my looks (see my photos). In fact I have confidence no matter what my hair does. Women respond to confidence and social cues way more than 'hair'.

And the fact you're selling point is that you did better with 'girls' since being on finasteride for a few weeks is really scary if you represent the majority of thinking here...which I hope to God you don't.

I think you need to grow up a little.

 

[KT36]

While Finasteride may be the most effective treatment that is readily available and convenient it is not the only one that can save your hair. Since you're OK with topicals you could use RU55841 or CB-03-01. These guys who are telling you that Finasteride is the only way, aren't telling you the whole story. When it comes to conventional treatments the're right, but you have to think outside the box! I made a guide to all of the hair loss meds that work, you can see it here- viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63313

thanks for the info I am looking into new things daily now.

 

[KT36]

Thing is now if he tries finasteride I can guarantee he will get "sides", even if they are all in his head. People like him always do; they'll read PropeciaHelp, sh*t themselves, muster up the courage to take 1 pill, and then they will think their penis has gone necrotic and their breasts have increased 2 cup sizes an hour later. They will worry so much the next time they get an erection they will give themselves "performance anxiety", then they will be convinced that the drug is poison.

I would say good luck with the topicals, why not take some pictures to see if they do/do not work? Maybe then the fellas at propeciahelp might have something other than hats and wigs to try

Actually yes, I will NOT consider using oral finasteride because ONE of the reasons is the reports across the web on permanent side effects. The "Propeciahelp" forum being only ONE of those sources.

I'm very active sexually and value my lifestyle. I enjoy women too much to risk my sex life.

You think they're full of sh*t on the forum? Okay, maybe a few of them are having some psychosomatic reaction and they're reports are not accurate because they're anxiety is halting their erections.

And let's say there is loss of feeling for only 1% of users.

Well let's see... OUT of one million that would equal 10,000 users.

I'm not ready to gamble my sex life on those numbers. And the fact the prescription medicines wreak havoc on your body, have grossly under reported side effects through profit and hide negative results through massive lobbying or self funded "research"....I'm not keen on playing that game.

And also, I think it's a shame how you would wholesale insult people who are reporting REAL SYSTEMS like functional loss of sex drive. How do YOU know they're having a psychosomatic reaction only? What expertise do YOU have? What studies of the men on that forum have YOU conducted?

And what if you happened to be one of the poor souls that this hits? What then?

I'm sorry but as someone who thoroughly enjoys women, that would a damn NIGHTMARE for me.

Have a little more compassion for people you DON'T KNOW.

I'll tell you a little story about 'drugs' while I'm at it. I had severe back pain for years after an injury. I was put on so many drugs they damaged a part of my brain that regulates sleep, so I have permanent myoclonus while falling asleep. (I choke and my tongue rolls around in my mouth). Thank god it's only for a 20 minute window.

I also had twitches for about 6 months after I tapered off the Anti Depressants they put me on while I was coping with chronic pain. This was 3 years ago and thank God I'm off that crap and pain free for 2 years.

So one drug had me jerking uncontrollably for 6 months, and another damaged the sleep center of my brain permanently (at least 6 years running now and not stopping)

So yeah, I'm a little gun shy about popping pills....again this is MY life, not yours, my experience, NOT yours. Your skepticism doesn't dictate my reality and your overall lack of compassion for and arrogance about people suffering isn't cool.


Otherwise thank you for all the input.

 

[kthxbi]

rabble rabble rabble

was a joke dude. as in ha ha? didn't think anyone would take a logic that skewed seriously...

 

[follicle84]

Might be worth taking minoxidil if your looking for a cosmetic improvement to your hair. It wont stop hairloss at the heart of the cause but it should improve the outlook of your hair by thickening them existing hairs. spironolactone would be a great addition that could perhaps deal with the dht side of things. Not sure about revigen though. Is sounds good in theory but i havent heard any success stories with anyone using it.

 

[cuebald]

The worst meds I took were the opiate based ones when I smashed my arm up. I took one called Tra m a dol (you are not allowed to say it on these forums) and when coming off that I was dizzy and very nauseous (e.g. waking up and vomiting 5 minutes later for about 2 weeks), same with the dihydrocodeine etc tablets. They don't mention much about coming off the tablets but when I did I couldn't sleep for about a week and I could only really eat porridge/milk. (I find out later you are supposed to taper off of them).
I have never heard of permanent side effects from pain meds apart from the barbs. Were you on barbs? (and that has been known about since the 60's)

Anti-depressants (amitryptiline) gave me much more sexual side effects than finasteride ever has. The higher dose made me less "interested" in sex in general.

