weight problem
- Thread starter jdr_333
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metalheaddude
Senior Member
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yeah man alot of people have. Its got to do with raised estrogen levels or some s-hit. Its the same reason u get tits on finasteride. But yeah I gotta work my *** off in the gym ALOT more than the average guy to retain my muscle mass and to have a good lean ripped body, but its worth it if I can maintain my hair.
ive actually lost 10 lbs since starting finasteride. i think its in everyones head a lot of side effects they get, maybe I havent gained 10 lbs because ive also busted my *** in gym 6 days a week who knows, but im sure if finasteride does affect body weight its very minimal.
The big PLESS (Proscar Long-term Efficacy and Safety Study) looked at finasteride's effect on BMI (at 5mg/day, in the usual study group of older men with BPH) .
"The larger testosterone increases seen in finasteride-treated patients in the lower baseline testosterone tertiles were associated with significant mean reductions relative to placebo at year 4 in body mass index (BMI), ranging from 0.6 to 0.8 kg/m2. No statistically significant between-group difference was found in BMI in the upper testosterone tertile."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum
"The larger testosterone increases seen in finasteride-treated patients in the lower baseline testosterone tertiles were associated with significant mean reductions relative to placebo at year 4 in body mass index (BMI), ranging from 0.6 to 0.8 kg/m2. No statistically significant between-group difference was found in BMI in the upper testosterone tertile."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum
joseph49853
Experienced Member
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Pondle did you ever watch that PBS documentary that was linked here, Dangerous Prescription?
BTW, I too found it easier to gain weight on finasteride. I can't remember the exact details now, being as it was so long ago, though it's probably documented somewhere on the site. But I immediately went from my normal bodyweight (of almost a decade) to 10-15 lbs. higher in a span of 6-12 months. I've always had a super-high metabolism, so it was a little strange. I also gained far more strength and endurance during exercising.
The second year, I started developing higher body fat, my features feminized slightly, including signs of gynecomastia. Getting bloodwork back from the doctor pretty much sealed the deal. Today, I have far more hair without finasteride and with other alternatives, and feel very fortunate.
BTW, I too found it easier to gain weight on finasteride. I can't remember the exact details now, being as it was so long ago, though it's probably documented somewhere on the site. But I immediately went from my normal bodyweight (of almost a decade) to 10-15 lbs. higher in a span of 6-12 months. I've always had a super-high metabolism, so it was a little strange. I also gained far more strength and endurance during exercising.
The second year, I started developing higher body fat, my features feminized slightly, including signs of gynecomastia. Getting bloodwork back from the doctor pretty much sealed the deal. Today, I have far more hair without finasteride and with other alternatives, and feel very fortunate.
metalheaddude
Senior Member
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Pondle said:
Well im not nesscessarily disputing whether people get fatter on Finasteride, I just think from my own personal experience its been harder for me to lose weight and gain lean muscle mass.
which is strange, as dht is not the dominant androgen when it comes to muscle building. i remember reading skeletal muscle contains very little 5-ar, so that testosterone isn't converted to dht, and that dht is deactivated there by some enzyme whose name i don't remember. anyways, the end result is that testosterone is by far more important.
not sure how inhibition of 5-ar type 2 effects other parts of your body though. might have an impact on the central nervous system, but i thought that was primarily influenced by 5-ar type 1.
anyways, reading fitness and bodybuilding forums, there seems there are quite a few anecdotal reports that finasteride use has lead to loss of muscle strength. not sure if this is true or even possible though, but who knows...
not sure how inhibition of 5-ar type 2 effects other parts of your body though. might have an impact on the central nervous system, but i thought that was primarily influenced by 5-ar type 1.
anyways, reading fitness and bodybuilding forums, there seems there are quite a few anecdotal reports that finasteride use has lead to loss of muscle strength. not sure if this is true or even possible though, but who knows...
stax
Experienced Member
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The increased estrogen caused by finasteride, combined with the lowered DHT caused by finasteride ( DHT is a estrogen antagonist and has anti-estrogen properties ), CAN cause some weight gain problems despite not changing your diet or lifestyle.
How?