Finasteride has been a doddle, tbh. if I woke up on a random day with no memory, I wouldn't be able to tell you if I was on finasteride or not (well, I could count the hairs on my pillow I suppose)

I'm not saying everyone on that board is full of sh*t, but some certainly are.

There was a finasteride video on Youtube and I posted a what I thought was a fair description of the drugs effects on me (it read "been on it x months, no sides as of yet, shedding stopped, mild regrowth but not much") then I had all of the Propeciahelp squad modding my comment down, PMing me calling me a Merck shill (??), posting on other videos claiming I was a Merck shill, and one user then cloned my Youtube account name but using an I instead of an l, posting that I was infact a Merck shill. That was the first thing I'd ever posted about finasteride and all my other videos were about politics. Someone on that board is obviously damaged goods, and if they are that paranoid about me being a supposed shill, they are probably overly paranoid about the drug itself too.

I still think you shouldn't take it though, I mean your mind is made up and I respect that. I know people that loathe taking tablets even if it is as simple as a paracetamol (which again, it's their lives).
I am just saying don't expect miracles when it comes to hair without it. Try the Topicals, I'd probably go for topical finasteride and spironolactone, then keep an eye on the shedding. You should get increased shedding for a month or two then it should die down. If nothing changes then chances are the treatments aren't doing much.

 

[KT36]

The drugs I was on were close to your.

Some start with the word "hydro"...others with the word "oxy"...

My point was that many prescrip meds have under studied effects and damage people permanently..I'm proof..

There have been MANY recalls of drugs which pass FDA guidelines and 'research' but are known to be severe toxins....

Just because something has the 'authority' of the FDA doesn't mean it's good for us..and many times it's not.

I'm a guy that believes in natural health, admittedly. I'm 36 and stronger and faster than guys 15 years younger, I eat all organic, no fast food, no junk, no processed stuff. Not boasting, just explaining where I come from.

Not a "hippie" in any sense though.

And yes I believe in the value of peer reviewed material and studies. And many times 'natural cures' are pure crap.

I just think that finasteride is one of those drugs that is not up my alley. Especially because I'm a very sexual person and I already have an over amount of testosterone from birth and very much "alpha" in that way.

I say that because I believe hormones have a lot to do with it. Like I said in another thread. I was on Saw Palmetto and the stuff had me raging angry like I could explode and kick everyones *** if I was having a bad day.

I don't do well with many foreign things entering my body. Vitamins, alcohol(massive amounts), cigarettes, aspirin, and the occasional Ibuprofen is all I can do.

Anything else from a PHARMA company either doesn't work or seems to attack me.

This is why I can only trust topicals, because I can't go down an unknown road again.

 

[KT36]

rabble rabble rabble

was a joke dude. as in ha ha? didn't think anyone would take a logic that skewed seriously...

Sorry,

There are people on the net that would SERIOUSLY use that logic. I've met plenty. We're all strangers in this anonymous format.

 

[KT36]

Might be worth taking minoxidil if your looking for a cosmetic improvement to your hair. It wont stop hairloss at the heart of the cause but it should improve the outlook of your hair by thickening them existing hairs. spironolactone would be a great addition that could perhaps deal with the dht side of things. Not sure about revigen though. Is sounds good in theory but i havent heard any success stories with anyone using it.

Yeah, I've read 'testimonials" about Revivogen, seen a few screen shots, etc. But it's sold here at this site so I thought it couldn't be complete BS. And when I tried it before it seems to keep my hair healthier and a little thicker.

DR. LEE sells this "growth shampoo" maybe I should have ordered that instead.

I'm narrowing it down to minoxidil and spironolactone or Dr LEES Xandrox .

I'm kinda waiting for more news on CB-03-01 and RU55841 for anti androgen.

We may soon be on the verge of a super anti-andro and regrowth factor in one, or two step solution.

My goal is just on keeping what I have since I have hairs on my head all over and not really too much "bald" spots, just thinning. I figure all hope is not lost since there are still hairs there.

I may be an Norwood 6 or 7 but it's very slow progression over years and I'm not "skin" bald and recession isn't my deal that much. My photos make it look 'bald' but the camera doesn't pick up fine hair that great.

Is that known as 'diffuse thinning"? I dunno