Exess estrogen not only reduces testosterone over time, but it competes with thyroid hormone, so your metabolism slows down.
Do some research on it.
This is why much more woman have hypothyroid than men, their exess estrogen binding with thyroid hormone, hindering its output.
How?
Exess estrogen not only reduces testosterone over time, but it competes with thyroid hormone, so your metabolism slows down.
Do some research on it.
This is why much more woman have hypothyroid than men, their exess estrogen binding with thyroid hormone, hindering its output.
stax
Experienced Member
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I want to add that when i took avodart my forams became bigger, like popeye's, and i was gaining some muscle very easily despite not changing anything.
So my thyroid must have been slowed down in order for me to gain muscle, and the testosterone prevented me from gaining any fat.
I think that high levels of testosterone can possibly slow down the thyroid aswell, as it allows you to build muscle instead of burning too many calories not allowing muscle gain, but in my case atleast testosterone prevents any fat gain. I was using AIMF though to reduce estrogen aswell.
I think thats the reason my face was getting puffy, due to lowered thyroid function.
So my thyroid must have been slowed down in order for me to gain muscle, and the testosterone prevented me from gaining any fat.
I think that high levels of testosterone can possibly slow down the thyroid aswell, as it allows you to build muscle instead of burning too many calories not allowing muscle gain, but in my case atleast testosterone prevents any fat gain. I was using AIMF though to reduce estrogen aswell.
I think thats the reason my face was getting puffy, due to lowered thyroid function.
joseph49853
Experienced Member
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stax
Experienced Member
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Were talking FREE TESOSTERONE, total testosteroen doesnt really matter.
Total is a useless test its the FREE unbound or BIO AVAILABLE TESTOSTERONE that matters.
Thats why Doctors give older guys the Bioavailable Testosterone Test, when they have symptoms of low Testosterone.
I would love too see them test that.
WHY DONT YOU TAKE A SECOND AND READ THE FACTS, STUPID!
IM TALKING TO YOU PONDLE, YOU DOUCHEBAG!
http://thetlab.com/excess-estrogens
http://www.testosterone-hgh-therapy.com ... erapy.html
http://www.drmostovoy.com/Decline_of_Masculinity.htm
AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE FACTS SAID SO, NOT MERCK.
Total is a useless test its the FREE unbound or BIO AVAILABLE TESTOSTERONE that matters.
Thats why Doctors give older guys the Bioavailable Testosterone Test, when they have symptoms of low Testosterone.
I would love too see them test that.
WHY DONT YOU TAKE A SECOND AND READ THE FACTS, STUPID!
IM TALKING TO YOU PONDLE, YOU DOUCHEBAG!
http://thetlab.com/excess-estrogens
http://www.testosterone-hgh-therapy.com ... erapy.html
http://www.drmostovoy.com/Decline_of_Masculinity.htm
AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE FACTS SAID SO, NOT MERCK.
stax
Experienced Member
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Here's another one for you Pondle, aka the Merck salesman.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... adid=74027
I SUGGEST YOU PEOPLE READ THIS THREAD, BECAUSE DESPITE WHAT THE NON FACTS MERCK LISTS IN THEIR "PRODUCT MONOGRAPH", AS PONDLE AKA THE MERCK SALESMAN LIKES TO PUT IT, STUFF LIKE THIS CAN HAPPEN.
Can this information be found on the Proscar "Product Monograph"?
YOU STUPID MORON!
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... adid=74027
I SUGGEST YOU PEOPLE READ THIS THREAD, BECAUSE DESPITE WHAT THE NON FACTS MERCK LISTS IN THEIR "PRODUCT MONOGRAPH", AS PONDLE AKA THE MERCK SALESMAN LIKES TO PUT IT, STUFF LIKE THIS CAN HAPPEN.
Can this information be found on the Proscar "Product Monograph"?
YOU STUPID MORON!
muaythai187
Established Member
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I certainly gain weight ever since I have taken finasteride and have to agree that finasteride slows down your metabolism. I workout 7 days a week and eat a healthy diet. Over the 5 months I have taken finasteride, I have gain 7 pounds and gain some extra fat tissue on my pecs making my nipples puffy. It seems like I have to workout ten times harder when I'm on finasteride and I would wake up feeling tired, looking flabby, and other minimal problems. So I went to get my blood test 7 days ago with my doctor and he informed me that the blood studies come back showing the testosterone is way down since my last physical. As a professional athlethe keeping in shape is very important to me so as much I love keeping my hair I decided to stop propecia . Well I have to say this ever since I stop propecia I feel so much better and feel more energetic .Oh also I never notice how much it feels better to have sex after quitting finasteride since my libido came back , espcecially if its only a couple of seconds. Hopefully they will create something new for hairloss in the future before all my hair falls out.
stax
Experienced Member
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THANK YOU muaythai187, for posting your experience.
BTW ive had similar experiences as you, as MANY others have aswell.
Good idea getting your blood work.
How do ya like that one Pondle? Was that in the "Product Monograph"? LOL.
F**k the stupid product monogrpah, that doesnt mean jack sh*t so stop bringing that stupid thing up!. A bunch of bullshit if you ask me, well obviously its bullshit and tainted, it only takes somebody with half a brain to realize that. Only a true idiot would beleive that. Not one shred of facts in there.
Finesteride alone is a recipe for disaster, for athlete's. Im athletic aswell, and have always been muscular and ripped, and active.
Most of the people using finasteride are most likely fat asses or non athlete's i'll bet. Or at least not lean and not muscular.
My muscles are definetly more hard and vascular when not inhibiting DHT. My sex drive is also increased, and i am a lot more aroused and turned on by woman.
muaythai187,
I beleive that exess Estrogen and increased SHBG due to Finesteride caused you to have low Testosterone.
You "might" want to try using some Aromasin or Letrozole along with Finesteride, so you dont get exess estrogen.
It may or may not help with your other symptoms though, DHT has lots of benifits, and cant be duplicated just becuase your using a Aromatase Inhibitor.
Good luck either way!
BTW ive had similar experiences as you, as MANY others have aswell.
Good idea getting your blood work.
How do ya like that one Pondle? Was that in the "Product Monograph"? LOL.
F**k the stupid product monogrpah, that doesnt mean jack sh*t so stop bringing that stupid thing up!. A bunch of bullshit if you ask me, well obviously its bullshit and tainted, it only takes somebody with half a brain to realize that. Only a true idiot would beleive that. Not one shred of facts in there.
Finesteride alone is a recipe for disaster, for athlete's. Im athletic aswell, and have always been muscular and ripped, and active.
Most of the people using finasteride are most likely fat asses or non athlete's i'll bet. Or at least not lean and not muscular.
My muscles are definetly more hard and vascular when not inhibiting DHT. My sex drive is also increased, and i am a lot more aroused and turned on by woman.
muaythai187,
I beleive that exess Estrogen and increased SHBG due to Finesteride caused you to have low Testosterone.
You "might" want to try using some Aromasin or Letrozole along with Finesteride, so you dont get exess estrogen.
It may or may not help with your other symptoms though, DHT has lots of benifits, and cant be duplicated just becuase your using a Aromatase Inhibitor.
Good luck either way!
Stax,
Guys on forums claim a lot of things about the effects or potential effects of finasteride. We know there's no way of checking the accuracy and objectivity of self-reporting, especially on the internet.
I'm not offering a personal interpretation of individual cases. I'm not a doctor. What I'm interested in is the evidence base - case studies, research papers etc. The study evidence I posted earlier doesn't support your hypothesis -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/90/3/1502.pdf
And I've never seen any doctors say that finasteride causes weight gain - http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/09/11/f ... eight-gain
The product monograph is important for a range of reasons, one of which is that if finasteride 'causes' weight gain, Merck knew about that and didn't list it, they would leave themselves open to lawsuits. If you feel you've got good evidence that finasteride causes weight gain, why don't you sue them? Perhaps you could make a bit of money out of it.
A number of athletes are reported to have used finasteride, unfortunately finasteride is a banned substance in most sports!
Guys on forums claim a lot of things about the effects or potential effects of finasteride. We know there's no way of checking the accuracy and objectivity of self-reporting, especially on the internet.
I'm not offering a personal interpretation of individual cases. I'm not a doctor. What I'm interested in is the evidence base - case studies, research papers etc. The study evidence I posted earlier doesn't support your hypothesis -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/90/3/1502.pdf
And I've never seen any doctors say that finasteride causes weight gain - http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/09/11/f ... eight-gain
The product monograph is important for a range of reasons, one of which is that if finasteride 'causes' weight gain, Merck knew about that and didn't list it, they would leave themselves open to lawsuits. If you feel you've got good evidence that finasteride causes weight gain, why don't you sue them? Perhaps you could make a bit of money out of it.
A number of athletes are reported to have used finasteride, unfortunately finasteride is a banned substance in most sports!
stax
Experienced Member
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You;re an idiot, plan and simple, a troll.
Anybody with half a brain wont listen to anything you say.
We are "real world" people here that have nothing to gain or lose by telling the "truth" in our finasteride experience.
Like i said you a Merck salesman, and nobody gives a sh*t what you say or look for.
Your a loser, probabbly a fat *** old guy nerd, who does nothing all day.
People can see what i post, research the info and it will be backed up, and backed up by real users and facts, not Merck salesmen, or plain f**king retards like yourself.
Its obvious you have some other agenda, or like i said your the stupidest person on the planet.
Nobody is taking anything you say seriously, most people on here have a brain, and are not Merck salesmen.
Everybody is on to you, idiot.
Anybody with half a brain wont listen to anything you say.
We are "real world" people here that have nothing to gain or lose by telling the "truth" in our finasteride experience.
Like i said you a Merck salesman, and nobody gives a sh*t what you say or look for.
Your a loser, probabbly a fat *** old guy nerd, who does nothing all day.
People can see what i post, research the info and it will be backed up, and backed up by real users and facts, not Merck salesmen, or plain f**king retards like yourself.
Its obvious you have some other agenda, or like i said your the stupidest person on the planet.
Nobody is taking anything you say seriously, most people on here have a brain, and are not Merck salesmen.
Everybody is on to you, idiot.
Fine if you don't agree with me, but it's silly and immature to resort to insults like "troll", "loser", "idiot", "fat ***", "retard", "douchebag" and "moron" :shakehead: I've always treated you with respect and don't see the point in flame wars.
Many of the senior posters have posted similar views and interpretations to those I've stated in this and other threads, they are hardly new or incredible. Unfortunately people like Michael Barry, Bryan and DocJ don't post in this sub-forum very often.
If you don't want to read any of my comments in future, add me to your ignore list. I've done the same to you.
Many of the senior posters have posted similar views and interpretations to those I've stated in this and other threads, they are hardly new or incredible. Unfortunately people like Michael Barry, Bryan and DocJ don't post in this sub-forum very often.
If you don't want to read any of my comments in future, add me to your ignore list. I've done the same to you.
stax
Experienced Member
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- 4
Blah Blah Blah Merck troll, you flood the board with mis information and bullshit.
Like i said nobody with half a brain would listen to you anyways fatty.
More and more people post their side effects from finasteride, and all correlate with the FACTS ive posted, aswell as my experiences.
You dont deserve any respect, your a f*****g goof.
Keep taking your meds and trusting what these drug company salesman say, your an idiot and i definetly think your a salesman, because many drugs have been pulled off the market, so that goes to show you how trustworthy their "product monograph" data is, you stupid idiot.
Oh, please dont ignore me, you little pussy pansy! Cant handle the heat? Nerd. Little girl.
Somebody needs to slap you in your stupid head, troll.
TROLL.
Like i said nobody with half a brain would listen to you anyways fatty.
More and more people post their side effects from finasteride, and all correlate with the FACTS ive posted, aswell as my experiences.
You dont deserve any respect, your a f*****g goof.
Keep taking your meds and trusting what these drug company salesman say, your an idiot and i definetly think your a salesman, because many drugs have been pulled off the market, so that goes to show you how trustworthy their "product monograph" data is, you stupid idiot.
Oh, please dont ignore me, you little pussy pansy! Cant handle the heat? Nerd. Little girl.
Somebody needs to slap you in your stupid head, troll.
TROLL.
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